Pakistan-Saudi Arabia mutual defense pact: News & Discussion

[Ali_Baba]

I don't care about that and I am happy that KSA/GCC is providing staging grounds to target the Iranian regime and actively targeting and bombing Iran itself on a daily basis.

Too bad for Iran that they cannot do much to stop KSA from doing just that and too bad that they cannot hit (either they are incapable or afraid) of targeting anything in KSA of note for now 5 months. Despite KSA being the main staging ground in the attacks on Iran.

That is only normal given that the Iranian regime has actively been supporting anti-KSA/anti-Arab terrorist militias and proxies prior to this war and meddled opportunistically in war-torn Arab countries where they have no business and where they are largely very unwanted and disliked.

Iran actively supported Houthi attacks on KSA for years so now KSA is actively supporting US and Arab strikes on Iran. Fair game, I say.

Same Iranian regime that started the hostilities in 1979 by trying to export their backward "revolution" to KSA/GCC and the Arab world by large which they luckily failed with spectacularly.

And as usual Arabs will come out of this on the top like throughout all of recorded history while Iran will remain a failed, impoverished and sanctioned (likely also largely destroyed) entity with great internal divisions.

Don't forget that the Iranian regime had to kill 1000's of their own protestors back in January. That should tell you everything about the ground realities.


Pakistan will support KSA as usual (the right and most clever choice judging by history). KSA will be fine (as usual). You signed a defense agreement with KSA, not Iran. So the actual leaders of Pakistan and the military knows what to do in this regard. Rest is irrelevant noise.

Good - so, let's stop the talk of Saudi having some 'moral high ground' in this conflict, it clearly does not.. It is involved in the same naked war of conflict and control that it accuses Iran of, and the only thing on the table is who is more successful at it. Both countries are equally as ugly as each other in stoking conflict in the middle east.

 

[RocketLaw]

I don't care about that and I am happy that KSA/GCC is providing staging grounds to target the Iranian regime and actively targeting and bombing Iran itself on a daily basis.

Too bad for Iran that they cannot do much to stop KSA from doing just that and too bad that they cannot hit (either they are incapable or afraid) of targeting anything in KSA of note for now 5 months. Despite KSA being the main staging ground in the attacks on Iran.

That is only normal given that the Iranian regime has actively been supporting anti-KSA/anti-Arab terrorist militias and proxies prior to this war and meddled opportunistically in war-torn Arab countries where they have no business and where they are largely very unwanted and disliked.

Iran actively supported Houthi attacks on KSA for years so now KSA is actively supporting US and Arab strikes on Iran. Fair game, I say.

Same Iranian regime that started the hostilities in 1979 by trying to export their backward "revolution" to KSA/GCC and the Arab world by large which they luckily failed with spectacularly.

And as usual Arabs will come out of this on the top like throughout all of recorded history while Iran will remain a failed, impoverished and sanctioned (likely also largely destroyed) entity with great internal divisions.

Don't forget that the Iranian regime had to kill 1000's of their own protestors back in January. That should tell you everything about the ground realities.


Pakistan will support KSA as usual (the right and most clever choice judging by history). KSA will be fine (as usual). You signed a defense agreement with KSA, not Iran. So the actual leaders of Pakistan and the military knows what to do in this regard. Rest is irrelevant noise.

Yes I know we signed a defense agreement with KSA, that's great.

We just don't want to attack other Muslim countries. But just ignore the huge benefit of Israel, right?

I didn't see any Saudi talking about Israel on their backyard, I don't get it. I am lost at this silly game!

 

[_Arabia_]

Good - so, let's stop the talk of Saudi having some 'moral high ground' in this conflict, it clearly does not.. It is involved in the same naked war of conflict and control that it accuses Iran of, and the only thing on the table is who is more successful at it. Both countries are equally as ugly as each other in stoking conflict in the middle east.

