Pakistan Missiles - Updates, News & Discussion

[Ali_Baba]

In the future perhaps, they do cost a lot. Right now we absolutely need to work on our missile technology which is behind. Supersonic cruise missiles and HGVs, a modern tactical SSM family, and our strategic missiles need credible MIRVs with more advanced solid-fuel tech, wider diameter.

I am not sure what value there is in MIRV for a conventional conflict ? It can be easily misinterpreted for a nuclear attack, so there will be restraints on its usage. Therefore its value is limited relative to the cost required for the capability for an India-Pakistan scenario.

Iran can work in that direction as it has no nuclear capability, therefore its missiles cannot be misinterpreted as a nuclear attack. Pakistan does not have that luxury, therefore there is no value in exploring MIRV technology for ballistic missiles.

 

[Rational Philosopher]

I am not sure what value there is in MIRV for a conventional conflict ? It can be easily misinterpreted for a nuclear attack, so there will be restraints on its usage. Therefore its value is limited relative to the cost required for the capability for an India-Pakistan scenario.

Iran can work in that direction as it has no nuclear capability, therefore its missiles cannot be misinterpreted as a nuclear attack. Pakistan does not have that luxury, therefore there is no value in exploring MIRV technology for ballistic missiles.

MIRV is for our long-range strategic deterrence, to make them survivable. IMO it is needed otherwise your nuclear delivery becomes weak.

But conventionally you need supersonic/hypersonic cruise missiles, as well as HGV ballistic missiles. High degree of maneuverability and accuracy is needed to penetrate air defence and hit targets.

Solid-feul tech advancement is needed for range and more aerodynamically sleek designs.

 

[Ali_Baba]

MIRV is for our long-range strategic deterrence, to make them survivable. IMO it is needed otherwise your nuclear delivery becomes weak.

Honestly, I don't think Pakistan needs anymore than it has currently (imho) given Pakistan limited military expenditure. There are more pressing needs that MIRV. Pakistan can as of now take out New Delhi, Mumbai and a few more Indian capital cities with what it has, and that is all that is required.

Pakistan has a small amount of money it can spend on development projects and new procurements compared to India. It has to get the most bang for its buck. I guess the Armed forces now need to make some decisions on where it will invest its money given what it has learnt in the 100hr war and what its priorities are going forward.

The shopping list people have suggested here interms of improvements far exceed Pakistan financial resources, so they will need to order by priority and take what they can.

 

[falcon34]

The options for long range strikes were not an issue but the restraint the forces showed was, Majority of the missiles fired were F1s,
A few volleys of F2.
Whilst F3&4 waren't,
Meanwhile this an alleged vid of F2 bypassing Indian defences

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[Rational Philosopher]

Honestly, I don't think Pakistan needs anymore than it has currently (imho) given Pakistan limited military expenditure. There are more pressing needs that MIRV. Pakistan can as of now take out New Delhi, Mumbai and a few more Indian capital cities with what it has, and that is all that is required.

Pakistan has a small amount of money it can spend on development projects and new procurements compared to India. It has to get the most bang for its buck. I guess the Armed forces now need to make some decisions on where it will invest its money given what it has learnt in the 100hr war and what its priorities are going forward.

The shopping list people have suggested here interms of improvements far exceed Pakistan financial resources, so they will need to order by priority and take what they can.

Of course I agree with your assessment on the limited R&D military expenditure available to us, but air defence systems in recent times are becoming more advanced. As of now, and especially in the future, I do think India has a strong chance of intercepting our current missiles. S-400 will be old news in a decades time.

 

[Rational Philosopher]

The options for long range strikes were not an issue but the restraint the forces showed was, Majority of the missiles fired were F1s,
A few volleys of F2.
Whilst F3&4 waren't,
Meanwhile this an alleged vid of F2 bypassing Indian defences

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Are you sure that isn't the CM-400AKG? Though I think Fatah-2 and CM-400AKG likely perform similarly, just one is air launched.

 

[FuturePAF]

If this conflict has taught us something, it's that Pakistan needs more conventional tactical missiles — both cruise & ballistic.

We needed a true supersonic cruise capable long-range one to reliably hit targets deep into India. And look into highly manoeuvrable high-speed ballistics.

Also our strategic missiles need improving too.

Hypersonic cruise missiles that fly low and hypersonic gliders (endo and exo atmospheric) that can overcome any active or known in development systems.

 

[falcon34]

Are you sure that isn't the CM-400AKG? Though I think Fatah-2 and CM-400AKG likely perform similarly, just one is air launched.

