Pakistan is getting dry

Then get off this "muh war prevention treaty" as if it was some goodwill you gave us. The treaty rests on the fact that both parties agree to uphold it and resolve disputes peacefully. Signing a treaty for water sharing then stabbing in the back trying to usurp territories? The treaty would've never been signed if it wasn't for the Nehru government and its bhaichara mentality. But what's done is done.

First and formemost this treaty is India's largessee. Get that into your head, we didn't have to sign a treaty at all, but we did, we paid over 150 million dollars on top of that so that you can have a new canal system when we stop eastern rivers. The treaty survived wars you started again it shouldn't have.
On top of that close to 1 billion was given to you by various governments (incl our 170 mil) and international agencies to build this new canal system and Mangla-Tarbela dams.

The total absolute control of the eastern rivers happened less than a decade ago btw.

Can you blame them? After decades of deception, wars, terrorism you think we are all planning to be best friends? Always remember, absolutely no Indian ever wish anything good for Pakistan. We don't like you, you don't like us and every action Indian state takes is to undermine you at every turn possible. It shouldn't come as a surprise when you yourself consider India as your enemy. Enemies do what enemies do, there are no righteous enemies.

Back at you, IWT would've been still there if you learnt to live as a civilized neighbour. But no, you want Kashmir, when you couldn't win it in a fair fight, you want to bleed India by thousand cuts. India is not even planning to cut water supply, but exploit your complicacy in not building enough reservoirs and canals. But that's today, the ball is in your court, do you want to dismantle old ways? You can have your treaty, remember the treaty is not dusted yet only in abeyance. Next major militant attack in Kashmir the treaty is done for good.
Where in the IWT is it stipulated that conflict between India and Pakistan renders the terms null and void or that one party may unilaterally declare the treaty null and void?

These terms were agreed to by your democratically elected representatives. The moneys spent by Hindustan at the onset have done nothing charitable for Pakistan. On the contrary, these moneys have facilitated Indian control over the eastern rivers, as per the treaty's terms.

The IWT is also not your "largesse", contrary to whatever mythologies you sing yourself to sleep with. What kind of statement even is this? Have you been learning to speak with your own set of laser eyes borrowed from the Jaishankar school of diplomacy?

In 1948, Hindustan halted water ingress into Pakistani Punjab, as a hostile act. The IWT was deemed necessary as a consequence of this act to limit your species' natural inclination towards genocidal acts against civilians and livestock. The World Bank brokered this treaty as a means to mitigate potential harm applied from Hindustan towards Pakistani civilians and their livelihoods. It was signed and ratified accordingly. You didn't complain at the time. What "suits" India now doesn't matter. What matters is the terms of the treaty.

Alternatively, are you suggesting you were somehow deceived at the point of signing?

Have you taken up this concern via the appropriate channels, as specified in the treaty itself?

I understand that the Permanent Court of Arbitration based at The Hague, Netherlands, can be approached in this regard. Alternatively, the World Bank itself should be considered a viable route for further negotiation, as a co-signatory and the named broker of this agreement. Has either option been availed?
 
Bilateral and Multilateral treaties after World War 2 where one or more participant has withdrawn.

The INF Treaty (1987): The Intermediate-Range Nuclear Forces Treaty was an arms control agreement between the US and the Soviet Union (later Russia) that banned all nuclear and conventional ground-launched ballistic and cruise missiles with ranges of 500 to 5,500 kilometers. The United States formally withdrew in 2019, citing ongoing covert testing and deployment of a banned missile (the SSC-8) by Russia.

The Budapest Memorandum (1994): Russia, the US, and the UK provided security assurances to Ukraine, Belarus, and Kazakhstan to facilitate their removal of Soviet-era nuclear weapons. The guarantees included commitments to refrain from the threat or use of force against the territorial integrity of Ukraine. The annexation of Crimea in 2014 and the subsequent 2022 invasion are widely recognized violations of these commitments.

The Anti-Ballistic Missile (ABM) Treaty was a 1972 arms control agreement between the United States and the Soviet Union. It limited each nation to one deployment area for anti-ballistic missiles.
The United States officially withdrew from the Anti-Ballistic Missile Treaty on June 13, 2002

The Paris Agreement (2015): A landmark United Nations framework treaty on climate change adopted by 196 parties to limit global warming. The United States announced its withdrawal from the accord in 2019.

