Pakistan Missiles - Updates, News & Discussion

[Corax]

( May be completely wrong but would like to kmow the views of the members on this thread . )

A grim portent ! :
Strategic think tanks in India have considered the possibility of a single massive decapitating nuclear strike on Pakistan with hundreds of warheads .
From the Indian perspective based on the May 2025 conflict experience the operation appears feasible with no major consequences for India. It will be a "one way " street.
The success of this potential strike is ensured by the weaknesses exposed during the May 2025 conflict :

• Pakistan has limited and ineffective anti-missile defenses Most Brahmos missiles were not intercepted and a swarm of nuclear tipped missiles will wreak complete devastation.
• Pakistan has limited and ineffective missile attack warning systems. Pakistan has no effective missile launch detection, tracking and warning system in place. Neither the impending attacks on the mosques and schools on May 6th-7th nor the attacks on the air bases on May 9th-10th were detected until the actual impacts. So the retaliatory "launch on detect " option appears unrealistic.
• Pakistan has no nuclear attack proof hardened command and control center with the top military and civilian leadership still residing and operating out of home offices in colonial legacy style sprawling bungalows. Even the GHQ buildings are normal commercial buildings that can be taken out by conventional missiles alone.
• Pakistan has no camouflage, masking, or cover capability that conceals the whereabouts of the critical decision making centers, 100% of Pakistani territory is under enemy satellite high resolution optical surveillance. This was evident during the release of high resolution pictures of missile impacts on Pakistani air bases,
• Electronic surveillance, There is a strong possibility that communications in Pakistan are compromised and the whereabouts of the top military and civilian leadership are known and tracked by the enemy. Media appearances on live television easily give away the locations of top military and civilian personnel
• Civil defense: There is no evidence of any civil defense procedures such as safe shelters, bunkers that the top military or civilian leadership can retreat to . There has never been any fire drill or missile warning exercise of the National Assembly or Senate while in session and one strike could decapitate the leadership. Worse there is no back up chain of command even if there are survivors after the nuclear attack.
• Pakistan has no backup airborne command and control systems such as the "doomsday jets " that are used by the USA and Russia. In any case the warning time even if available, is too short for any sort of airborne C3 platform to take off.

Even if Pakistan manages to strike back with nukes, it doesn't have second strike capability, while india does with its nuclear submarines.

 

[abdulbarijan]

Even if Pakistan manages to strike back with nukes, it doesn't have second strike capability, while india does with its nuclear submarines.

Negative, a variant of Babur is stated to be a nuclear capable submarine launched cruise missile i.e. Pakistan does indeed have second strike capability

 

[Corax]

Negative, a variant of Babur is stated to be a nuclear capable submarine launched cruise missile i.e. Pakistan does indeed have second strike capability

I wouldn't call that credible, the sub-launched babur only has a range of around 500km and it's a cruise missile, too slow and easily intercepted for a credible second strike capability.

 

[rafale]

I wouldn't call that credible, the sub-launched babur only has a range of around 500km and it's a cruise missile, too slow and easily intercepted for a credible second strike capability.

The sea skimming ability, which i believe it would have, would make it extremely difficult to track considering you would need to track the submarine first............Pakistan is going for Hangors......8 of them.........what that means is that couple of them would be placed strategically in silent absolute slow moving mode as near as india coast to make the second strike success if needed.

 

[Rational Philosopher]

I am comparing a strike vector with a strike vector the target doesn't care if it gets hit by a cruise or ballistic missile

Air defence saturation by different flight profiles is a thing. That's why both air launched cruise and ballistic missiles exist at the same time to begin with.

 

[NA71]

Even if Pakistan manages to strike back with nukes, it doesn't have second strike capability, while india does with its nuclear submarines.

Who said ?

 

[abdulbarijan]

I wouldn't call that credible, the sub-launched babur only has a range of around 500km and it's a cruise missile, too slow and easily intercepted for a credible second strike capability.