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That is CM400

 

[FuturePAF]

1. No Supersonic Cruise Missile Capability

India operates the BrahMos, a Mach 2.8–3 capable cruise missile deployed on land, sea, and aircraft.

Pakistan relies on subsonic cruise missiles (Babur, Ra’ad), which are significantly slower and more vulnerable to interception.

Impact: Pakistan lacks a fast, hard-to-intercept precision strike option for high-value or time-sensitive targets.


2. No Hypersonic Weapons Program (Publicly Known)

India has tested the HSTDV (Hypersonic Technology Demonstrator Vehicle) and is developing BrahMos-II (Mach 7+).

No equivalent hypersonic glide vehicle (HGV) or cruise system has been revealed by Pakistan.

Impact: Falling behind in next-generation missile survivability and penetration capabilities against advanced air defenses.


3. No Operational MIRV Deployment

India is field-testing MIRVs (Multiple Independently Targetable Reentry Vehicles) on Agni-P and Agni-V.

Pakistan has revealed the Ababeel missile as MIRV-capable, but it’s still undergoing tests with no deployment confirmed.

Impact: Reduced warhead delivery efficiency and penetrative capability versus India’s maturing counterforce potential.


4. No Large Solid-Fuel IRBM/SLV-Class Missile

India has developed large-diameter solid-fuel missiles like Agni-IV/V/VI and the GSLV/PSLV for satellite and missile R&D.

Pakistan’s solid-fuel missile infrastructure is more limited in scale and payload capacity.

Impact: Technological gap in materials, propulsion, and dual-use space/missile capabilities that could impact missile versatility and range extension.


5. Extremely limited range of modern tactical missile options to use conventionally

Aside from the cruising BrahMos, India has an arsenal of tactical ballistic missiles with very high accuracy (CEP) and maneuverability (MaRV) like the Pralay series.

Pakistan's missile technology is more dated, with lesser maneuverability & accuracy and focused more on strategic nuclear roles. The Fatah series indicates a step in the right direction to remedy this.

Impact: Limits Pakistan’s ability to respond conventionally with the use of modern tactical battlefield missiles against India.


6. No Submarine-Launched Ballistic Missiles (SLBMs)

India has operational K-15 (750 km) and K-4 (3,500 km) SLBMs on Arihant-class SSBNs.

Pakistan’s Babur-III is a submarine-launched cruise missile (SLCM) with ~450 km range, launched from a diesel-electric sub, not an SSBN.

Impact: Pakistan lacks a credible second-strike capability based on survivable platforms like SSBNs with SLBMs.

7. No Nuclear-Powered Submarines (SSBNs/SSNs)

India has one operational nuclear-powered ballistic missile submarine (SSBN) and others under construction.

Pakistan operates diesel-electric submarines, with no publicly acknowledged nuclear sub program.

Impact: Limits survivability and endurance of Pakistan's underwater deterrent forces; cannot match India’s growing sea-based deterrent.

@FuturePAF @PakShaheen_79 @Great Mal @Bentley777

I would add underground complexes are now a must, after that attack on Nur Khan Air base (and the other bases) for command and control and more extensive underground facilities for the missile forces, Air Force, and the navy. (See my posts from a few months ago on what I think the navy needs, and China is the best at underground facilities (under mountains) for command and control as well as for the missile forces and Air Force). Even “simple” elevators (similar to what is on an aircraft carrier) under simple hangars, leading to a tunnel network under an air base could be enough to disperse assets under heightened tensions so they are less vulnerable to being destroyed on the ground. This elevator technique can also be used to hide mobile missile batteries and launchers.

 

[Rational Philosopher]

I would add underground complexes are now a must, after that attack on Nur Khan Air base (and the other bases) for command and control and more extensive underground facilities for the missile forces, Air Force, and the navy. (See my posts from a few months ago on what I think the navy needs, and China is the best at underground facilities (under mountains) for command and control as well as for the missile forces and Air Force). Even “simple” elevators under simple hangars, leading to a tunnel network under an air base could be enough to disperse assets under heightened tensions so they are less vulnerable to being destroyed on the ground.

I had opened a thread specifically for discussing this as I believed it warranted a separate thread but unfortunately it was closed. Squeezing everything into the post-war assessment thread imo is bad organisation.

Post in thread 'What's the feasibility of building mountainous and/or underground air & missile bases in Balochistan? How to better protect our critical assets?'

May 16, 2025

Irani bases are in/under granite mountains, a natural bunker, it is a very tough material. Very 70s james bond ones even lol

Pak must have some hidden storage, c&c + launch facilities

let your imagination run wild !

