TF-X / KAAN / Hürjet Turkish Fighter & Trainer Aircrafts News & Discussions

[Oublious]

The world is changing, technology evolve and everybody who invest will take ther share of the pie. They can stil not believe what is happening...

 

[MMM-E]

In the aviation sector, the NATO Countries capable of applying Superplastic Forming to titanium alloys are USA, The UK , France , Sweden and most recently Turkiye, which has achieved this capability with the DİLEK Project

Turkiye becomes a Country to produce Fighter Jet in NATO

USA
The UK
France
Sweden
Turkiye

 

[MMM-E]

The opening of the TR Motor center, where KAAN's indigenous engine TF35000 and its subsystems will be tested, has been carried out.

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[Michael]

What a coincidence...

TUSAŞ Engine Industries Inc:

"We have successfully developed the superplastic forming process—a hot forming method for titanium alloys, which are preferred in aerospace applications due to their high performance under demanding conditions—and made it available to our country’s aerospace industry. Through the DİLEK project, we have enabled the manufacture of large and complex titanium alloy components—intended for use in aircraft fuselages and engines—in a single operation under conditions specific to our country"

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This question is indeed somewhat difficult to understand. To put it simply, the strength of titanium alloy alone is far from sufficient to meet the technical requirements.

Thousands of years ago, humans learned forging techniques. It uses hammering to eliminate internal imperfections in metal, altering its crystal structure and thus increasing its strength.

In modern industry, an upgraded version of this process, "die forging," is frequently used to manufacture special load-bearing structural components. However, this process is mainly used for small parts and steel components, with pressures primarily in the thousands of tons range.

When developing the F-22 fighter jet, the Americans independently developed a super-heavy, one-piece die forging machine, pioneering the use of large-scale die forging technology to manufacture the F-22's titanium alloy mid-frame. It precisely applies tens of thousands of tons of pressure to the titanium alloy workpiece, forming a high-strength structural component.

The Soviet Union/Russia also had super-heavy die forging machines. However, their precision machining capabilities were insufficient, resulting in workpieces manufactured by these machines failing to meet the required precision and internal mechanical balance. Therefore, Russia can only adopt a modular structure. ------ France once purchased one of these heavy machines from the Soviet Union.

In the early stages of the J-20 fighter jet development, China lacked a super-heavy, one-piece forging machine and had to resort to a splicing process. In 2013, China National Erzhong Group successfully developed an 80,000-ton super-heavy, one-piece forging machine. After numerous trials and adjustments, the machine began mass production of these titanium alloy mid-frames.

==================================

The core of this process is not molding, but rather altering the internal structure of the material through pressure of tens of thousands of tons. This shape can certainly be manufactured using 3D titanium alloy printing or other molding technologies. However, the structural strength of their workpieces is not even in the same league.

Tesla pioneered this technology in automotive manufacturing (6,000-ton level) when producing the Model Y. Later, in the production of the Cybertruck, they increased the pressure to the 9,000-ton level. Some Chinese companies followed suit, currently achieving pressures of 10,000-16,000 tons.

These machines used in car manufacturing can only use aluminum alloys, and the pressure requirements are vastly different from those for fighter jets. Even so, a single civilian-grade integrated die-casting machine costs around 100 million yuan. The cost of a military-grade ultra-heavy integrated die-casting machine ranges from hundreds of millions to billions of US dollars.

 

[HAIDER]

This question is indeed somewhat difficult to understand. To put it simply, the strength of titanium alloy alone is far from sufficient to meet the technical requirements.

Thousands of years ago, humans learned forging techniques. It uses hammering to eliminate internal imperfections in metal, altering its crystal structure and thus increasing its strength.

In modern industry, an upgraded version of this process, "die forging," is frequently used to manufacture special load-bearing structural components. However, this process is mainly used for small parts and steel components, with pressures primarily in the thousands of tons range.

When developing the F-22 fighter jet, the Americans independently developed a super-heavy, one-piece die forging machine, pioneering the use of large-scale die forging technology to manufacture the F-22's titanium alloy mid-frame. It precisely applies tens of thousands of tons of pressure to the titanium alloy workpiece, forming a high-strength structural component.

The Soviet Union/Russia also had super-heavy die forging machines. However, their precision machining capabilities were insufficient, resulting in workpieces manufactured by these machines failing to meet the required precision and internal mechanical balance. Therefore, Russia can only adopt a modular structure. ------ France once purchased one of these heavy machines from the Soviet Union.

In the early stages of the J-20 fighter jet development, China lacked a super-heavy, one-piece forging machine and had to resort to a splicing process. In 2013, China National Erzhong Group successfully developed an 80,000-ton super-heavy, one-piece forging machine. After numerous trials and adjustments, the machine began mass production of these titanium alloy mid-frames.