The Iran Nuclear Deal / JCPOA (2015): The Joint Comprehensive Plan of Action was designed to limit Iran’s nuclear program in exchange for the lifting of economic sanctions. The United States unilaterally withdrew from the agreement in 2018 and re-imposed sanctions.
 
Bilateral and Multilateral treaties after World War 2 where one or more participant has withdrawn.

The INF Treaty (1987): The Intermediate-Range Nuclear Forces Treaty was an arms control agreement between the US and the Soviet Union (later Russia) that banned all nuclear and conventional ground-launched ballistic and cruise missiles with ranges of 500 to 5,500 kilometers. The United States formally withdrew in 2019, citing ongoing covert testing and deployment of a banned missile (the SSC-8) by Russia.

The Budapest Memorandum (1994): Russia, the US, and the UK provided security assurances to Ukraine, Belarus, and Kazakhstan to facilitate their removal of Soviet-era nuclear weapons. The guarantees included commitments to refrain from the threat or use of force against the territorial integrity of Ukraine. The annexation of Crimea in 2014 and the subsequent 2022 invasion are widely recognized violations of these commitments.

The Anti-Ballistic Missile (ABM) Treaty was a 1972 arms control agreement between the United States and the Soviet Union. It limited each nation to one deployment area for anti-ballistic missiles.
The United States officially withdrew from the Anti-Ballistic Missile Treaty on June 13, 2002

The Paris Agreement (2015): A landmark United Nations framework treaty on climate change adopted by 196 parties to limit global warming. The United States announced its withdrawal from the accord in 2019.

The Iran Nuclear Deal / JCPOA (2015): The Joint Comprehensive Plan of Action was designed to limit Iran’s nuclear program in exchange for the lifting of economic sanctions. The United States unilaterally withdrew from the agreement in 2018 and re-imposed sanctions.
And The Secular Republic of India is now on a level with USA or USSR that it may "withdraw" from a treaty?

Why are you so concerned over this issue that you need to keep "justifying" your position?

Just be very clear and proud that India broke this treaty. We are similarly satisfied that we did not break the terms.

Breach of a treaty by your kind is probably to be expected anyway. Indeed, it is regarded as par for the course. Pakistan is fully cognisant that agreements with Hindustan are not worth the paper they are written on. Many warned of this reality of the Hindu majoritarian state, including Churchill, oddly enough.
 
And The Secular Republic of India is now on a level with USA or USSR that it may "withdraw" from a treaty?

Why are you so concerned over this issue that you need to keep "justifying" your position?

Just be very clear and proud that India broke this treaty. We are similarly satisfied that we did not break the terms.

Breach of a treaty by your kind is probably to be expected anyway. Indeed, it is regarded as par for the course. Pakistan is fully cognisant that agreements with Hindustan are not worth the paper they are written on. Many warned of this reality of the Hindu majoritarian state, including Churchill, oddly enough.

Firstly Pakistan can not break the Indus Water Treaty. As Pakistan has no contribution to the treaty, as well as Pakistan has no restrictions imposed by this treaty.

IW treaty imposes restrictions on India's in use of Indus waters and not Pakistan.

Secondly could you advise exactly what "level needs to be achieved" for a country to be able to legally withdraw from a treaty?
 
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Where in the IWT is it stipulated that conflict between India and Pakistan renders the terms null and void or that one party may unilaterally declare the treaty null and void?
Every treaty goes out of the window when we are threatened with war. At least it should have. When people boast how this treaty survived wars, I cringe. It shouldn't have. Finally someone put the treaty in Abeyance something Indian leadership should've done long back.
These terms were agreed to by your democratically elected representatives. The moneys spent by Hindustan at the onset have done nothing charitable for Pakistan. On the contrary, these moneys have facilitated Indian control over the eastern rivers, as per the treaty's terms.
Something we deeply regret. The money was given in installment to Pakistan state (even during 1965) was in fact as part of the agreement for a treaty that shouldn't have existed in the first place. No country has such water sharing agreement especially when the other is an enemy.
The IWT is also not your "largesse", contrary to whatever mythologies you sing yourself to sleep with. What kind of statement even is this? Have you been learning to speak with your own set of laser eyes borrowed from the Jaishankar school of diplomacy?
Blah blah blah. Give me one good reason we should've signed this bumfuck water sharing treaty? What did we gain?
In 1948, Hindustan halted water ingress into Pakistani Punjab, as a hostile act. The IWT was deemed necessary as a consequence of this act to limit your species' natural inclination towards genocidal acts against civilians and livestock. The World Bank brokered this treaty as a means to mitigate potential harm applied from Hindustan towards Pakistani civilians and their livelihoods. It was signed and ratified accordingly. You didn't complain at the time. What "suits" India now doesn't matter. What matters is the terms of the treaty.
We simply activated our canal systems in the river that's already there to control the eastern rivers in 1948. Buyers regret is not our problem. Inherited bunch of arid land and rocky mountains from India but gib water.

