Pakistan-India Conflict 2025: News Updates and Discussion

[Vkdindian1]

Even if CM-400 didn't impact Cheeseboard directly, the impact and shrapnel would have damaged quite a bit of equipment, launchers, radar, C&C truck in the vicinity pretty much neutralizing the S-400 threat.

But these bhindians will never learn and hopefully their next bollywood scripted attack on Pakistan will be even bigger embarrassment.

Unlikely.

If your Saab can remain scratchless just a couple of meters in an enclosed space of a hangar, from a supersonic missile, why can’t Cheeseboard do the same.
That too in an open area?

Just saying.

 

[side-winder]

Unlikely.

If your Saab can remain scratchless just a couple of meters in an enclosed space of a hangar, from a supersonic missile, why can’t Cheeseboard do the same.
That too in an open area?

Just saying.

I believe - all the members here have acknowledged the damage to SAAB - nobody really said 'scratchless' - majority believes it minor - i don't believe it's minor as i have already highlighted somewhere earlier.

Me and Oscar highlighted same thing about S400. It went offline after PAF strikes and that allowed our fighters to operate with more freedom close to the LoC.

Hope this post below makes sense now after a tacit admission from indian side.

Post in thread '8 Pakistan Air Force Officers Awarded Sitara =e-Jurat Medals' https://defencepk.com/forums/thread...arded-sitara-e-jurat-medals.25963/post-884802

 

[Vkdindian1]

I believe - all the members here have acknowledged the damage to SAAB - nobody really said 'scratchless' - majority believes it minor - i don't believe it's minor as i have already highlighted somewhere earlier.

Me and Oscar highlighted same thing about S400. It went offline after PAF strikes and that allowed our fighters to operate with more freedom close to the LoC.

Hope this post below makes sense now after a tacit admission from indian side.

Post in thread '8 Pakistan Air Force Officers Awarded Sitara =e-Jurat Medals' https://defencepk.com/forums/thread...arded-sitara-e-jurat-medals.25963/post-884802

Just a little leg pulling.

The thread had turned too drab. So….

 

[Raja Porus]

Leaving the typical deniers aside - there was a way to see claims of PAF attacks in a certain form. Assuming the S-400 was only facing CM-400s with Jamming support.

First, assuming you have JF17 out of Shortkot - they can engage a S-400 at Adampur well into Pakistan airspace and still quite safe from the S-400. They launch 4 CM-400s.
View attachment 143672

The weapons can be detected and for good measure I added a Rafale as well but the first sensors are Indian ground radars and a MR-SAM I also added at Adampur.
View attachment 143671

Now, when the PAF does launch - notice something - the S-400 cannot engage. Two reasons, one is curvature but also there is NOT ENOUGH ILLUMINATION return to provide guidance.
View attachment 143670

Just as a FYI - if you have a Rafale in that area - it actually could engage the CM-400s with a meteor if so equipped much earlier than the S-400 could.
View attachment 143669

But, it isnt until past Tarn Taran that the S-400 can actually engage the weapons coming in.


View attachment 143668


I ran this scenario 5 times for good measure - and 4 out of the 5 times the S-400 even under jamming is able to eventually get all 4 CM-400s launched at it. Using 12-14 missiles in the process.

However , in one case it was unable to intercept with radar and missiles both under jamming by a DA-20 and the cheeseboard got taken out and the site was dead.
View attachment 143667

Oo this software and all the plans we made... Infact rmr I added both CM-400 strikes on S400 and MLRS on airbases

 

[Oscar]

Oo this software and all the plans we made... Infact rmr I added both CM-400 strikes on S400 and MLRS on airbases

There is a different scenario to consider now. It’s possible India uses similar tactics as Ukraine and aircraft serve purely in weapons and more importantly multi axis threat creation uses. Perhaps once they have astra or Rafale comes out again with Meteor put up a fight but their focus seems to be shifting to total SAM saturation.
This is going to create a lot of issues for PAF and more importantly Pakistan ADGE because it may give IaF brackets where they can do combination weapon launches of Lora or Rampage in coordination with ground launched brahmos to create multiple track solution problems and get @side-winder to sweat a little.

You could potentially force PAF to operate defensive over LoC and other areas - launch a multi pronged attack and keep a secondhand fighter package in depth but enough that its stand off range - and as soon as Pakistan AD comes online and your bizjet based and other elint assets pick it up launch a Lora or additional Brahmos attacks on AD engaging.

