Tang dynasty battles with the caliphate

[MH.Yang]

Yes a legendary commander and great icon of China.
When you say they are an ethnic group their genetics, language and culture is near identical to the Han. Is it because of faith and very distant ancestry they get that classification?

The Hui ethnic group is a mixed race descendant of Han Chinese and Arab Empire merchants (Arabs and Persians, in the eyes of ancient Chinese people, the two were the same ethnic group). You can consider it as a branch of the Han ethnic group, or a Han ethnic group that believes in Islam. The Hui ethnic group is a millennium old ally of the Han ethnic group and a representative ethnic group of Chinese Muslims.

 

[SteppeWolff]

Do you seriously not have anything better to do than try pretend being a Turkic Uzbek and try divide Turks?

You are a Greek. I know what you are

 

[Indos]

The sectarianism in this part of the world is mad.
But doesn't exist among Turks.
I assume its same in Indonesia too?

Yup pretty much we dont have the sectarian tension as fierce as in the Middle East, maybe just like in Turkiye, 99 % of Muslim here are Sunni

Despite so, real bloody things did happen when Indonesia has big communist party and place at the fourth place in 1955 election (we have practiced democracy after the Independence, but then become authoritarian since 1959 until 1998)

Communist power just being demolished for short time in 1966 while it is the third largest communist power in the world after USSR, China during that time

 

[retaxis]

The only people who ever ruled china outside of Han Chinese were Mongols and Manchurians/Jurchens.

China has never been ruled by Turks i don't know why MMME keeps repeating that. In fact China ruled over turks for a long time and pushed them west.

Emperor Taizong of the Tang Dynasty (Li Shimin) earned the title Heavenly Khan (Tian Kehan) in 630 CE after defeating the Eastern Turkic Khaganate. [1, 2, 3]
This dual role allowed him to rule simultaneously as a traditional Chinese Emperor (Son of Heaven) and as the supreme overlord of the nomadic steppe tribes. [1, 2, 3, 4]

Historical Context

• • Military Victory: General Li Jing defeated the Eastern Turks and captured Illig Khagan, making the Tang Empire the dominant power in East and Central Asia. [1, 2]
  • Nomadic Recognition: Tribal leaders of the northern steppes offered Taizong the title Tian Kehan, elevating him above standard khans by invoking "Heaven" (Tengri), which bridged Chinese and Turkic concepts of supreme rule. [1, 2, 3]
  • Cosmopolitan Rule: Taizong treated nomadic subjects with unusual equity, integrating foreign soldiers, traders, and officials into the cosmopolitan capital of Chang'an. [1, 2]

Significance of the Dual Title

• • Son of Heaven (Huangdi): Reflected his legitimacy under traditional Chinese Confucian governance.
  • Heavenly Khan (Tian Kehan): Acknowledged his supreme authority over pastoral and nomadic border societies.
  • Legacy: The title was used by several of Taizong's successors well into the 8th century. [1, 2, 3]

 

[retaxis]

The only people who ever ruled china outside of Han Chinese were Mongols and Manchurians/Jurchens.

China has never been ruled by Turks i don't know why MMME keeps repeating that. In fact China ruled over turks for a long time and pushed them west.

Emperor Taizong of the Tang Dynasty (Li Shimin) earned the title Heavenly Khan (Tian Kehan) in 630 CE after defeating the Eastern Turkic Khaganate. [1, 2, 3]
This dual role allowed him to rule simultaneously as a traditional Chinese Emperor (Son of Heaven) and as the supreme overlord of the nomadic steppe tribes. [1, 2, 3, 4]

Historical Context

• • Military Victory: General Li Jing defeated the Eastern Turks and captured Illig Khagan, making the Tang Empire the dominant power in East and Central Asia. [1, 2]
  • Nomadic Recognition: Tribal leaders of the northern steppes offered Taizong the title Tian Kehan, elevating him above standard khans by invoking "Heaven" (Tengri), which bridged Chinese and Turkic concepts of supreme rule. [1, 2, 3]
  • Cosmopolitan Rule: Taizong treated nomadic subjects with unusual equity, integrating foreign soldiers, traders, and officials into the cosmopolitan capital of Chang'an. [1, 2]

Significance of the Dual Title

• • Son of Heaven (Huangdi): Reflected his legitimacy under traditional Chinese Confucian governance.
  • Heavenly Khan (Tian Kehan): Acknowledged his supreme authority over pastoral and nomadic border societies.
  • Legacy: The title was used by several of Taizong's successors well into the 8th century. [1, 2, 3]

After Eastern Turk khaganate fell, China took out the West as well. Its history not opinion.