• Sharma Ji

• 

@Waz I would like to request Waz to re-open it, some high priority discussions should have their own threads, small talk can remain in the post-war thread.

 

[Great Mal]

Are you sure that isn't the CM-400AKG? Though I think Fatah-2 and CM-400AKG likely perform similarly, just one is air launched.

This video is from Israel not India-Pak conflict.

 

[Great Mal]

Before the confrontation with India, I was one of the few trying to highlight the importance of missile development in Pakistan. Everyone was asleep. Some members pointed out that money was an issue. I knew that the moment the Americans complained about Pakistan's intentions to develop long range and more powerful missiles, Pakistan had to push forward instead of giving in. Well, after the Indian attack everyone is suddenly wide awake. Unfortunately, it always takes something extreme to wake up Pakistanis.

Pakistan's survival depends on missile development. We need the best of the best. There should be zero compromise. This is not up for debate. Pakistan relies heavily on missiles to deter Hindustan.

Not to beat my own drum or anything but i've been advocating for longed range cruise missiles & ballistic missiles which Pakistan can mass produce before the Indians even got their Pralay conventional ballistic missile on the drawing board.

Pakistan is a thin country in terms of its width whilst we face a huge enemy both in numbers & land size. For dealing with such bullies you dont adopt a defensive lousy stance, you have to be proactive & always on top the military technological edge.

Indians have been inducting Harop drones since mid to late 2000s.

Pakistan needs to really up its think tank community at GHQ.

 

[FuturePAF]

Not to beat my own drum or anything but i've been advocating for longed range cruise missiles & ballistic missiles which Pakistan can mass produce before the Indians even got their Pralay conventional ballistic missile on the drawing board.

Pakistan is a thin country in terms of its width whilst we face a huge enemy both in numbers & land size. For dealing with such bullies you dont adopt a defensive lousy stance, you have to be proactive & always on top the military technological edge.

Indians have been inducting Harop drones since mid to late 2000s.

Pakistan needs to really up its think tank community at GHQ.

I don’t think they haven’t considered these many options. They had to prioritize capabilities within the budget given. They have made great choices for the budget they have, but if the economy can be grown at 7-8% a year, the budget can be doubled within a decade.

Considering how inefficient Pakistan does business, I honestly believe Pakistan can grow at over 10% annually for at least a decade. Remember China grew at 15.2% in 1984, when their industrial modernization was just getting started (after the reforms of 1978), when they were making up for their inefficiencies.

 

[Bentley777]

Recent conflict has shown when india will lose air battle it will likely want to make our air bases unoperational. Now it's a common sense we don't got much depth we have to fire 3x back to drag them again on air battle with PAF which suites to our advantage. As far as budget is concern pak is facing existential threat do anything use black market ask china or up taxes it must happen we are far behind in missile tech even iran is better. ITS a alarm bell and warning for us short conflict we might still have little room but full fledged war we will be in danger definitely. If india get superiority because of PAF having no where to land our faith will be like gaza such its the level of threat. We can only stop them if destroy their bases too by firing more back. we should take notes from iran. we should have mix of expensive and cost effective missiles. Expensive side will include supersonic and hypersonic missiles and low will include simple conventional ballistic missile. nuclear delivery system should be separated from conventional missiles . i hope GHQ have some common sense buying j35 will not be enough for next conflict.

 

[FuturePAF]

Recent conflict has shown when india will lose air battle it will likely want to make our air bases unoperational. Now it's a common sense we don't got much depth we have to fire 3x back to drag them again on air battle with PAF which suites to our advantage. As far as budget is concern pak is facing existential threat do anything use black market ask china or up taxes it must happen we are far behind in missile tech even iran is better. ITS an alarm bell and warning for us short conflict we might still have little room but full fledged war we will be in danger definitely. If india get superiority because of PAF having no where to land our faith will be like gaza such its the level of threat. We can only stop them if destroy their bases too by firing more back. we should take notes from iran. we should have mix of expensive and cost effective missiles. Expensive side will include supersonic and hypersonic missiles and low will include simple conventional ballistic missile. nuclear delivery system should be separated from conventional missiles . i hope GHQ have some common sense buying j35 will not be enough for next conflict.

No need to panic and up end the economy. We have to just make dual use of our existing infrastructure. Motorways need dozens of areas that can operate as air bases, with infrastructure in place to “operationalize” them should the need arise. This is also yet another reason why the Hyderabad-Sukkur motorway needs to be completed ASAP.

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If we need weapons in the event of war, we have to have an agreement with China for supplies at the ready for quick delivery ASAP, financed by a soft loan.

Don’t derail the economy, because it is the only way to pay for the big ticket items long term.