Reforming Command Without Weakening It - Part 1 - A Pragmatic Approach for Systemic reform in Pakistan starting with the Army

[Oscar]

The issue i see is the civilian leadership is corrupt and highly incompetent, who is stopping them from fixing Pakistan issues, development, better law and order. The army only intervenes when something serious happens or when something will lead to serious issues. Any army in the world will intervene, in the western world if the situation goes out of control their army will impose emergency rule to bring law and order back but they are not needed because the civilian leadership and police can restore law and order. Overall unfortunely Pakistan is a weak state, our public cannot decide right from wrong, leadership always plays dirty politics, misuses power, we have big issues with personality worship, it has to be their own leader or nothing. What Pakistan needs is a few new political parties, with fresh faces, people who are educated, want to bring peace and unity to Pakistan, work with all institutions to build a strong Pakistan.

If the same families or rather population that staffs the population is still what ends up staffing the military - how do you propose the cultural aspect of relationsips be overcome where these elements in the military with corrupt relationships in the civillian structrue dont engage in corruption to save them?
Or even vice versa?

It is impossible to blame one element because the biggest flawed assumption made is that the military is foreign (and unfortunately that is repeatedly pushed as a narrative by whichever political party is at that time against the establishment) while not recognizing that it is the same elements involved.

To change the elements, help improve the most effective institutions ability to discern those elements even better - which open the door for improvement elsewhere.

 

[mythbuster]

Or the establishment is insecure.
Chicken or the egg.

The way to address this is NOT to tackle one issue - but rather look at the overall national characteristic that creates this - and instead of demonizing one arm of the state - enable it to recognize patterns so it can then encourage the other parts to get over theirs.

You occasionally get off the track and get too theoretical and wishy washy ...how are you going to implement what you are preaching?

 

[Oscar]

You occasionally get off the track and get too theoretical and wishy washy ...how are you going to implement what you are preaching?

What is the off the track?
I told you blaming one party is frankly idiotic because it is a national issue that is surfaced most vociferously in the strongest institution.

What is your alternative?

 

[mythbuster]

What is the off the track?
I told you blaming one party is frankly idiotic because it is a national issue that is surfaced most vociferously in the strongest institution.

What is your alternative?

What are you expecting ? All the institutions be that military or civilian will get revelations during their sleeps and will wake up as reformed entities

 

[Solomon2]

Reading this thread...Oz, do you seek to install or reform in Pakistan the mechanisms of democratic-republican governance without promoting the Lockean philosophies that inspired and guided their implementation in Britain and the U.S.?

 

[Aggregate]

If the "deeper problem" is the civilian political institutions, I do not see why reforming the P.A. should be a priority. Why shouldn't strengthening civil institutions be a better approach?

Not necessarily increased civilian politician's control over the army, but increased internal safety: freedom of speech (including offensive speech), freedom of religion, safety from violence, etc.

Years ago, in like debates, Pakistan's leaders resisted, saying: "If we did those things, what would we become? North India?" It was an identity crisis they could not resolve or wish to change.

Is Pakistan so different today?

Aside from all treehugging brigade who want Pakistan to be a lala land, the reality is that this is a world where countries like Iraq, Syria, Lebanon, Palestine, Libya, etc are eaten up and nobody even apologizes and none of the things you mentioned matter, in that case.

The Army has to defend Pakistan against an 8 times larger neighbour on one side who are hellbent on eating away North Pakistan and on the other side is a global menace of Taliban hellbent on eating away Western half of Pakistan.

So the Army has to do what it has to do, to maintain itself with no compromises, no bottlenecks and no external weaknesses. And it has worked until now in face of all external threats. You won't see an Army that is fighting 20 different problems internally while deterring both India & Afghanistan, maintaining diplomacy along with nuclear deterrence, developing world class defensive and offensive tools and brokering peace for a major world power, all at the same time. 20 different democratic, free, wealthy governments in Europe cannot handle Russia alone, let alone any other major problem (and no, people there are not better off, I have lived in many of them and their lives are mostly miserable in so many more social ways, even if they have money)

It does come at an expense of a lot of problems internally (problems with democracy, economy, freedoms etc), but we can't undermine the army for those kind of spare-time luxuries (yes, they are very much spare-time luxuries in Pakistan's context, we are not located in the middle of Scandanavia). The Army has done more than any other army in the world could have, given our situation and in face of far, far worse options, they are perfect for Pakistan as they are and as they operate. If someone can perform better than they can given the bigger picture, then they are free to criticize.

 

[Aggregate]

Problem with Pakistan, is that NOBODY inside Pakistan, wants to fix it

I heard Mustansar Hussain Tarar (childhood morning show host) tell a story once:

I was riding with a well educated middle aged lawyer, he was driving the car, ranting nonstop about how corrupt the politicians are and how there is no rule of law in Pakistan.

Then came a red signal. He paused talking, looked left, looked right, saw the traffic sargent was busy, pushed the pedal and flew past the red signal .. I asked him why he did that and he replied, "I am lawyer, they can do nothing to me, don't worry, we can raise hell if anyone touches us".

Then he continued his ranting against the politicans, Army, etc, etc being the reaosn for no rule of law and corruption in Pakistan ...

and this is an educated lawyer presented with the laws that he is supposed to uphold ..while he is screaming about them ... pretty much sums up the reality of Pakistan from top to bottom. Most in Pakistan act this way in positions of power or if they do get powers later .. they just find it easy to dump their blame on govt and institutions, including the issues they are themselves a part of. It will take our country China styled beating up to improve, nothing less will work.