Pakistan-Saudi Arabia mutual defense pact: News & Discussion

[El Sidd]

He's got a good point.....

To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.

Accept third party cookies

Pirzada fails to mention that no parliamentary debate was deemed necessary for this formalisation of Pak-Saudi arrangements.

 

[FuturePAF]

Pakistani forces have absolutely NO relation with Yemen. This is a NATO like alliance. It's explained above in posts, kindly review.

Consider it a 3 in 1 pact: 1: Mutual defense & war agreement 2: Defense industry establishment agreement and 3: Economic integration and growth agreement!

I will given you way Yemen could be a factor, on purely a defensive posture:

The Saudis need the SLOCs protected; from Houthi attacks on their tankers, Houthi’s have more and more advanced weapons year after year. The Saudi could help fund the PN’s need for 6 destroyers. The Turkish TF-2000 has many western adjacent systems, so there should be no objections from the west.

We have seen how successful the arleigh burkes have been at shooting down Houthi missiles.

News from a few years ago.

To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.

Accept third party cookies

btw, I am pointing out the possible fine print we should be careful to know before we sign up for a quagmire. I hope you are right the focus is on the terms you have focused upon.

P.S. a big way Saudi’s could help Pakistan, mutual defense dovetailing into economic opportunities, is talking to the Afghans and helping to reign in the situation. The Saudis could even fund the Trans-Afghan railway and on penalty of their relationship have the Afghans swear to keep the railway open and safe.

If the establishment wants to really have one Trump card on IK and what he could get done if out of prison, it’s relations with the Afghans, then the establishment, has to make this a fait accompli to end the Afghan threat, bring in investment to make it hold, and also use investment to help pacify Baluchistan (with better local governance).

The Trans-Afghan railway would also check Iranian influence in the region, as Pakistan would not need to send any freight via Iranian railways to get to Turkey. Sidelining Iran would be another benefit for the Saudis.

 

[Mighty_Dragon_Strike]

Pirzada fails to mention that no parliamentary debate was deemed necessary for this formalisation of Pak-Saudi arrangements.

you fail to understand, all the drawing rooms of certain areas of Northern Pak. has already replaced Parliament decades ago!

even allocation of jobs to MNAs are decided there, landlord of Kalabagh etc etc!

 

[Yasser76]

A summary of my thoughts;

• Don't get ahead of yourselves, the Saudi's have form for talking big and not acting
• This is a great opportunity for Pakistan, KSA and the wider region
• The Pakistani military will need to expand & adapt to be ready for it's new role
• The establishment should use this as an opportunity to fix our economy and build deeper ties with other Gulf countries

Expanded...

Caution: KSA had a much touted anti terrorism coalition that to this day hasn't seen action. Raheel Sharif was at the head of that. Lets hope this alliance doesn't go the same way.

Opportunity: This is a great opportunity for Pakistan and Saudi to build a genuine defence partnership. We can integrate our forces to work together like NATO nations do, we can expand the scope of it to other nations, we have access to each others equipment. Saudi should fund the expansion and upgrade of the Pakistani military. Pakistan should be looking to deploy personnel to KSA and also train the Saudi forces and raise their levels so they are competent and capable too. KSA can also provide fuel to Pakistan at time of conflict, which changes our paradigm with India and suddenly gives us a lot more stamina for a long conflict. The Saudi's also need to fund future development such as hypersonic missiles, missile defence and the huge volumes required to cover Pakistan and Saudi. International law doesn't allow us to sell such equipment, that doesn't mean we cant deploy it on foreign territory.

Other gulf Arab nations should be looking to take advantage of this opportunity too.

Challenges: Pakistan wants this role but it isn't prepared for it. We need more manpower, we need more equipment, we need to develop strategy and tactics that allow us to project power. We're currently setup to be a defensive wall, we need to be an offensive unit. That's different tactics, thats different equipment, we need a proper expeditionary force. We need integrating with Saudi forces and equipment. Our soldiers and commanders need to be able to communicate. How do you deploy F15's and J10's on the battlefield in the same way we did J10 and JF17? There is a lot of serious work to do.

