Pakistan Ordinance Factories - POF

[ThoroughPro]

Assalam alaikum
The purpose of this thread is discussing latest situation in indigenous small arms development, while much of the focus maybe on the the replacement of the Pakistani service rifle other firearms may also be discussed.

REPLACING THE G3 & TYPE 56
In the mid 2010s, a process to replace the serving rifles of the Pakistani military i.e. G3 and the Type 56 was initiated. A competition was held between various international firearms such as the Belgian FN-SCAR (7.62x51mm), Czech Republic’s CZ-BREN (5.56x45mm), Italian Beretta ARX-200 (7.62x39mm), and the Russian AK-103 (7.62x39mm).
View attachment 251
CZ-Bren
View attachment 252
Some other rifles (Bushmaster ACR, Zastava M21 and FN SCAR-H)
However despite much fanfare there were no tangible results and it appeared that the induction of new rifles program had largely ended without much success, however at that time Pakistan Ordnance Factories Wah were given the go ahead to develop a solution for the needs of the armed forces. POF would then unveil the BW20 as a potential successor of the G3 in December 2021 and then showcase a derivative in the form of the CW39 which would ostensibly replace the Type 56 as well as CW56.
View attachment 255
BW20, CW39 and CW56
In December 2022, two new rifles by local manufacturers would showcase more local rifles which were the GIDS Klass 786 and the Cavalier Group Maverik
View attachment 258GIDS Klass 786

View attachment 259

Cavalier Maverik 22
In August 23, it was reported by both POF Chief Designer Mr Salman Ali and Defense analyst International Defense Analysis that the Pakistan Navy Marines and the Frontier Constabulary had adopted the CW56 assault rifle.
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However, until now no official replacement of the G3 has been notified and the process still seems to be ongoing.

The situation in small arms production is still the same as in 1951 when the POF was established. Its run by some end-of-career no-scope-for-anything else generals who can't see the next step due to their fat bellies obstructing the view and they can't see things beyond their noses due to their non-visionary Yes-Sir bringing up. Its still busy slapping pathetic looking butt stocks to the same 1950 G3 design. That is the whole innovation by POF for you 1967 G3 with a 2025 butt stock.

 

[ThoroughPro]

Future Sniper Rifle System developed by NUTECH

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What the Heck.
It took them 12 years to develop a sniper rifle.
The future it was designed for is already past.

 

[Metal 0-1]

Rifle looks promising, spotted that same weapon with Pak Marines and SSG-N with a suppressor. Couldn't find a match in International market. Now we know it's a indigenous system. Seems heavily inspired by Barret MRAD and Acuracy International G22A2.

Reporter was dummy seriously, could have asked questions about metallurgy, caliber, if a modular caliber solution is in pipeline.
Most Importantly why the heck the bipod is impeding Glass vision could've used a better design e.g Harris bipod.

Now he mentioned a a separate ballistic computer as a part of this system From eyeballing the slides on screens behind them it takes calculations from kestrel, range-finder, weather meter to compute the firing solution. This is kind of old school approch if they want this rifle to relevant in this day and age, this rifle has to have modular caliber system + onboard ballistic computer like Wicox RAPTAR or Vortex Impact

 

[Metal 0-1]

POF Official Explaining Concept of BW21

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I bet this idea was conceived after snorting some funny powder

 

[Samurai]

The situation in small arms production is still the same as in 1951 when the POF was established. Its run by some end-of-career no-scope-for-anything else generals who can't see the next step due to their fat bellies obstructing the view and they can't see things beyond their noses due to their non-visionary Yes-Sir bringing up. Its still busy slapping pathetic looking butt stocks to the same 1950 G3 design. That is the whole innovation by POF for you 1967 G3 with a 2025 butt stock.

Very well said, and I will reiterate this again. POF is a disgrace to Pakistan Military Industrial Complex. Its so laughable (shameful even) to see POF displaying golden MP5's on defence expo's hoping to get attention from some Arab sheikh to buy them. They have been stuck back in time and are unable to comprehend the latest trends and tech around the world. Even if they can't manufacture a world class expensive rifle, they should have at least upgraded their G3's to modern standards like some European armies did or create an upgraded variant of AK.

 

[Metal 0-1]

Salman needs to go.
Other organizations need to step up the game in R&D like NUTECH which designed that sniper rifle. POF should only resort to manufacturing.

 

[Metal 0-1]

If you criticize Salman dude get infront of camera and start calling people internet warriors. And justify his bastardized designs like BW-20

 

[Samurai]

Its 2025 and these POF bros are still talking about MP5's and ancient G3 models. They still show those golden MP5s hoping that some Arab sheikh will be attracted to it. The world has moved on and these guys are stuck in the 70s.

What an actual disgrace.

 

[Samurai]

If you criticize Salman dude get infront of camera and start calling people internet warriors. And justify his bastardized designs like BW-20

These POF fanbois will still defend the ancient models of G3 and will now defend BW and CW series. Fine, its the need of the hour but there is no timelines as to when these (BW & CW) rifles are going to be inducted? There is no talk and all silence. I even commented on Salman's Youtube video about the progress of inducting BW/CW rifles, but there is no reply. Its going to be 2030 and we will still see Pakistan Army personnel using old G3 models and AK.... unless they decide to cancel BW/CW series and import rifles.

 

[Metal 0-1]

The potential we really missing out on. G-3 is not a bad platform. It just need weight shedding and sensible upgrades.



Shorty

 

[Metal 0-1]

View attachment 141809

Its 2025 and these POF bros are still talking about MP5's and ancient G3 models. They still show those golden MP5s hoping that some Arab sheikh will be attracted to it. The world has moved on and these guys are stuck in the 70s.

What an actual disgrace.

Inherently not a bad thing. But they need to offer modernized kits and accessories with their retro options.

 

[Metal 0-1]

@Fatman17 can we merge this and "Pakistan Small Arms Discussion" Thread????

 

[Fatman17]

@Fatman17 can we merge this and "Pakistan Small Arms Discussion" Thread????

Let me check and oblige

 

[RajaBaja]

The potential we really missing out on. G-3 is not a bad platform. It just need weight shedding and sensible upgrades.
View attachment 141811
View attachment 141812

Shorty
View attachment 141813

Such bulky old generation rifles. Why don't we work with the US and acquire license manufacturing of AR series? There are 3-4 companies that make this brand. Personal experience, AR-15 is MUCH better at fire rate, light weight, handling and in every aspect compared to other rifles in the world.

 

[Metal 0-1]

Such bulky old generation rifles. Why don't we work with the US and acquire license manufacturing of AR series? There are 3-4 companies that make this brand. Personal experience, AR-15 is MUCH better at fire rate, light weight, handling and in every aspect compared to other rifles in the world.


View attachment 141815
View attachment 141817

Man you just showed us worst examples of AR-15 platform. Look up Daniel Defense Block II and Giselle URGI, Knights Armament SR-16. Noveske N-4. See actually what gunfighters in US are carrying.

I'm a huge proponent and fan of AR platform. We should get new AR-15s for our SOF. SSW seriously need to get rid of their stupid F-2000.

But light weight variants of G-3 shall remain in infantry. There's a reason US Army is moving towards 6.8mm round for their infantry. USASOC still retains 5.56.