Battle of Irtysh River - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Conquest of the Western Turks - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[MMM-E]

The only people who ever ruled china outside of Han Chinese were Mongols and Manchurians/Jurchens.

China has never been ruled by Turks i don't know why MMME keeps repeating that. In fact China ruled over turks for a long time and pushed them west.

China has been ruled either entirely or in part by Turkic Peoples and their direct nomadic ancestors for centuries.

Summary Table of Turkic Imperial Presence in China

Dynasty / Power	Era	Turkic Group Involved	Scope of Rule
Northern Wei (Tabgach)	386–535 CE	Xianbei / Turkic	Ruled all of Northern China
Sui & Tang Dynasties	581–907 CE	Mixed Han / Turkic Elite	Ruled the entirety of China
Later Tang, Jin, & Han	923–951 CE	Shatuo Turks	Ruled Northern China Proper

 

[MH.Yang]

China has been ruled either entirely or in part by Turkic Peoples and their direct nomadic ancestors for centuries.

Summary Table of Turkic Imperial Presence in China

Dynasty / Power	Era	Turkic Group Involved	Scope of Rule
Northern Wei (Tabgach)	386–535 CE	Xianbei / Turkic	Ruled all of Northern China
Sui & Tang Dynasties	581–907 CE	Mixed Han / Turkic Elite	Ruled the entirety of China
Later Tang, Jin, & Han	923–951 CE	Shatuo Turks	Ruled Northern China Proper

During this period, there were indeed some senior officials with Turkic ancestry in China, but this does not mean that the ruling group was Turkic. There is no doubt that the Han people held absolute leadership in these dynasties, not the Turks. Your logic is similar to the absurdity that the United States is an Indian colony because former US Vice President Harris has some Indian ancestry.

There are only two non Han dynasties in China, the Mongol Yuan Dynasty and the Manchu Qing Dynasty.

 

[retaxis]

China has been ruled either entirely or in part by Turkic Peoples and their direct nomadic ancestors for centuries.

Summary Table of Turkic Imperial Presence in China

Dynasty / Power	Era	Turkic Group Involved	Scope of Rule
Northern Wei (Tabgach)	386–535 CE	Xianbei / Turkic	Ruled all of Northern China
Sui & Tang Dynasties	581–907 CE	Mixed Han / Turkic Elite	Ruled the entirety of China
Later Tang, Jin, & Han	923–951 CE	Shatuo Turks	Ruled Northern China Proper

There were some turkic mercenaries who were conquered and assimilated but Turks never came close to ruling china

thats like saying India conquered much of the world because they served under british...

Turks have a proud history, but you don't need to fabricate scenarios which are completely false.

 

[MMM-E]

During this period, there were indeed some senior officials with Turkic ancestry in China, but this does not mean that the ruling group was Turkic. There is no doubt that the Han people held absolute leadership in these dynasties, not the Turks. Your logic is similar to the absurdity that the United States is an Indian colony because former US Vice President Harris has some Indian ancestry.

India never fought USA , they never entered USA and They never occupied even part of USA

But Turkic Peoples fought China , entered China and occupied part of China

The Northern Dynasties Era (386–581 CE)
During the "Sixteen Kingdoms" and "Northern and Southern Dynasties" periods, northern China was completely conquered by nomadic coalitions heavily comprising Turkic-Mongolic peoples

Also GOKTURK Empire

Dosya:GökTürk Empire.jpg - Vikipedi

tr.wikipedia.org

 

[Master Chief]

In our Turkish history, just as we were about to capture Vienna,
but 40,000 Crimean Tatars betrayed the Turks by refusing to fight against the Polish forces. The Polish forces then attacked from behind with heavy artillery, inflicting heavy losses on the Ottoman Army

and this led to the Great Turkish War, a 16-year conflict involving against Russian, Polish, German, Italian, Spanish, and Hungarian armies in 6 fronts between 1683 and 1699

If we had taken Vienna, we would have conquered Europe in the 17th century

Vienna was a key turning point in history. The weather betrayed the Turks at the previous attempt on Vienna by Suleiman 1st.