Economy: I suspect this partnership will be transactional, but it should be more than that. For the long term security of the region AND the partnership, the economic stabilization and strengthening of Pakistan is key. An industrialised and economically strong Pakistan becomes a Pakistan which is self sufficient and not needing to be propped up. This reduces western influence and allows for greater autonomy, especially in foreign policy. Tech developed in the same Pakistan will be assets for all members of the alliance. Pakistan has a strong base for this sort of development, but it needs further privatization and it needs expanding. We should look at how Turkey and China improved their military industry alongside industrialisation of the rest of the country.

The establishment needs to play a role in ensuring foreign investment goes where intended and not into pockets.

We should also look to develop training programs to train Pakistani workers in accordance to Saudi standards and regulations. Electricians, plumbers, carpenters, tilers, whatever else - lets get our skilled workers trained to their regs, get them learning the language, give them some cultural training and then get them priority visas for when Saudi wants workers. Qatar and Iran have both learnt the lesson of hiring Indians, the Gulf Arabs should pay attention. The labour class should not be the focus, the focus should be skilled workers integrating into Gulf Arab economies, being treated with respect and helping build economic bonds through businesses and remittances.

Wider Region: The other petrol pump states should look at taking a similar deal. In no universe is a state like Qatar or Oman or Kuwait able to adequately defend themselves. These people should also focus on bringing stability and prosperity to Iraq, Syria, Yemen, Somalia, Sudan, Libya, so that these nations can be assets to the Arab world, rather than risks. Right now your enemies control the skies over Iraq and Syria. They use that route to strike you. 20 years goes in a blink of an eye, but 20 years of sustained investment, would turn these countries around. Stop spending in Europe and the US, the trillions you lube Trump up with would literally change the fortunes of multiple countries in your region.

Good summery.

Interesting that due to it's US support, there is now actually very little equipment overlap between Saudi and Pak.

One way of appeasing the US is ti buy much more US kit (funded by Saudi) to equip Pak forces allocated to Saudi defence or fund increasing purchases of Chinese kit for Pakistan

I think it may be one or the other, not both, I am unsure

 

[Hakikat ve Hikmet]

Ultimately transfer of 10-20 nuke warheads?

An anecdote from my first landing in the Ankara airport in Turkey during the Cold War era. It was a dual purpose airport with the military cargo taking a major share. There I, for the first time, saw a massive USAF cargo aircraft landing with stern looking military officers. So, anything is possible under a NATO like defense pact.....

 

[313Ghazi]

Good summery.

Interesting that due to it's US support, there is now actually very little equipment overlap between Saudi and Pak.

One way of appeasing the US is ti buy much more US kit (funded by Saudi) to equip Pak forces allocated to Saudi defence or fund increasing purchases of Chinese kit for Pakistan

I think it may be one or the other, not both, I am unsure

I think the strategically smart decision would be to diversify and buy Chinese equipment, but I know how our boys love Lockheed Martin, so I suspect they'll jump at the chance to get more American equipment.

 

[313Ghazi]

Ultimately transfer of 10-20 nuke warheads?

This i'd definitely avoid. We cant risk exposure. I'm even worried about exposure if we integrate with Saudi Forces. They've not burnt any bridges and they could be compromised. We don't want all of our networks open to them.

 

[Baibers_1260]

A lot of speculation, IAF got a massive bloody nose., Saudis noted this too I imagine too.

Correct, Saudi Arabia and ALL countries noticed the Indian Air Force got a bloody nose, .. far more bloody than any air-force in a peer to peer combat in recent history. Which is why Pakistan is being courted as a "defender" and the "Mutual Defense Treaty " makes such good optics. Conventional airpower in terms of number of aircraft and quality the combined strength of the Gulf Arab Srates Egypt, Turkey and Jordan far outweighs the Pakistan Air Force, Yet Saudi Arabia has projected Pakistan as a defense ally, not Turkey or Algeria. It simply makes better optics to show a pact with a partner that defeated an adversary 7 times it's size albeit in a brief engagement

Retaliation against Israel would be fuindamental in any defence strategy

There can be no retaliation ( hypothetical) against Israel as it is defended by NATO as well as Jordan and Egypt. The missile war with Iran showed how 5 air-forces cooperated in missle defense shooting down Iranian missiles.

 

[Ali_Baba]

no word yet by Force Magazine

I am waiting for that, to see the Indian view of things for sure.

 

[Yasser76]

I think the strategically smart decision would be to diversify and buy Chinese equipment, but I know how our boys love Lockheed Martin, so I suspect they'll jump at the chance to get more American equipment.

