POST WAR assessment of recent conflict.

[Maea]

First question I want to start with why did we not see stocks of cruise missiles used?

View attachment 119609

IMHO

There was no actual need.
All the target we wanted to hit were hit and damaged/destroyed by FATAH 1/2. Much cheaper then CMs.

Another point could be that we were holding them back in case of escalation of conflict, unlike indians we were in complete control of the situation as per ISPR.

 

[Sharma Ji]

This is exactly the childish attitude I'm talking about that India needs to stop.

but facts speak for themselves

aap batao, how many years of democracy has the relatively young nation of Pakistan had ?

IK ko kisnay nikala ? who running things there ?

who NEEDED a skirmish to fix their much tarnished reputation ?

you lot know much more intimately than me, iss cheez ki sacchai !

 

[That_Guy]

but facts speak for themselves

aap batao, how many years of democracy has the relatively young nation of Pakistan had ?

IK ko kisnay nikala ? who running things there ?

who NEEDED a skirmish to fix their much tarnished reputation ?

you lot know much more intimately than me, iss cheez ki sacchai !

Again, you're proving my point.

Instead of dealing with my point, you continously use whataboutisms to deflect.

Both Manmohan Singh and Pakistani officials point towards Indian domestic pressures that a potential deal was scraped, and neither side pointed towards Pakistan as the main culprit.

Your childish claims of Pakistan backstabbing India is why India will never come to a lasting peace with Pakistan, even if Pakistan gives up on the entirety of Kashmir and becomes a vassal state of India.

Do a bit of self-reflection. Pakistanis already know the toxic nature of its army's influence in its domestic affairs. Indians however refuse to even acknowledge their domestic affairs are even a little bit concerning.

 

[5thgenEnjoyer]

Overall, I agree with the take that Pakistan held back a large amount of its missile capabilities for usage in the event of a larger war.
With hindsight bias it looks a bit confusing why the forces didn't use the Cruise missiles, but the situation was very different barely 48 hours ago when the high command was dealing with the prospect of a total war.

 

[5thgenEnjoyer]

What the past few indo pak skirmishes -and this one- have taught us is that the biggest key to Pakistani deterrence is air power.
Both via flooding enemy air defence with cheap kamikaze drones before double tapping with missiles, as well as the general combat aircraft conducting strikes.
India will definitely aim to test Pakistan up to, and probably beyond this threshold again- so a refocused layering of air defence and large scale stockpiling is paramount
Drones seem to be working well too. They are a key player in any conflict for the foreseeable future and remain largely able to walk the line between escalation, because they are less provocative than missiles but still a step up from artillery

 

[Falcon26]

Air defence is the key here.

Pakistan is a late comer when it comes to air defense systems and it has historically relied on its Air Force to provide air defense. It has obviously changed the past decade or so and events this week will compel PAF to invest more in Turkish and Chinese air defense systems.

 

[Lulldapull]

Not True. Unless more details and clear images are released we will never know.

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Things to notice:

Radars were hit by very small explosive projectiles which are most likely drones.

No damage worth mentioning at Noor Khan/ Sargodha/ Rahim Yar Khan.

No aircrafts loss any where but we lost five brave soilders at Bholari.

This is really all I could get from Indian sources.


Pasrur radar....... hit seems to indicate little or no demage....Most likely a drone hit with very limited payload.

Chunian radar...... Extremely low quality pic...impossible to tell what we are looking at .

Arifwala radar...... Again some low intensity demage possible but too low quality to tell.

Sargodha base : Almost comical ...Two holes on the runway ...which before they had. a chance to take pics Pakistan had already filled!!!!

Rahim Yar Khan airport: Civilian target. Emergency landing strip and airport used mostly by Arab Royal families. No military infrastructure.

Nur Khan: One Structure destroyed....No loss of life or equipment visible.

Sukkar: Only clear radar damage/ destrotyed. Temporary aircraft parking shed seems to have collapsed and clearly no fire or anything parked undeneath it.

Bholari airfield: Only location where PAF suffered loss of life. 5 Shaheeds who were taking shelter in the building.