 

[Anatolia]

Yup pretty much we dont have the sectarian tension as fierce as in the Middle East, maybe just like in Turkiye, 99 % of Muslim here are Sunni

Despite so, real bloody things did happen when Indonesia has big communist party and place at the fourth place in 1955 election (we have practiced democracy after the Independence, but then become authoritarian since 1959 until 1998)

Communist power just being demolished for short time in 1966 while it is the third largest communist power in the world after USSR, China during that time

Sectarianism has never been a defining issue for Turks. Whether in the Seljuk era, the Ottomans, or modern Türkiye, the state and society were shaped far more by political loyalty, military hierarchy, and imperial administration than by sectarian divides. The big sectarian conflicts in the region historically came from Persian and Arab political struggles, not from Turkic societies. That’s just how the history played out.

From my own experience, the strongest sectarian obsession tends to come from certain Persian‑influenced communities, and you can see how that mindset spread into parts of Pakistan too. But even then, it’s still nothing comparable to something like communism — which was a full ideological movement with political parties, militias, and state structures behind it.

Islam wasn’t meant to be a religion where Muslims fight each other over sect labels. So when sectarianism appears, it’s embarrassing because it’s a political sickness, not a religious necessity. It’s people turning identity into a weapon instead of focusing on unity.

Compared to that, Indonesia’s communist episode was a completely different scale — an ideological conflict that turned into a national crisis. Sectarian tension in the Muslim world shouldn’t even be in the same category. It’s a social problem, not a political ideology, and it’s sad that it exists at all.

 

[Anatolia]

China has been ruled either entirely or in part by Turkic Peoples and their direct nomadic ancestors for centuries.

Summary Table of Turkic Imperial Presence in China

Dynasty / Power	Era	Turkic Group Involved	Scope of Rule
Northern Wei (Tabgach)	386–535 CE	Xianbei / Turkic	Ruled all of Northern China
Sui & Tang Dynasties	581–907 CE	Mixed Han / Turkic Elite	Ruled the entirety of China
Later Tang, Jin, & Han	923–951 CE	Shatuo Turks	Ruled Northern China Proper

Turks never ruled China.

Turkic empires ruled ​

Turkic states like:

• Göktürks
• Uyghurs
• Karakhanids
• Khitan (proto‑Mongolic but steppe‑related)
• Western Liao
• Qara Khitai

ruled Central Asia, Mongolia, and parts of northern China’s frontier — but never the Chinese heartland.

 

[retaxis]

India never fought USA , they never entered USA and They never occupied even part of USA

But Turkic Peoples fought China , entered China and occupied part of China

The Northern Dynasties Era (386–581 CE)
During the "Sixteen Kingdoms" and "Northern and Southern Dynasties" periods, northern China was completely conquered by nomadic coalitions heavily comprising Turkic-Mongolic peoples

Also GOKTURK Empire
View attachment 211683

Dosya:GökTürk Empire.jpg - Vikipedi

tr.wikipedia.org

Lets use a real map and see that Gokturk never conquered China. Sui China was doing its own thing and later Tang conquered the Eastern and Western Turkish Khaganates

 

[retaxis]

Turks have a long and proud history and all historians know about it

but you don't need to steal other peoples history to try and boost your own.

 

[MMM-E]

Turks never ruled China.

Turkic empires ruled ​

Turkic Empires were our ancestors
learn about Turkish history since Great Hunnic Emperor METE KHAN ( 209 BC )

Turks did not come to Anatolia from outer space; Turks came from Central Asia which hosted Turkic Empires