Pakistan-India Conflict 2025: News Updates and Discussion

[Maarkhoor]

 

[Areesh]

Just watched indian airforce documentary "The last salute" on netflix about mig21s and their service in iaf

It takes real shamelessness to make a documentary on an aircraft that has killed around 200 of your own pilots in 6 decades but then since it is indian airforce so it isn't surprising

 

[Ali_Baba]

Just watched indian airforce documentary "The last salute" on netflix about mig21s and their service in iaf

It takes real shamelessness to make a documentary on an aircraft that has killed around 200 of your own pilots in 6 decades but then since it is indian airforce so it isn't surprising

I am surprised you wasted your brain cells on that junk..

 

[Maarkhoor]

I am surprised you wasted your brain cells on that junk..

I lost the link where IAF air Marshal while describing SU-30 MKI Hawai Ghunda but for last decade this Ghunda proved a white elephant even IAF cancelled proposed two SQD of these jets.

 

[Maarkhoor]

Pakistan develop its own multilayer defense system based on Chinese and Turkish systems.

Within one year we have develop our own multilayer system.

 

[Be dazzled]

iCMS 4 CFD Mirage 2000 IAF. We didn't lose it the wind brought it down saaar.

 

[TheThirdFaculty]

we need another squadron of J10Cs whens the delivery date yaara

 

[Maarkhoor]

we need another squadron of J10Cs whens the delivery date yaara

Its coming 36 more.

 

[ThoroughPro]

Just watched indian airforce documentary "The last salute" on netflix about mig21s and their service in iaf

It takes real shamelessness to make a documentary on an aircraft that has killed around 200 of your own pilots in 6 decades but then since it is indian airforce so it isn't surprising

You are wrong to blame the aircraft, it was not the MIG-21 that killed 200 pilots

 

[Oscar]

You are wrong to blame the aircraft, it was not the MIG-21 that killed 200 pilots

The Germans lost a lot of pilots to the F-104 - by using it for the wrong role and pushing pilots coming from slower aircraft. They lost some 300 of 900 jets so nearly 1/3rd of their fleet due to this and 112 pilots but they had this in earlier years with the type eventually matching average NATO loss rate.

India had similar mismatch - but in another way - they pushed a jet well past its expected service life and then used it to train nuggets which was also recipe for disaster so they lost nearly half of their 850 or so they had.. but higher pilot losses due to putting the least experienced in a very demanding aircraft and their losses peaked much later in service life.

The disaster that is the Tejas program cannot be understated - making fun of the fighter in its current engineless pigeon home state is one thing, but its failure as a program is what directly contributed to the 200 or so dead pilots and additional civillians.

Easy to blame pilots when you are taken from slow trainers and suddenly given a mach 2 unforgiving jet to learn fast flying from runways which are smaller than expected or has birds all over. Technically, India killed its own due to its bumbling bureaucracy and the IAF leaderships own dithering.

It took Dr Kalam to actually step in and rectify things - showing once again that just as +the missile program - it took a muslim to get India its most important gains, otherwise it was busy screwing itself.

 

[Be dazzled]

We need more AARs dearly.

 

[Be dazzled]

Flying supercomputers. Powerful mission computers enabling sensor fusion, voice command, advanced ew management and multimode jamming, near realtime purpose built datalink. Long range bvr. Aesa boasting 300km search and classified tracking range Jamming resisted comms. A pretty close analog to Rafale really.

Block 52s miss these features. Pro

 

[Yasser76]

The Germans lost a lot of pilots to the F-104 - by using it for the wrong role and pushing pilots coming from slower aircraft. They lost some 300 of 900 jets so nearly 1/3rd of their fleet due to this and 112 pilots but they had this in earlier years with the type eventually matching average NATO loss rate.

India had similar mismatch - but in another way - they pushed a jet well past its expected service life and then used it to train nuggets which was also recipe for disaster so they lost nearly half of their 850 or so they had.. but higher pilot losses due to putting the least experienced in a very demanding aircraft and their losses peaked much later in service life.

The disaster that is the Tejas program cannot be understated - making fun of the fighter in its current engineless pigeon home state is one thing, but its failure as a program is what directly contributed to the 200 or so dead pilots and additional civillians.

Easy to blame pilots when you are taken from slow trainers and suddenly given a mach 2 unforgiving jet to learn fast flying from runways which are smaller than expected or has birds all over. Technically, India killed its own due to its bumbling bureaucracy and the IAF leaderships own dithering.

It took Dr Kalam to actually step in and rectify things - showing once again that just as +the missile program - it took a muslim to get India its most important gains, otherwise it was busy screwing itself.

Spot on @Oscar This often gets lost when we talk about Tejas failure. Yes, we can sit and laugh that they have taken 20 years on a plane that will never enter full frontline service but it is the numbers it was supposed to provide which is the killer here, combined with no major MRCA order this really does hurt.

Tejas was suppossed to provide at least 9 Sqds of planes (180 aircraft) and MRCA another 6. They only get two Rafales Sqds (and thanks for the 15 sqd biys these are both now understrength!)

That os a deficit of 13 Sqds they now have to quickly find. Basically imagine PAF right now if JF-17 programme did not deliver one single frontline Sqd and we had no J-10Cs.
That is the very predicament IAF now finds itself in....