Not really. The ground realities demonstrate that very well. KSA is one of the world's most prosperous nations with allies and friends from almost every corner of the world. Almost every single regional country, unless a terrorist militia cult and backward terrorist non-state actors, have cordial and very close ties with KSA. From Indonesia (largest Muslim nation in the world by population), to every single Arab country (550-600 million people and 20 + countries), Pakistan (second largest Muslim country by population), all of Muslim African and Central Asia/Caucasus. Including most of Europe, the two main world powers China and USA and even the likes of India and Russia.

While Iran is a failed and disliked entity in every way, with zero formal allies, other than their own terrorist proxies that use the Iranian regime as their own piggy bank, with an economy 2 times smaller than small 10 million big UAE. Millions of outsiders flood and rely on KSA for work (only USA and Russia can compete) while only desperate illiterate Afghans work in Iran.

One is failed, sanctioned, impoverished, disliked entity with no formal allies in the region (they are even at odds with one of the few Shia majority countries in next door Azerbaijan), who has done nothing but cause trouble in the region and engage in opportunistic meddling since 1979, and the other one (KSA) is one of the main backbones and success stories in the Muslim world and region.

Once again, you expect KSA/GCC/Arab states who have only been met with hostility by the Iranian regime since 1979, to suddenly remain passive, even when attacked by them because they are incapable of targeting the USA or Israel itself?

I would love to hear your explanations for the ground realities that I described that nobody can ignore and no amount of propaganda can change.

 

[F.O.X]

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Most normal Pakistanis are more nuanced and will stand with Yemenis subject to Saudi Arabia’s unlawful siege

Most Pakistanis care more about KSA than Iran and Yemen combined. I don’t know what you are smoking early in the morning.

 

[_Arabia_]

Yes I know we signed a defense agreement with KSA, that's great.

We just don't want to attack other Muslim countries. But just ignore the huge benefit of Israel, right?

I didn't see any Saudi talking about Israel on their backyard, I don't get it. I am lost at this silly game!

What has Israel to do with a backward Houthi terrorist cult starting a civl war in Yemen back in September 2014 and before that waging a violent terrorist insurgency against Yemen since the 1990's. Even against Zaydi (fellow Zaydis) dominated Ali Abdullah Saleh regime?

Just admit that you are completely clueless about the history of Yemen and recent events in the country. You just hear Houthis and their useless token attacks on Israel and in your mind they are saints and can do nothing wrong even though they have run the tiny part of North Yemen that they occupy into the ground and are deeply backward and incompetent khat-addicted terrorist cultists who have done nothing but divide and destroy Yemen.

This is your Houthi terrorist cult:

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"A Houthi cleric in Sana'a responds to those demanding their salaries: Damn you all, don't you know that the salary is an American invention and a Zionist conspiracy! It's normal for the Yemeni people to die of hunger and thirst, and the salary has become a Zionist conspiracy".

Not to forget that they are mostly drug addicts 24/7 high on khat. Not very smart people with zero accomplishments in their 32 year old cursed existence.

They are sending children as young as 7 years old to the frontline and indoctrinating them:

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That is what you support. I wonder, why no nation on the planet, other than the Iranian regime (who I believe have not fully recognized them either) recognize the Houthi terrorist cult occupation? Care to explain?

 

[Pakistan First]

@_Arabia_

I think KSA needs to swallow a bitter pill and understand ground reality. The houthis are a reality. You can call them a terrorist cult but they can't be that alone. They definitely have support from locals. That support among locals can be 60% or 40% or whatever that is different debate but point is they have sizable support and that's what makes them so hard to defeat.

Its same problem Pakistan is facing as far as Taliban is concerned. My fellow Pakistanis say to attack them, fight them but I always ask to what end? You can't completely remove them as they have support of locals. They got power in their country. Yes you can keep doing intelligence based operations against TTP in afghan soil but starting an endless fullscale war with Afghanistan is stupidity as it will give no real benefit but waste of resources. Same I would tell Saudis. You will waste your resources over years and still Houthis will be around.

Best thing is to find a common ground, ultimately most conflicts settles only with talks.