==================================

The core of this process is not molding, but rather altering the internal structure of the material through pressure of tens of thousands of tons. This shape can certainly be manufactured using 3D titanium alloy printing or other molding technologies. However, the structural strength of their workpieces is not even in the same league.

Tesla pioneered this technology in automotive manufacturing (6,000-ton level) when producing the Model Y. Later, in the production of the Cybertruck, they increased the pressure to the 9,000-ton level. Some Chinese companies followed suit, currently achieving pressures of 10,000-16,000 tons.

These machines used in car manufacturing can only use aluminum alloys, and the pressure requirements are vastly different from those for fighter jets. Even so, a single civilian-grade integrated die-casting machine costs around 100 million yuan. The cost of a military-grade ultra-heavy integrated die-casting machine ranges from hundreds of millions to billions of US dollars.

Large scale die forging for the F-22 Raptor relies on the Heavy Press Program, which utilizes massive, multi story hydraulic presses to form high strength structural components. By forcing heated titanium billets into precise closed dies under extreme tonnage, manufacturers create massive, lightweight, and incredibly durable parts that define the stealth fighter's airframe

 

[Michael]

Large-scale die forging for the F-22 Raptor relies on the Heavy Press Program, which utilizes massive, multi-story hydraulic presses to form high-strength structural components. By forcing heated titanium billets into precise closed dies under extreme tonnage, manufacturers create massive, lightweight, and incredibly durable parts that define the stealth fighter's airframe

YES.

I don't speak English. I use Chinese terminology and then translate it into English using translation software. There may be many issues with the terminology involved.

==================================

I need to add some clarification:

This process represents the optimal solution under current technological conditions.
That is, fifth-generation fighter jets can also be manufactured using other technologies. We can still use traditional assembly processes, unibody aluminum alloy molding processes, titanium alloy 3D printing processes, and so on. However, these methods all require a greater investment of space.

Türkiye's ability to manufacture KAAN is a remarkable achievement on a global scale. However, it remains a long way from the goals envisioned by some Turkish nationalists.

China regularly conducts nationwide industrial censuses, one of the purposes of which is to investigate and understand which industrial capabilities we still lack (and which we must rely on for imports). Anyone who can identify any undiscovered problems in our industrial capabilities will be rewarded. ------ But here, this would be seen as "anti-Turkish." That's the truly ridiculous issue.

 

[Sinan]

What a coincidence...

TUSAŞ Engine Industries Inc:

"We have successfully developed the superplastic forming process—a hot forming method for titanium alloys, which are preferred in aerospace applications due to their high performance under demanding conditions—and made it available to our country’s aerospace industry. Through the DİLEK project, we have enabled the manufacture of large and complex titanium alloy components—intended for use in aircraft fuselages and engines—in a single operation under conditions specific to our country"

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Dilek Project started in 2014 and finalized in 2017. When TEI first stated that they are going to produce a Turboshaft engine (TS-1400).

I wonder why they are mentioning a project that have been completed 9 years ago.

 

[BonPlan]

Sensor fusion is the mathematical and algorithmic theory behind this work.

Indeed. And some mastered it better than others. See 2011 Swiss eval for exemple.

 

[BonPlan]

Time
France can do all these but not before 2045
( there is still no official project launched both new Fighter Jet and new Engine )

So , only RAFALE F5 until 2045

LOL.
Do you imagine the R&D effort financed but step 1B is lost? At the end 2 different configurations were fine tuned (probably one prefered by the german and one by the french). Next step will rely on this.
I will not be surprised to see a flying demonstrator at Le Bourget 2029. may be earlier.

 

[BonPlan]

The frames (bulkheads) of the KF-21 are manufactured from aluminum alloys instead of titanium

Is there only a fighter built in mass using titanium for all the frames ? no.

 

[BonPlan]

@BonPlan ;

When will France consider the "M108" engine? Not the M88-4, but the M108? Please don't equate me with @MMM-E; I'm not asking to create a polemic, but purely for informational purposes. What is France's roadmap for engines in the class of, say, the P&W F119 or P&W F135? Because it's clear that the M88 is becoming obsolete.

M88 is as modern as F414. The actual M88 is not the same than the first one : some of the 21 modules have been changed so as to reduce fuel consumption (instead of thrust, according to the main customer : France).

The next step is a brand new engine. It is not sure that it will have variable cycle, but the temperature of the core is expected to be in the 2200°K range. The US tecnological level remains unmatch, but SAFRAN is probably the 2nd best in class thanks to huge research & developpment programs made year after year.

 

[Flotilla]

In the aviation sector, the NATO Countries capable of applying Superplastic Forming to titanium alloys are USA, The UK , France , Sweden and most recently Turkiye, which has achieved this capability with the DİLEK Project

Turkiye becomes a Country to produce Fighter Jet in NATO

USA
The UK
France
Sweden
Turkiye

And Sweden without engine.
That makes Turkey more admirable.