Yeah, thinking out loud, will be easier for western equipped Pakistani forces to integrate into Saudi forces then for Pakistan to try and recreate a Chinese defence ecosystem in Saudi (that of course is crawling with US Military perosnnel)

 

[RajaBaja]

S.Arabia and Pakistan dont have technology to build a Defense Industry
and you are talking about to build a better force than NATO ... so funny

Saudi Arabia buys Pakistan's nuclear deterrent ....

Sooner or later, your nation will come into the picture so no need to act jealous. There are two defense industries this agreement will help to grow, Turkish and Pakistani. Pakistan is already working with China on various projects.

Pakistan produces near 75% of its defense equipment for its army. Airforce and Navy are left where we are still depending on foreign suppliers. It will be the case for naval ships because I don't see us producing large frigates or destroyer tonnage ships.

For the airforce, our PFX should bring local production and indigenization and now with funds availability, hopefully a local stealth aircraft also with obvious Chinese partnership can be built under PFX.
In next ten years, expect a Chinese TOT turbo fan engine to be built here in Pakistan covering our defense needs.

Future integration will also take place on many defense articles from Turkey as Saudia is very interested in KAAN too, as well as many new weapon systems that will be acquired for this new alliance taking shape. It will NOT be limited to ONLY Saudia and Pakistan. It will have more nations. The resulting force will be built on latest technologies and weapons.

 

[Yasser76]

I am waiting for that, to see the Indian view of things for sure.

Will be a mixture of

"$4 Trillion economy, Saudis need us"
"Saudis need Indian workers"
"India will isolate Saudi Arabia"
"Agni can target Saudi Arabia"
"India will offer to defend Israel"
"India can sanction Saudi Arabia and boycott!"

Trust me, shit will get wild with them now....

 

[Mobius]

I will given you way Yemen could be a factor, on purely a defensive posture:

The Saudis need the SLOCs protected; from Houthi attacks on their tankers, Houthi’s have more and more advanced weapons year after year. The Saudi could help fund the PN’s need for 6 destroyers. The Turkish TF-2000 has many western adjacent systems, so there should be no objections from the west.

We have seen how successful the arleigh burkes have been at shooting down Houthi missiles.

News from a few years ago.

To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.

Accept third party cookies

btw, I am pointing out the possible fine print we should be careful to know before we sign up for a quagmire. I hope you are right the focus is on the terms you have focused upon.

P.S. a big way Saudi’s could help Pakistan, mutual defense dovetailing into economic opportunities, is talking to the Afghans and helping to reign in the situation. The Saudis could even fund the Trans-Afghan railway and on penalty of their relationship have the Afghans swear to keep the railway open and safe.

If the establishment wants to really have one Trump card on IK and what he could get done if out of prison, it’s relations with the Afghans, then the establishment, has to make this a fait accompli to end the Afghan threat, bring in investment to make it hold, and also use investment to help pacify Baluchistan (with better local governance).

The Trans-Afghan railway would also check Iranian influence in the region, as Pakistan would not need to send any freight via Iranian railways to get to Turkey. Sidelining Iran would be another benefit for the Saudis.

The Yemeni are war heroes. The only ones with balls to take on the Zionist entity to help Palestine. Pakistan should in no way be hostile to the blessed Yemeni.....

According to two narrations in Sahih Bukhari, Muhammad asks Allah to bless the areas of Bilad al-Sham (Syria) and Yemen. When his companions said "Our Najd as well," he replied: There will appear earthquakes and afflictions, and from there will come out the side of the head (i.e. horns) of Satan.

I do have my suspicions with the Najdi (Riyadh) Arabs.

This Alliance is good only if it covers all Muslim/Arab states. Otherwise we'll be defending a regime that MAY be protecting Zionist interests in the region.

 

[Mighty_Dragon_Strike]

Will be a mixture of

"$4 Trillion economy, Saudis need us"
"Saudis need Indian workers"
"India will isolate Saudi Arabia"
"Agni can target Saudi Arabia"
"India will offer to defend Israel"
"India can sanction Saudi Arabia and boycott!"

Trust me, shit will get wild with them now....

hilarious!

ohh gosh! what a difference those few days of April (Balo. Train attack) and May 6 to 10th have made!

ohh dear, we have seen war every where since then!

 

[Mighty_Dragon_Strike]

To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.

Accept third party cookies