 

[Yasser76]

I've seen Iranians in this thread acting innocent and defending Houthis against Saudi and passing derisive comments against Pakistan. They should first justify their illegal occupation of Omani territorial waters and then raise fingers at Saudi bombing houthis to prevent the closure of Bab-Al-Mandab strait. What is good for gander should be good for gease too. They are suggesting Pakistan to stay out of Houthis matter but shouldn't Iranians stay out of Houthis matter too as it doesn't concern them? They have a war to defend from USA/Israel. Concentrate on that first instead of suggesting Pakistan what to do and what not do I guess.

Have you not realised by now? Iranians can never do any wrong.....

 

[Yasser76]

Most Pakistanis care more about KSA than Iran and Yemen combined. I don’t know what you are smoking early in the morning.

Brother, this Iranian living in UK is now telling Pakistanis who they love....

 

[Pak Defender]

Just to be safe side - it is getting worst every week slowly. The huge benefit right now is Israel and they want to see Saudi, Iran, Yemen, Egypt, Emirates, Kuwait, etc are fighting, can we see it clearly?

What should Pakistan do? We need to unite all of these great people together.

So, according to you, Pakistan should withdraw from a defence pact just because of this Iranian proxy?

 

[Ali_Baba]

Not really. The ground realities demonstrate that very well. KSA is one of the world's most prosperous nations with allies and friends from almost every corner of the world. Almost every single regional country, unless a terrorist militia cult and backward terrorist non-state actors, have cordial and very close ties with KSA. From Indonesia (largest Muslim nation in the world by population), to every single Arab country (550-600 million people and 20 + countries), Pakistan (second largest Muslim country by population), all of Muslim African and Central Asia/Caucasus. Including most of Europe, the two main world powers China and USA and even the likes of India and Russia.

While Iran is a failed and disliked entity in every way, with zero formal allies, other than their own terrorist proxies that use the Iranian regime as their own piggy bank, with an economy 2 times smaller than small 10 million big UAE. Millions of outsiders flood and rely on KSA for work (only USA and Russia can compete) while only desperate illiterate Afghans work in Iran.

One is failed, sanctioned, impoverished, disliked entity with no formal allies in the region (they are even at odds with one of the few Shia majority countries in next door Azerbaijan), who has done nothing but cause trouble in the region and engage in opportunistic meddling since 1979, and the other one (KSA) is one of the main backbones and success stories in the Muslim world and region.

Once again, you expect KSA/GCC/Arab states who have only been met with hostility by the Iranian regime since 1979, to suddenly remain passive, even when attacked by them because they are incapable of targeting the USA or Israel itself?

I would love to hear your explanations for the ground realities that I described that nobody can ignore and no amount of propaganda can change.

None of what you have said contradicts my point :

"Good - so, let's stop the talk of Saudi having some 'moral high ground' in this conflict, it clearly does not.. It is involved in the same naked war of conflict and control that it accuses Iran of, and the only thing on the table is who is more successful at it. Both countries are equally as ugly as each other in stoking conflict in the middle east."

 

[Yasser76]

None of what you have said contradicts my point :

"Good - so, let's stop the talk of Saudi having some 'moral high ground' in this conflict, it clearly does not.. It is involved in the same naked war of conflict and control that it accuses Iran of, and the only thing on the table is who is more successful at it. Both countries are equally as ugly as each other in stoking conflict in the middle east."

This may well be the case, but one country has stood by Pakistan through thick and thin, the other has bombed Pakistan, hid Indian spies and stirred rebel groups.

Will let you guess which one....

 

[_Arabia_]

@_Arabia_

I think KSA needs to swallow a bitter pill and understand ground reality. The houthis are a reality. You can call them a terrorist cult but they can't be that alone. They definitely have support from locals. That support among locals can be 60% or 40% or whatever that is different debate but point is they have sizable support and that's what makes them so hard to defeat.

Its same problem Pakistan is facing as far as Taliban is concerned. My fellow Pakistanis say to attack them, fight them but I always ask to what end? You can't completely remove them as they have support of locals. They got power in their country. Yes you can keep doing intelligence based operations against TTP in afghan soil but starting an endless fullscale war with Afghanistan is stupidity as it will give no real benefit but waste of resources. Same I would tell Saudis. You will waste your resources over years and still Houthis will be around.