Sheer number of targets will have that Pakistan AD take a battering and then you’ve reduced force further and PAF fighters have to take up slack on additional defense sorties.

Now you have the chance to replicate what the Egyptians did in 73 by slowly pushing AD forward and look to push PAF back. Take the territory you need by simple overwhelming numbers and on the seaborne side throw everything you have to end the PN story.

Wont be a walk in the park but if they truly have an appetite for certain loss thresholds they can humble Pakistan in a very short time.

 

[PK781]

There is a different scenario to consider now. It’s possible India uses similar tactics as Ukraine and aircraft serve purely in weapons and more importantly multi axis threat creation uses. Perhaps once they have astra or Rafale comes out again with Meteor put up a fight but their focus seems to be shifting to total SAM saturation.
This is going to create a lot of issues for PAF and more importantly Pakistan ADGE because it may give IaF brackets where they can do combination weapon launches of Lora or Rampage in coordination with ground launched brahmos to create multiple track solution problems and get @side-winder to sweat a little.

You could potentially force PAF to operate defensive over LoC and other areas - launch a multi pronged attack and keep a secondhand fighter package in depth but enough that its stand off range - and as soon as Pakistan AD comes online and your bizjet based and other elint assets pick it up launch a Lora or additional Brahmos attacks on AD engaging.

Sheer number of targets will have that Pakistan AD take a battering and then you’ve reduced force further and PAF fighters have to take up slack on additional defense sorties.

Now you have the chance to replicate what the Egyptians did in 73 by slowly pushing AD forward and look to push PAF back. Take the territory you need by simple overwhelming numbers and on the seaborne side throw everything you have to end the PN story.

Wont be a walk in the park but if they truly have an appetite for certain loss thresholds they can humble Pakistan in a very short time.

it would take a lot for those duffers to accomplish this. A lot of balls required.
But if it does happen, means shit will accelerate real fast and will provoke deadly retaliations....

 

[Hayabusa]

Look at these dumbfucks who think that's the location to deploy a TPS77 radar. Among the towering hangars and trees offering perfect screening to the radiations of Radar and giving a blank area on scope.

4 months after the war still coming up with bullshit stories.

P.S i know exactly where TPS77 is deployed at Jacobabad.

To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.

Accept third party cookies

Thank you for the insights especially to us who are of non-military background. Looks like misinformation is no doubt rampant amongst the Indian community.

May you also provide your thoughts on this in light of new information coming out from them?

To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.

Accept third party cookies

 

[Oscar]

it would take a lot for those duffers to accomplish this. A lot of balls required.
But if it does happen, means shit will accelerate real fast and will provoke deadly retaliations....

You underestimate your enemy at your own peril.

 

[Hayabusa]

You underestimate your enemy at your own peril.

Agreed.

Which is why the creation of the Rocket Force Command is vital.

Truthfully, India has successfully blurred the use of strategic with conventional weapons that have delayed the use of our own capabilities reserved for strategic purposes.

Hopefully with the introduction of the command we are able to saturate India's defense within their bases.

 

[Faceless]

Truthfully, India has successfully blurred the use of strategic with conventional weapons that have delayed the use of our own capabilities reserved for strategic purposes.

You guys literally have a nuclear capable MLRS, I don't think you have a leg to stand on and lecture us about blurring lines.
Specially when it has been reiterated time and time again that Brahmos are not nuclear capable

Bravo BRAHMOS

www.brahmos.com

 

[Hayabusa]

You guys literally have a nuclear capable MLRS, I don't think you have a leg to stand on and lecture us about blurring lines.
Specially when it has been reiterated time and time again that Brahmos are not nuclear capable

Bravo BRAHMOS

www.brahmos.com

I don't lecture to Indians because they don't listen and prefer living in their fantasy land. So it's a waste of time.

First, your claim that we have a nuclear-capable MLRS is flat out wrong. You're likely confusing our systems with the Nasr tactical ballistic missile system, which is designed for a very specific deterrent purpose. Get your facts straight first.

Secondly, even if I were to accept your flimsy claim that it isn't nuclear capable (a claim no one here other than Indians and their official claims believe ), the missile itself is an escalatory weapon. After their Rafale jets were downed, it was India that deployed the BrahMos cruise missiles, escalating the conflict and proving they have no qualms escalating the situation in a conventional war they chose to start.

