Reason behind the Rise & Fall of the Muslim Mind & Power?

What islamic rise? Post industrial world was completely dominated by west. Before that muslims were not particularly anything special compared to others, especially the so called golden age of Islam is nothing special. Must of Islam expansion can be thanked to Turks converting.

Ancient Pakistanis also had golden age in Indus valley era and then vedic era when our ancestors discovered zero. This is where arabs and persian learned math.

Westerners toke all these eastern inventions and discoveries to help them in industrial revolution.
golden age....what are you referring to!

how can you say such a thing?

no evidence

the invention or conceptualisation of zero is all well and good.

but they didnt get much out if it did they? how is that a golden age?

the industrial revolution is associated with other advancements in human development that led to overall everyone being better off..... which to this day are non existent in south asia.

I would not brag about ancient times when some basic lessons are not yet assimilated into the society,
 
If you have to pin it on a singular factor, then none qualifies more than the rise of Turks both in Ottoman and Mughal Empires respectively, the first controlling the whole world trade through it's strategic location and the latter being the biggest economy in the world, neither cultivated or patronized science and learning with their enormous resources.

Both were engaged in complacency, opulence, luxurious lifestyles and debauchery with their harems and useless monument building and patronage of sufi charlatans and singers/dancers.

Not exactly. The ruler's patronage came in result of the overall society's pursuit of knowledge. When the power centers in the late Abbasid period weakend, the gaps were filled by religious 'extremists' who exploited the common man's lack of knowledge and abundance of insecurities/emotions to replace science with illiterate dogma. These were the same religious wannabe scholars who until then had been sidelined by the robust academic principles of the Muslim scholarly circles. The Mongol invasion destroyed the academic institutions and turned the power gaps into a vacuum leading to an epidemic of religious dogma trumping science and reason. Today, whose works have been refuted and debunked for hundreds of years are afforded Devine authority without reason.

The decadence of the Mughals and the Ottomans came in the later half, just as it did with the Arabs.

We know that only those converted to Islam during Mughal Rule, who were very poor and mostly from Dalit caste of Hindus.
Those who were not able to pay Jaziya Tax, those who looking for economic help from Mughal government in case of adopting Islam, were belonging to poorest Caste of Hindu community 🕳️

So they decided to convert and pay more in Zakaat? These desperate attempts at reconciling the cognitive dissonance born from your own people rejecting your ways for the other are a little archaic, no?

What islamic rise? Post industrial world was completely dominated by west. Before that muslims were not particularly anything special compared to others, especially the so called golden age of Islam is nothing special. Must of Islam expansion can be thanked to Turks converting.

Every single thing that you've mentioned is nonsense. Modern advanced Mathematics', Physics', Medicine's, and Chemistry's foundations were laid by Muslim scholars during that time and industrialization was later built upon it. Half the sky has Arabic names. The Arab/Muslim empire was the largest, most powerful, and most advanced empire the world had seen until then. The West, itself, readily acknowledges all of this. Below was the largest extent of the Ummayyad Empire. Please let us know exactly how much further did the Turks spread it.


1745424617639.png

golden age....what are you referring to!

how can you say such a thing?

no evidence

the invention or conceptualisation of zero is all well and good.

but they didnt get much out if it did they? how is that a golden age?

The Indus Valley Civilization was a marvel at its time and a true golden age for those people, along side the Sumerians, Egyptians, and Chinese. It pioneered ways in agriculture, governance, trade, industry, and city planning. It was probably the most peaceful and well off major civilization that the world has ever seen, relatively speaking.
 
Last edited:
Steve Karamitsis,mate.

The weird thing is,there's Muslims who are trying to find their identity by becoming radicalized,their Muslims trying to be more open and then blamed of being Western slaves,there's Muslims who are trying to be both modern and traditional,but stuck in political games.

You've correctly identified the three choices.

We have the two extremes where, to take one example, the religious fanatics want all women to wear a burqa and men to have a beard. Then we have the illiberal fanatics who forbid women to wear even a headscarf and who see any man with a beard as a terrorist (except white men who are seen as hipsters, LOL).

Muslims are told by these extremists that it is impossible for tradition and modernity to go hand in hand, that they must chose one or the other, but the Chinese and Hindus give the lie to this false ultimatum. The same can be said of Eastern Europeans who have maintained traditional Christian culture.

