TF-X / KAAN / Hürjet Turkish Fighter & Trainer Aircrafts News & Discussions

[hyperman]

Interesting....
If Turkey has more potent SAM than S400, why showing attention to SAMP/T ?

Stopgap.

SIPER Block 3/4 is likely not going to be ready until 2028+ and even then initial operational capability and full maturity takes some time.

 

[MMM-E]

AESA Radar technologies - 5th gen Fighters

Fighter Jet	Radar Designation	Core Semiconductor	Estimated T/R Modules	Estimated Detection Range (for 1 m² target)	Key Specialization
F-22 Raptor	AN/APG-77	GaAs	2,000	200 – 230 km	Optimized for raw air-to-air tracking power and narrow electronic focus.
TAI KAAN	MURAD-600A	Next-Gen GaN	2000+	180 – 200 km	High thermal limits allow it to track many fast targets across multiple bands.
F-35 Lightning II	AN/APG-81	GaAs	~1,200	140 – 160 km	Built as an electronic warfare suite to jam air defenses and gather signals.
J-20 Mighty Dragon	Type 1475 (KLJ-7A)	GaN (Late Blocks)	~1,800+	150 – 200 km	Large nose aperture delivers a massive tracking field for long-range missiles.
Su-57 Felon	N036 Byelka	GaAs	~1,500	140 – 160 km	Uses side-facing cheek arrays to maintain tracking even during sharp turns.
KF-21 Boramae	Hanwha AESA	GaN	~1,000+	110 – 130 km	High-speed processing optimized for multi-role air-to-ground target sorting.

Produced with 100% national resources, from chip level to final system integration

Aselsan MURAD-100A AESA Radar with 1152 GaN T/R modules
Aselsan MURAD-600A AESA Radar with 2000+ GaN T/R modules


GaN based Airborne AESA Radars in the World

AN/APG-85 ... USA .. F-35
CAPTOR-E .... consortium ( The UK ,Germany , Italy , Spain ) ... Eurofighter
KLJ-7A ... China ... J-20
J/APG-2 ... Japan ... F-2
APY-016K ... S.Korea ... KF-21
MURAD-100/200A ... Turkiye ... F-16 , AKINCI , HURJET , KIZILELMA and ANKA-3
MURAD-600A ... Turkiye ... KAAN

USA , Turkiye , China , European consortium , Japan , S.Korea

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[MMM-E]

Summary Comparison

Metric	KAAN (5th Generation)	Rafale F4 (4.5 Generation)
Frontal Radar Cross-Section (RCS)	Extremely Low (0.003–0.01 m²)	Moderate ( 1 - 2 m²)
Radar Type	Large GaN AESA (MURAD 600-A)	Compact GaAs AESA (RBE2)
Head-to-Head Detection Distance	Sees the Rafale at 170–200+ km	Sees the KAAN at 35–50 km
Tactical Advantage	First-Look, First-Shoot, First-Kill	Relies on defensive Electronic Warfare (SPECTRA)

In a pure head-to-head engagement, KAAN maintains a massive 150 km zone of absolute advantage, allowing it to spot, track, and fire upon the RAFALE before the French Fighter even realizes it is being targeted on its radar screen

Frontal Radar Cross-Section (RCS)
KAAN : 0.01 m²
RAFALE : 1-2 m²

Head to Head engagement ( approximately )
KAAN : 175-208 km
RAFALE : 38 km

 

[MMM-E]

BVR Capability Matrix KAAN vs KF-21

Tactical Metric	KAAN (5th Generation)	KF-21 Boramae (4.5+ Generation)
Weapon Carriage	Internal Weapon Bays (Full Stealth)	External / Semi-Recessed (Semi-Stealth)
Frontal RCS Estimate	Extremely Low (0.003 – 0.01 m²)	Moderate-Low ( 0.1 – 0.5 m²)
Radar Technology	Heavy GaN AESA (MURAD-600A)	Medium GaN AESA (APY-016K)
Head-to-Head Track Distance	Spots the KF-21 at 120–150 km	Spots the KAAN at 35–50 km
Primary BVR Missile	Gökhan (Ramjet) / Gökdoğan	Meteor (Ramjet)
Engagement Initiative	Absolute "First-Shoot" Control	Forced to defend before acquiring a target

In a pure head-to-head engagement, KAAN maintains a massive 150 km zone of absolute advantage, allowing it to spot, track, and fire upon the KF-21 before the S.Korean Fighter even realizes it is being targeted on its radar screen

Frontal Radar Cross-Section (RCS)
KAAN : 0.01 m²
KF-21 : 0.1 - 0,5 m²

Head to Head engagement ( approximately )
KAAN : 120-150 km
KF-21 : 35-50 km


The KAAN holds a massive tactical advantage over the KF-21 because the Turkish Fighter is built from the ground up as a 5th-gen stealth Aircraft, whereas the KF-21 is a 4.5+ gen semi-stealth platform that carries its weapons externally

 

[MMM-E]

BVR Capability Matrix: KAAN vs SU-57

BVR Capability	KAAN (5th Generation)	Su-57 Felon (5th Generation)
Frontal RCS Estimate	Extremely Low (0.003 – 0.01 m²)	Moderate-Low ( 0.1 – 0.5 m²)
Stealth Optimization	High (Strict VLO geometry)	Balanced (Prioritizes aerodynamics)
Radar Array	Nose-mounted GaN AESA (MURAD-600A)	Multi-directional AESA (N036 Nose + Side arrays)
Frontal Detection Range	Tracks Su-57 at 110–140 km	Tracks KAAN at 40–60 km
Primary BVR Missile	Gökhan (Ramjet) / Gökdoğan	R-77M / R-37M
Tactical Advantage	First Shot Opportunity	Kinematic maneuvering / Multi-band sensing

In a pure head-to-head engagement, KAAN maintains a massive 140 km zone of absolute advantage, allowing it to spot, track, and fire upon the SU-57 before the Russian Fighter even realizes it is being targeted on its radar screen

Frontal Radar Cross-Section (RCS)
KAAN : 0.01 m²
SU-57 : 0.1 m²

Head to Head engagement ( approximately )
KAAN : 110-140 km
SU-57 : 40-60 km

Russian Su-57 does not have an all-aspect stealth design compared to its Western rivals and its RCS is significantly larger than the F-35 and KAAN

 

[BonPlan]

Stopgap.