Best thing is to find a common ground, ultimately most conflicts settles only with talks.

ISIS also had significant support on the ground in areas of Syria and Iraq. In reality no sane or educated Yemeni support Houthis. They are a terrorist cult who has infiltrated North Yemeni society and hijacked it completely. Every criticism is harshly punished and critics are killed regularly by them. It is a tribal group that run North Yemen as their own personal fiefdom with no regard to their own starving and struggling population.

Which is why there is a tribal and clan mobilization and uprising against the Houthis in North Yemen. Go read up on it.

KSA has not invaded North Yemen because it is heavily populous and mountainous (much like next door South KSA) and KSA is not willing to lose 1000's of young Saudi Arabian soldiers just for the Yemenis to start another civil war 5 years from now. KSA has no interest in running Houthi-occupied North Yemen which has no natural resources and which is mostly landlocked.

KSA already controls 80-85% of the Yemeni landmass, all the oil and gas and other resources, main ports and 1500 + of strategic coastline and a non-hostile population along with the Yemeni government.

KSA however will not tolerate Houthi terrorist cult shenanigans and disruption of global sea trade.

If the North Yemenis are content (they are not which is why we will support them to gain their eventual freedom) living under one of the most backward and impoverished entities in the world - that is their choice. Same with Taliban and Afghans living in caves and engaging in pedophilia and homosexuality and other non-Islamic acts. while treating women as cattle and preventing them from obtaining any form of education. Same story with the Houthis who have locked all women inside their homes and use them as breeding cows with all due respect.

KSA will be fine regardless and the world community will never accept any major disruptions of the Red Sea or Bab el-Mandeb so if not KSA dealing with it the world will do it for us and the global world for that matter.

Other than that we agree.

 

[Ali_Baba]

This may well be the case, but one country has stood by Pakistan through thick and thin, the other has bombed Pakistan, hid Indian spies and stirred rebel groups.

Will let you guess which one....

Yes, Saudi has and I fully recognize that.

But I still view Saudi through a moral compass that has gone very wrong in recent years, which has been bought about by MBS and his horse trading for whatever "drives him". We all saw the value of its moral standing with it's dance with Netanyahu and the Abraham Accords.

The Abraham Accords for Saudi dance only came to an end with the genocide of the people of Gaza, otherwise they would have been fully signed up members by now. I am taking a holistic view of everything in my views and comments.

 

[RocketLaw]

So, according to you, Pakistan should withdraw from a defence pact just because of this Iranian proxy?

No, I don't want Israel to gain a huge benefit, they are waiting for the right time and monitoring every Muslim countries fighting each other. They must be laughing, right?

I think it is a TRAP for Pakistan definitely - we will be very weak next few years.

 

[Pakistan First]

I've seen Iranians in this thread acting innocent and defending Houthis against Saudi and passing derisive comments against Pakistan. They should first justify their illegal occupation of Omani territorial waters and then raise fingers at Saudi bombing houthis to prevent the closure of Bab-Al-Mandab strait. What is good for gander should be good for gease too. They are suggesting Pakistan to stay out of Houthis matter but shouldn't Iranians stay out of Houthis matter too as it doesn't concern them? They have a war to defend from USA/Israel. Concentrate on that first instead of suggesting Pakistan what to do and what not do I guess.

True. Remember this phase-2 of war started when Iran hit the commercial ships passing through strait from Omani route. With that they also hit the MoU which Pakistan worked on so tirelessly. The same MoU which many were considering as victory for Iran. Iran should have shown some patience and let the ships pass by. As diplomacy had entered and it was ceasefire, so Iran should have given diplomacy a chance. They already had gotten the blockade lifted over Iranian ports and its oil export, they could have asked for more sanctions to be lifted. Just hitting commercial ships during fresh ceasefire is crazy even if the ships disobeyed the so-called Persian gulf strait authority and passed by Omani route. For the first time the World sided with United States after this attack.