All these groups have embraced modern knowledge without compromising on their culture and traditions. They confirm that it is completely possible for tradition and modernity to go hand in hand.

We know that only those converted to Islam during Mughal Rule, who were very poor and mostly from Dalit caste of Hindus.
Those who were not able to pay Jaziya Tax, those who looking for economic help from Mughal government in case of adopting Islam, were belonging to poorest Caste of Hindu community 🕳️

You are correct that most converts were Dalits but you are putting a negative spin on it. The reason for conversion was that Hinduism doomed them and their children to the lowly status forever, but Islam freed them from this bondage and gave them equality as human beings.
 
We know that only those converted to Islam during Mughal Rule, who were very poor and mostly from Dalit caste of Hindus.
Those who were not able to pay Jaziya Tax, those who looking for economic help from Mughal government in case of adopting Islam, were belonging to poorest Caste of Hindu community 🕳️
There's no proof jiziya was universally imposed during mughal rule. With the only exception of Aurangzeb almost all were drunk atheists or polytheist. Besides mughal rule where they controlled large parts of India only lasted around 150 years, not enough to change the dynamics of conversions and converts.
 
Love & Lust of Dictatorship based Dynasties

Most Muslim Rulers self destruct once they believe in Dictatorship and visualizing their Children as next King

  • Modern time Muslim states vanish on average 75-120 years


There has never been a perfect example of Muslim rule
Often civil war and Princes overthrowing King has happened many times

But Ottoman were 300+ years successful so they were exception


Pakistan is what 70-80 year old , already we are burried in Debt
 
Last edited:
We know that only those converted to Islam during Mughal Rule, who were very poor and mostly from Dalit caste of Hindus.
Those who were not able to pay Jaziya Tax, those who looking for economic help from Mughal government in case of adopting Islam, were belonging to poorest Caste of Hindu community 🕳️
This is a misconception. Why would moghal convert the dalits and shudhars? and hurt their jaziya tax collection?

Moghals were not chutiye........the more the dalits and shudhars the higher the tax revenue.

Moghals didn't really intermingle with the locals much until very late in the dynasty.

Moghal soldiers were either Uzbek or Afghanis and the administrators/ intellectuals were all Iranis.

They spoke Persiandd bhai......not Punjabi or Telagu no?

Also, overwhelming mass conversions to Islam or to Christy X-Tianism took place during the British occupation and colonization, when the Indians were mistreated like animals and abolished the jaziya and itervened with the British tax laws.
 
Last edited:
is that why muslims were among some of the largest landowners in india at the time of independence?
Look, there is a diffrence between India and Pakistan including East Pakistan.
The Maratha Rule, after a complete ending of Mughal Rule, which continued from early -mid 18th century to the year 1818, when Peshwa was forced to take British pension, it confirm that the very last Rule of South Asia was Hindu Rule, 'the Hindu Land', which was led by Maratha who lost to British by 1818.......
We heard, similar to Peshwa of Maratha Rule, it was hard to see Muslim kings among British pensioners, and why they were not worth like Hindu kings like Peshwa of Hindu Rule, it has been a issue 🕳️
 
Mughals became p@jeetified after marrying too many hindu women besides indulging in decadence and debauchery.
Considering Jaziya Tax etc, do we have data's of Tax collection ratio between Hindus and Muslims during Mughal Rule?
Many claims, if we consider the benefits Muslims were said to be getting, Hindus were paying more than 95% taxes to Mughal Rule, mainly through Jaziya Tax 🕳️
 
Mughals became p@jeetified after marrying too many hindu women besides indulging in decadence and debauchery.
Issy liye Nadir Shah aya thaa aur in key bhund lugga k chala gya! Sub un say chheen ker lay gya.......

Iran washed its hands supporting them and let them turn into dalits.

Mughal chutiyon k peechhay Iran bettha tha. Issy liye vo farsi boltay thay.......lol
 
To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.


I just came to know that earlier Muslim scholars were from the merchant class, like many Prophets. These scholars were independent in their opinion and were not under the government's patronage.

This freedom of idea was the man reason for early rise of Islam.

@_NOBODY_ @Waz @HRK

Banking system. Simple as that.
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Pakistan Defence Latest

Latest Posts

Back
Top