1. Do you really think both countries would have any semblance of a credible air defense by the time things turned nuclear?
2. Do you think India has an iron dome -esque AD which protects virtually the country in its entirety?
3. Do you think it really matters from the POV of a responding nation in a nuclear exchange --- where exactly the nuke lands, as long as it does so successfully in enemy territory ?
4. Do you really think that sea is the only means of a valid second strike capability? cuz Iran certainly believes and has demonstrated that there are more than one ways to skin a cat in terms of this second strike capability equation.
5. Lastly, this whole oversimplified notion of Subsonic = easily intercept-able's gotta go. Look up the effectiveness of SCALP in the recent exchange, how the Ukranians used the Neptune in strikes against the Russians, how the Americans still to this day field the Tomahawks. Stealthy subsonic terrain huggers ARE a PROBLEM especially when your target can't physically protect all its land mass and will always have openings for you to strike through.

 

[Alex]

Even if Pakistan manages to strike back with nukes, it doesn't have second strike capability, while india does with its nuclear submarines.

I think, if I am not wrong, Pakistan also has this capability of a second strike after the induction of new Chinese Hangor-class submarines. The can fire nuclear-capable Babur III missiles.
For a nuclear strike, it is not necessary that you have to have a nuclear-powered submarine. That is just the fuel consumption to run the engine of the submarine. AIP featured Hangor, which is a good selection and potent vector.

 

[Corax]

I think, if I am not wrong, Pakistan also has this capability of a second strike after the induction of new Chinese Hangor-class submarines. The can fire nuclear-capable Babur III missiles.
For a nuclear strike, it is not necessary that you have to have a nuclear-powered submarine. That is just the fuel consumption to run the engine of the submarine. AIP featured Hangor, which is a good selection and potent vector.

It's not about the sub platform, it's about the second strike weapon. Sea-based second strike weapons need long legs due to constrained operational regimen.

 

[Alex]

It's not about the sub platform, it's about the second strike weapon. Sea-based second strike weapons need long legs due to constrained operational regimen.

I mentioned Babur III. They are capable of being launched from a submarine. Pakistan does have a second strike capability, certainly.

 

[Corax]

I mentioned Babur III. They are capable of being launched from a submarine. Pakistan does have a second strike capability, certainly.

Theoretically yes, but it's severely limited to a constrained vector parameter due to it's range and the fact it's a subsonic CM.

 

[Alex]

Theoretically yes, but it's severely limited to a constrained vector parameter due to it's range and the fact it's a subsonic CM.

Ok, so it is not the submarine launch but the range and capabilities of Babur III missiles you are worried about. In that case, Pakistan can either develop a new hypersonic missile or have it supplied by the Chinese. I am sure if there would be a need, those missiles would be very quickly procured by Pakistan. All it takes is one flight from China to Pakistan.

 

[Corax]

Ok, so it is not the submarine launch but the range and capabilities of Babur III missiles you are worried about. In that case, Pakistan can either develop a new hypersonic missile or have it supplied by the Chinese. I am sure if there would be a need, those missiles would be very quickly procured by Pakistan. All it takes is one flight from China to Pakistan.

Exactly, it's the missile itself, approx 500km subsonic limits what you can do in terms of launch parameters and constrains the operational flexibility of the launch platform. A hypersonic alternative with significantly more range gives you a lot more options and flexibility in terms of operations and potential launch parameters, improving the survivability and hence strengthening the credibility of the second strike.

 

[Liquidator]

Theoretically yes, but it's severely limited to a constrained vector parameter due to it's range and the fact it's a subsonic CM.

It's about deterrence.

When we discuss second strike scenarios, it denotes that your enemy has gone all out. This in itself can't really apply to India vs Pakistan as the fallout will have repercussions for India....unless of course India is foolish enough to do that (might be the case).

If that happened, the Indians then need to calculate the RISK of a SLCM reaching Indian cities. Is it worth the RISK?

These are cold war concepts we are assuming also apply to India vs Pakistan however it is more nuanced than that.

 

[Corax]

It's about deterrence.

When we discuss second strike scenarios, it denotes that your enemy has gone all out. This in itself can't really apply to India vs Pakistan as the fallout will have repercussions for India....unless of course India is foolish enough to do that (might be the case).

If that happened, the Indians then need to calculate the RISK of a SLCM reaching Indian cities. Is it worth the RISK?

These are cold war concepts we are assuming also apply to India vs Pakistan however it is more nuanced than that.

I don't doubt what you said, that's not what I was referring to. Deterrence needs credibility, and a credible second strike.