Thirdly, my post is to highlight the importance of our new Rocket Force Command for one reason and that is to enable us to make rapid, decisive actions in response to your country's escalations. If anything, I am actually highlighting the weakness in our conflict with India.

My point was about strategic decision-making, not about a specific weapon. I rather live in a universe where I question our military plans rather than chest-thumping on every single destruction. Stop nitpicking my post and taking them out of context.

 

[side-winder]

Thank you for the insights especially to us who are of non-military background. Looks like misinformation is no doubt rampant amongst the Indian community.

May you also provide your thoughts on this in light of new information coming out from them?

To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.

Accept third party cookies

This one is true - it was a building housing some power equipment. They intended to take out the electricity of Base however Shahbaz does not rely on single point of electricity failure.

 

[Hayabusa]

This one is true - it was a building housing some power equipment. They intended to take out the electricity of Base however Shahbaz does not rely on single point of electricity failure.

Thank you for the insights.

 

[Raja Porus]

There is a different scenario to consider now. It’s possible India uses similar tactics as Ukraine and aircraft serve purely in weapons and more importantly multi axis threat creation uses. Perhaps once they have astra or Rafale comes out again with Meteor put up a fight but their focus seems to be shifting to total SAM saturation.
This is going to create a lot of issues for PAF and more importantly Pakistan ADGE because it may give IaF brackets where they can do combination weapon launches of Lora or Rampage in coordination with ground launched brahmos to create multiple track solution problems and get @side-winder to sweat a little.

You could potentially force PAF to operate defensive over LoC and other areas - launch a multi pronged attack and keep a secondhand fighter package in depth but enough that its stand off range - and as soon as Pakistan AD comes online and your bizjet based and other elint assets pick it up launch a Lora or additional Brahmos attacks on AD engaging.

Sheer number of targets will have that Pakistan AD take a battering and then you’ve reduced force further and PAF fighters have to take up slack on additional defense sorties.

Now you have the chance to replicate what the Egyptians did in 73 by slowly pushing AD forward and look to push PAF back. Take the territory you need by simple overwhelming numbers and on the seaborne side throw everything you have to end the PN story.

Wont be a walk in the park but if they truly have an appetite for certain loss thresholds they can humble Pakistan in a very short time.

Yes exactly, this was a limited strike and still our AD seemed to be overstretched.... If next time Indians decide to level up with full complement of brahmos, loras, Rampage, rudrams, pralay, Nirbhay and and UCAVs our AD will be overwhelmed (appears to be a very bleak picture).
The only silver lining being that perhaps IAF won't venture into the 200km envelope giving us some reaction time.

Our options? Preemptive strikes against IAF bases, possible launch sites and brahmos storage sites in order to minimise the first wave or delay it; but taking into account the strategic outcomes and our a bit too "measured" response this time i believe it would neither be prudent nor realistic.
So our best chance is to absorb the first strike as best as possible, saving pur critical assets and then go no holds barred with decent decapitation strikes to achieve:

- escalation through de-escalation
- immediate foreign intervention
- reduce enemy's 2nd wave threat
- Damage/ threaten economic hubs

If we fail to achieve a quick knockout and India refuses international mediation then we are in for alot of trouble considering their geography and SU-30s taking off from east.
In reply we will have to push our CAPs into India but considering their extensive AD coverage it would be no easy task and will use up precious sorties for SEAD/DEAD. Answer - Drones, loitering, precise mlrs and Z10 with CM-502 for this purpose freeing PAF for OCA and few strikes on eastern bases with BMs just for show of force.
Even then with PAF frequently being called for PN support, this tiny force will be too overstretched(We still haven't counted CAS for PA) to maintain such a high tempo over sustained period.





5th gen before IAF might solve many of our problems.

 

[Vkdindian1]

This one is true - it was a building housing some power equipment. They intended to take out the electricity of Base however Shahbaz does not rely on single point of electricity failure.

There is a big array of cooling towers next to this building. What kind of power generation source would need this kind of cooling? Generators are kept in open or at best under sheds and don’t need any cooling systems like this one. It has to be some special equipment which needed such an industrial scale of cooling.

Secondly, the hole in the roof is a small one and there seems to be no damage to the building like that in Bholari. What could be the weapon? Could it be due to weapon failing to explode?

Your observation about multiple power sources for an air base are bang on.