Raza Dar Rape case: Faisal Vawda demands Ishaq Dar's resignation

[Oscar]

now it makes sense.
I am not sure about the merit/criteria which I couldn't meet. Anyway, I objected to the KPK bill.
My response to HAIDER was that this news has overshadowed Dar's case (despite other provinces having already approved similar perks). Therefore, I took it as a tactic by Gov to bury Raza Dar's news.

How is it a tactic?

It was technically wrong of @HAIDER to post it in the thread where Dar’s excess is being discussed but the government did not brainwash PTI MPAs and leaders to push that bill through.

Same logic that puts every mistake by PTI or IK onto some external factor or conspiracy and why PTI supporters are bucketed as cultists instead of people truly looking for change.

Dar is not excusable under some conspiracy, neither is what KP assembly did nor is the establishment excesses. Each has its own surface and mechanism under what overall Pakistani society is and while the impact of those can be debated at a national and social level - there is no conspiracy to it.

Pakistanis are overwhelmingly selfish individuals and the extent of their selfishness depends on the power they exercise within the system built by the selfish for the selfish.

Bringing PTI into Dar or Dar into PTI and so on doesn’t mean each person’s grave is connected.

 

[Goenitz]

How is it a tactic?

It was technically wrong of @HAIDER to post it in the thread where Dar’s excess is being discussed but the government did not brainwash PTI MPAs and leaders to push that bill through.

no. I am not saying Govt schemed something so the KPK assembly presented that bill; I meant its media coverage. Media could have selected any other distracting news, but this was a perfect fit. Another reason is Uzma Bukhari's media briefing on this matter (though it was another province matter and Punjab assembly members have similar facilities)

Otherwise , the bill was mal-intended as it was not discussed openly. On top of that, the KPK assembly is discussing punishing journalists now:

"The Khyber Pakhtunkhwa Assembly has passed legislation introducing penalties, including imprisonment, fines, and restrictions on journalists covering assembly proceedings.
Under the new law, the speaker of the assembly has the authority to bar any journalist from covering proceedings of the house.
The legislation also provides for penalties of up to six months' imprisonment and fines of up to one million Pakistani rupees for violations of its provisions."

That is to bury this kind of news.

 

[RealNapster]

That was PTI biggest mistake, IK biggest mistake. Not building a new class of politician, not curating a new generation of leaders. If he did, if he had a proper leadership structure which he could trust on, which the people could trust, we wouldn't be here today.

Who do you think rule KP on PTI behalf ? How many of PTI MPAs in KP assembly are well-known politicians and so-called lotas ?

The current MPAs in KPK assembly are not even tier-1 leadership of PTI because Tier-1 and Tier-2 were forced to leave politics, join other parties, or jailed.

Do you think if it was any other party, it would still have a provincial government ?

 

[Oscar]

no. I am not saying Govt schemed something so the KPK assembly presented that bill; I meant its media coverage. Media could have selected any other distracting news, but this was a perfect fit. Another reason is Uzma Bukhari's media briefing on this matter (though it was another province matter and Punjab assembly members have similar facilities)

Otherwise , the bill was mal-intended as it was not discussed openly. On top of that, the KPK assembly is discussing punishing journalists now:

"The Khyber Pakhtunkhwa Assembly has passed legislation introducing penalties, including imprisonment, fines, and restrictions on journalists covering assembly proceedings.
Under the new law, the speaker of the assembly has the authority to bar any journalist from covering proceedings of the house.
The legislation also provides for penalties of up to six months' imprisonment and fines of up to one million Pakistani rupees for violations of its provisions."

That is to bury this kind of news.

Even if assume the KP bill is being amplified to divert attention from Ishaq Dar’s family scandal, that does not make the bill any less abusive. A real power grab is still a real power grab, and press restrictions deserve exposure on their own terms. The answer to one abuse of power is not to bury another.

 

[Blueishere]

He setup the party election system from grassroot level.

Says who?

Who do you think rule KP on PTI behalf ? How many of PTI MPAs in KP assembly are well-known politicians and so-called lotas ?

The current MPAs in KPK assembly are not even tier-1 leadership of PTI because Tier-1 and Tier-2 were forced to leave politics, join other parties, or jailed.

Do you think if it was any other party, it would still have a provincial government ?

So you get rid of 10-15 people and your entire party collapses? Thats not how actual political parties work my friend.

 

[Oscar]

He setup the party election system from grassroot level.

No he did not -he had a very VERY broad idea - those who did it were the actual initial party members and cadre who proposed the entire structures to him and then he agreed with it.

PTI supporters love retelling it as if IK sat alone one day, wrote the blueprint, assembled the party, built its machinery, recruited every serious person, formulated every policy, and then personally carried it to power. That is cult history, not how political parties work. A celebrity leader can provide the brand and momentum; it still takes a lot of people with actual political, organisational, and ideological labour to make a party functional.

And frankly, even after PTI became a serious political force, much of the governing and organisational work was done by people around him with sometimes competent people, sometimes opportunists, sometimes people imposed on the party by circumstances and power centres. IK was the ringmaster: charismatic, stubborn, able to mobilise crowds, and often hot-headed. But the whole “everything good was Imran’s genius, everything bad was someone else’s conspiracy” story does not work.

Other than being a hot-headed ringmaster, a lot of it was simply not his circus, not his monkeys.

 

[Oscar]

Says who?

So you get rid of 10-15 people and your entire party collapses? Thats not how actual political parties work my friend.

This thread was about Ishaq Dar and the allegations involving his grandson, and somehow we are now talking about Imran Khan.
Why? Because for a PTI supporter every subject has to become a referendum on IK.

If this must turn it into a party structure discussion, then PTI is largely a personality cult built around Khan, while PML-N is more of a dynastic patronage mafia machine. Loyalty, access, protection, family links, business interests, and political power move through a controlled hierarchy while PTI struggles when its central personality is removed because so much of its identity and mobilisation is attached to one man.

Even if establishment patronage disappears - PML-N can keep limping along because the Sharif family, electables, business networks, and patronage system remain in place.

That is also why PML-N is leaning harder into dynastic politics: it is how it survives. PPP has endured in much the same way since Bhutto is both a cult symbol and a family brand, but the party also has a deep patronage structure and entrenched control in Sindh. In Pakistan, the mafia+cult model is more durable than a pure cult of personality.

SO this thread was about Dar .If the response is “but Imran Khan,” then it's trying to validate an identity built around IK. Every issue has to end with him being proven right, vindicated, or made the victim and every criticism of anyone else has to be diluted with “but what about Imran?”.

If someone actually wanted reform, they would be able to say two basic things at once: hold Dar’s family and anyone involved accountable if the allegations are proven, and hold PTI and IK accountable wherever they abused power too.
Even from the forum's perspective they can simply not drag PTI as some comparison or choose to ignore anti-PTI posts..
BUT
If you cannot do that without dragging every thread back to your leader, then you are not defending Pakistan but your own emotional structure built around one man.