Jakobabad....Again a building structure that is demaged.


Things to notice:

Radars were hit by very small explosive projectiles which are most likely drones.

No damage worth mentioning at Noor Khan/ Sargodha/ Rahim Yar Khan.

No aircrafts loss any where but we lost five brave soilders at Bholari.

This is really all I could get from Indian sources.

Good roundup bro. Our emergency dispersal worked and assets are safe.

This is not the first time we are fighting a war.

 

[Sharma Ji]

Again, you're proving my point.

Instead of dealing with my point, you continously use whataboutisms to deflect.

Both Manmohan Singh and Pakistani officials point towards Indian domestic pressures that a potential deal was scraped, and neither side pointed towards Pakistan as the main culprit.

Your childish claims of Pakistan backstabbing India is why India will never come to a lasting peace with Pakistan, even if Pakistan gives up on the entirety of Kashmir and becomes a vassal state of India.

Do a bit of self-reflection. Pakistanis already know the toxic nature of its army's influence in its domestic affairs. Indians however refuse to even acknowledge their domestic affairs are even a little bit concerning.

Bad as they might be, Modi and co are democratically proper legit.

Your fauj, now out of hibernation/the shadows.. is not.

Munir poked India, and ab uski downfall starts

 

[TOPGUN]

We are sticking to selling Slurpee's, shaking our heads left to right nach ghana and bollywood BS please continue with the assessment on facts that the world knows now thank you.

 

[Sharma Ji]

We are sticking to selling Slurpee's, shaking our heads left to right nach ghana and bollywood BS please continue with the assessment on facts that the world knows now thank you.

View attachment 119747

standby for cholera wala milkshake

 

[TOPGUN]

standby for cholera wala milkshake

Your nation as already been milked stick to 7-11 lolz lmao

 

[Waz]

@Waz, please lock perhaps for a few days until we have more data instead of random news, while moderators/administrators etc can write. Otherwise, it will go 100 pages too.
What do you say?

My bro, people already started putting up threads about 'what we can improve', so I said let's discuss it all here. Makes sense, and so far we have fantastic contributions.

 

[hussain0216]

Already being done. And should be in final stages of testing.

View attachment 119742

How far are we from producing these systems

I know Faaz was linked to the Turkish Goturk (I forget the actual name) BVR project so it should see some positive results soon

 

[Great Mal]

It seems people keep derailing the subject at hand, that is what went wrong on our part.

The self assessment we should be doing is, our air defence played a decent role despite us having limited coverage & numbers.

Increase the number & batteries of HQ-9 & HQ-16 ADs with increased batteries you will get increased range. Mix in a system that is similar to Pantsir. As far as targeting other low flying drones are concerned we should be seriously investing in the Turkish Korkut anti air gun system which is based on the M-113 chasis, it’s tracked & we already have the maintenance know how for the chasis.


Better air launched & ground launched conventional munition mainly cruise missiles:

We need to rework SMASH or CM400 for ground attack with a multi mission seeker & increased range exceeding 500km. Develop or buy air launched cruise missiles that are supersonic & exceed ranges 500km or above.


Drones:

Whilst the military did learn some lessons from other conflicts in regards to drones, but they haven’t learnt enough, we need drones that are similar to Harop but the range has to be 500km at the very minimum again.

The Turkish YIHA are okayish but we know they did perform sub par, we have around 4 confirmed crashes within our own territory.

 

[MastanKhan]

First question I want to start with why did we not see stocks of cruise missiles used?

Honestly everything did well. Except for one.

Air Defence failed overall. I get that our air bases are closer to the border overall but life is not fair and preparations have to be made accordingly.

Either increase the number and variety of air defence units, or start building underground/mountain air bases, or do both. Sargodha at least should not have taken any hits.

In Bholari why weren't all personnel in trenches/bunkers when they knew other bases have been struck?

We also need something better than the CM-400 for our JF-17s. Longer range and faster flying.

Hi,

It was explained very well in press conference by the Paf air marshall about which systems were used.

It is the begining of the war---just the first round---cannot use all assets when there is no need---.