SIPER Block 3/4 is likely not going to be ready until 2028+ and even then initial operational capability and full maturity takes some time.

SAMP/T will never be delivered in 2028 even if ordered now. So it's not the reason.

 

[BonPlan]

Frontal Radar Cross-Section (RCS)
KAAN : 0.01 m²
SU-57 : 0.1 m²

Full speculation.

Do Turkey only have an anechoic chamber big enough to test a jet ?

 

[BonPlan]

Frontal Radar Cross-Section (RCS)
KAAN : 0.01 m²
KF-21 : 0.1 - 0,5 m²

Full speculation. For the 2 jets.

 

[BonPlan]

Summary Comparison

Metric	KAAN (5th Generation)	Rafale F4 (4.5 Generation)
Frontal Radar Cross-Section (RCS)	Extremely Low (0.003–0.01 m²)	Moderate ( 1 - 2 m²)
Radar Type	Large GaN AESA (MURAD 600-A)	Compact GaAs AESA (RBE2)
Head-to-Head Detection Distance	Sees the Rafale at 170–200+ km	Sees the KAAN at 35–50 km
Tactical Advantage	First-Look, First-Shoot, First-Kill	Relies on defensive Electronic Warfare (SPECTRA)

In a pure head-to-head engagement, KAAN maintains a massive 150 km zone of absolute advantage, allowing it to spot, track, and fire upon the RAFALE before the French Fighter even realizes it is being targeted on its radar screen

Frontal Radar Cross-Section (RCS)
KAAN : 0.01 m²
RAFALE : 1-2 m²

Head to Head engagement ( approximately )
KAAN : 175-208 km
RAFALE : 38 km
View attachment 207880

You and me don't know the real RCS of each.
You forget that Rafale is fitted with a IR scan and track optronic system. Officially able to track a fighter at 100km, so the 38km....

 

[MMM-E]

Do Turkey only have an anechoic chamber big enough to test a jet ?

Turkiye is more than you know

TAI had established world-class testing infrastructure to keep the KAAN entirely within Turkish borders, including

-- Europe’s second-largest subsonic wind tunnel for aerodynamic testing
-- Full-scale anechoic test facility to analyze electromagnetic interference across sensor and radar systems onboard the Aircraft

https://www.aa.com.tr/en/turkiye/turkish-aerospace-industries-plans-to-boost-annual-aircraft-production-capacity-by-24-units/3930520

 

[MMM-E]

Full speculation.

Full reality

-- Russian Su-57 does not have an all-aspect stealth design compared to its Western rivals and its RCS is significantly larger than the F-35 and KAAN

-- The KAAN holds a massive tactical advantage over the KF-21 because the Turkish Fighter is built from the ground up as a 5th-gen stealth Aircraft, whereas the KF-21 is a 4.5+ gen semi-stealth platform that carries its weapons externally

 

[royalharris]

It's all based on fabricated data.
There's nothing meaningful to compare.

 

[MMM-E]

You forget that Rafale is fitted with a IR scan and track optronic system. Officially able to track a fighter at 100km, so the 38km....

100 km rating applies to large, non-stealth targets at high altitudes from behind, where massive engine heat is directly exposed

From the front aspect a Fighter Jet's hot exhaust plume is hidden by its own fuselage, reducing the infrared signature drastically.

RAFALE can detect the SU-27 from 100 km by IRST
but RAFALE can detect the stealth KAAN from 30-50 km by IRST

Factor	Non-Stealth Target ( SU-27)	Stealth Target ( TAI KAAN)
Frontal IR Signature	High (Unshielded inlets/engines)	Low (S-duct inlets, cooled skin)
Expected IRST Detection	Up to 80–100 km (High altitude)	Realistically 30–50 km
Sensor Tracking Method	Direct thermal point tracking	Algorithmic kinetic vectoring

 

[MMM-E]

Open sources gives same data on Google, and You'll always get the same values

We are not talking about the final RCS target ( 0.003 m2 ) for the KAAN
at worst , KAAN has 0.01 m2

SU-57 design sucks .. ( without all-aspect stealth design )
KF-21 doesnt have internal weapon bays for stealth flight capability
RAFALE is old 4,5 gen technology with much bigger RCS ( minimum 1 m2 with missiles )

KAAN has a highly stealthy design and technology from the front.

 

[royalharris]

Open sources gives same data on Google, and You'll always get the same values

We are not talking about the final RCS target ( 0.003 m2 ) for the KAAN
at worst , KAAN has 0.01 m2

SU-57 design sucks .. ( without all-aspect stealth design )
KF-21 doesnt have internal weapon bays for stealth flight capability
RAFALE is old 4,5 gen technology with much bigger RCS ( minimum 1 m2 with missiles )

Most of the data on the internet is shaped to fit particular narratives.

Some countries deliberately inflate their numbers, while others intentionally downplay or hide them.

The PL-15 missile is a good example. Before the India–Pakistan air conflict, most people believed its maximum range was around 150 km from internet data. But after the conflict, it became apparent to many observers that it could engage targets at ranges exceeding 200 km.