You know what I would've done if I were Pakistan, after signing IWT getting 80% of share of water, I would shut up make peace with India, enjoy good agriculture, build more dams, hydropower plants, store that 80% of the water I got from my neighbour. But no, I got greedy, I got water now I want the land the water flowing through. Never learning a lesson, decides to do the tried and tested Afghan Muj vs Soviet theory in India, make neighbours midows a valley of death, not enough decide to send my soldiers cosplaying as "freedom" fighters, losses, send my people to attack neighbour's cities kill them in hundreds celebrate it. And now I wonder why my neighbour decides to withhold the treaty that gave me 80% of the water.

And you're telling me we have genocidal mentality towards you?
Alternatively, are you suggesting you were somehow deceived at the point of signing?
Not at all, I'm saying Indian leaders were not smart enough to see through the treachery. This treaty is basically India giving x amount of water and y amount of money in return for a peace of mind which we didn't get lmao.
Have you taken up this concern via the appropriate channels, as specified in the treaty itself?
Yeah, this is the appropriate channel. Face to face. I hope India bargains something big for getting the treaty back.
I understand that the Permanent Court of Arbitration based at The Hague, Netherlands, can be approached in this regard. Alternatively, the World Bank itself should be considered a viable route for further negotiation, as a co-signatory and the named broker of this agreement. Has either option been availed?
Why? India does not accept Hague court as a arbitrator, besides there is nothing to argue about. This is us withholding the treaty because of your actions, it's you who can change things. If I were negotiating this, I would ask for the LOC to be border in return for IWT. But I'm hopelessly optimistic.
 
Firstly Pakistan can not break the Indus Water Treaty. As Pakistan has no contribution to the treaty, as well as Pakistan has no restrictions imposed by this treaty.

IW treaty imposes restrictions on India's in use of Indus waters and not Pakistan.

Secondly could you advise exactly what "level needs to achieved" for a country to be able to legally withdraw from a treaty?
Of course Pakistan has the potential to "break" the treaty. Perhaps you ought to read it and its various stipulations.

Here are some examples for your perusal: we could refuse to share data with India. We could refuse to notify you of engineering works. We could refuse to submit annual reports from our commissioner to yours.

Does India believe that Pakistan has violated the terms of the IWT?

This would be a serious matter and should be escalated appropriately.
 
Every treaty goes out of the window when we are threatened with war.
Why not in 1965 or 1971, when war was not merely threatened but active? Could it be that this treaty was designed to nullify the risk of weaponisation of water by India during wartime (or even during peacetime, as illustrated by the events of April 1948)?

Something we deeply regret. The money was given in installment to Pakistan state (even during 1965) was in fact as part of the agreement for a treaty that shouldn't have existed in the first place. No country has such water sharing agreement especially when the other is an enemy.
We don't care about your "regrets", deep or otherwise. Please speak to me about the terms of the treaty itself or not at all. Do Indians have any cognisance of contractual law?

Blah blah blah. Give me one good reason we should've signed this bumfuck water sharing treaty? What did we gain?
Similarly to your regrets, we don't care about your "gains". Did you sign the treaty or not? Did you object to its terms at the time if you had genuine "regrets"?

We simply activated our canal systems in the river that's already there to control the eastern rivers in 1948. Buyers regret is not our problem. Inherited bunch of arid land and rocky mountains from India but gib water.
We don't care what mechanism was deployed by you to initiate water based aggression. It was aggression, and hence the treaty was required.

Not at all, I'm saying Indian leaders were not smart enough to see through the treachery.

IQ and/or cognitive abilities of Indian parties to the treaty ratification process are not my concern. If there was concern over their capacity to rationally assess the proposed terms, this should have been raised with a medical professional at the time and a "compus mentis" party should have been sent in their place.

Yeah, this is the appropriate channel. Face to face.

Partially true but incomplete. As per the terms of the Treaty itself, if face to face dispute resolution between the Indus Commissioners of the two parties is not possible, there are two further steps that must be taken for arbitration (a neutral expert agreed upon either by the disputing parties or by the world bank; then an internationally recognised court of arbitration).

Why? India does not accept Hague court as a arbitrator,
India is bound by the terms of the Treaty, regardless of whether India "accepts" The Hague PCA or not.

Again, your are misunderstanding simple contractual law repeatedly throughout your monologue.

Your opinions, feelings, emotions, acceptance or refusal are all irrelevant. You either adhere to the stipulated terms or you break the contract.
 
Of course Pakistan has the potential to "break" the treaty. Perhaps you ought to read it and its various stipulations.

Here are some examples for your perusal: we could refuse to share data with India. We could refuse to notify you of engineering works. We could refuse to submit annual reports from our commissioner to yours.

Does India believe that Pakistan has violated the terms of the IWT?

This would be a serious matter and should be escalated appropriately.
What data will you share regarding Indus Waters? How much water have you wasted to the sea?

You are building Daimer Bhasha dam on Indus with China, which India has been protesting.

Did you share its data with India. Did you invite India Indus water commission to inspect the dam?

You did not, because treaty only imposes restrictions on India and none on Pakistan.

Pakistan has no obligations as per the treaty only India does.

It was far too generous a treaty, which India upheld for 65 years, through the wars and terror, most of which Pakistan imposed on India.

No other country, no where in the world has signed such a generous water sharing treaty even with their friends, much less their foes.

I am glad it is gone.
 
The Indus Water Treaty is Gone Forever.But I don't think India despite the rhetoric has intent nor Means to Stop Water in Any Meaningful Way.May be it will use some More water but that will take time.India Really does not need to do anything the way Pakistan is in quagmire of internal and external problems in all provinces.May be in future when Pakistan becomes a democracy where civilian govt has power which is decades away then they can negotiate the terms again of a new treaty.
 
The Indus Water Treaty is Gone Forever.But I don't think India despite the rhetoric has intent nor Means to Stop Water in Any Meaningful Way.May be it will use some More water but that will take time.India Really does not need to do anything the way Pakistan is in quagmire of internal and external problems in all provinces.May be in future when Pakistan becomes a democracy where civilian govt has power which is decades away then they can negotiate the terms again of a new treaty.

India will not be allowed to build tunnel on Chenab.

The treaty was simple. India couldn't take much water from 3 western rivers so they were happy to take full control of 3 eastern rivers.

Now they can't just have full control on 3 eastern rivers and plan to steal water from 3 western rivers. World will side with Pakistan and if that doesn't deter India then nukes will.
 
The Indus Water Treaty is Gone Forever.But I don't think India despite the rhetoric has intent nor Means to Stop Water in Any Meaningful Way.May be it will use some More water but that will take time.India Really does not need to do anything the way Pakistan is in quagmire of internal and external problems in all provinces.May be in future when Pakistan becomes a democracy where civilian govt has power which is decades away then they can negotiate the terms again of a new treaty.
It is sad to see , They will not have civilian governmentc in future , there civilians are already walking dead , they dont trust the government. Only external threat is binding the unity between government and civilians just like iran ,
Current government knows it well so they are just trying to unite civilian against external threat so that people can trust them .
 
Water is still flowing. Couple of years ago who guys had your generals stating they would retake Kashmir. Nothing happened.
As usual, all talk, why not post when something does happen, as opposed to reminding us of your wet dreams again and again and again

All he does is post words that mean nothing, partly to try and convince himself them India is capable of standing up to Pakistan, partly to troll us.
Hew is failing on both counts but fun winding him up
"Treaty not valid saar!"
But then they do nothing...

I have not been following this thread much. From browsing Pakistan's channels, it doesn't seem like Pakistanis are too worried about it. The drastic solution per Pakistanis would be to literally blow up any Indian infra which would impact the amount of water Pakistan should get. One Pakistani analyst even saying that Pakistan and India should renegotiate the IWT based on Climate Change factors to come to better solutions.
Also saw a video today of Danish experts with Pakistani experts about using the increasing flooding in Pakistan to mitigate the water stress facing Pakistan.

As to the Indians here chest thumping about diverting the water to India's Rajasthan: Shame on you for being apparently so educated and obviously so cruel. I hope you don't represent the majority of India. You are barely functioning, overpopulated nation and that's why what to steal Pakistan's water. So much like the Israelis' Lebensraum!
 

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