TF-X / KAAN / Hürjet Turkish Fighter & Trainer Aircrafts News & Discussions

[hyperman]

Why is no one taking about the Memorandum of Understanding signed with Spain for the export of Hurjet? lol

Thats big news! The first sale of a fighter jet/trainer to a NATO country by Turkey potentially.

 

[UKBengali]

When it was being developed, Ismael Demir mentioned that Turkey had reached out and got agreements for a possible alternative, should there be a potential embargo of the GE F110 engines. People speculated it was either the Al-41/Al-51 from Russia or a WS-10C/WS-15 from China. This reengining would obviously take some time if the need ever arose, but the rest of the plane development will be finished with the GE F110s that Turkey has already acquired for future prototypes.

In that case, why was the Chinese WS-10C not selected right from the word go?

Seems like Turkey went in with US engine due to lack of options or wanted to stick to western engine.

 

[UKBengali]

People always use the China example, the Turkish scenario is more akin to Japan than it is to China. China started from Scratch. Turkey and Japan started as part of the supply chain for western products as well as local production and tech transfer. Japan built IHI Corporation XF9 which is similar to the WS-15 project for China. Turkey is aiming to do the same.

Japan managed to develop a jet engine in the closing stages of WW2.

Their next turbojet engine was developed in 1962 and turbofan in 1985.

R&D of the 5th generation XF-9 started in the mid-1990s and delivery of prototype engine in 2018. This engine will never be fully developed as Japan is now a partner in UK/Italy GCP. Of course certain Japanese technologies will go into the joint fighter engine but the engine will be mainly a UK RR affair.

As well as over 75 years of experience making military jet engines, Japan has also partnered with the biggest engine manufacturers like RR,GE and P&W to create multiple commercial jet engines.

Turkey and Japan are no way comparable in engines.

 

[hyperman]

In that case, why was the Chinese WS-10C not selected right from the word go?

Seems like Turkey went in with US engine due to lack of options or wanted to stick to western engine.

B/c its an alternative, why would the GE F110 be abandoned? Turkey license produces it in Turkey, and has deep familiarity with the engine. There is no need to pivot to a different engine if the GE F110 is not embargoed.

Regardless of whether it gets embargoed or not, there are enough engines ordered, to complete testing with various prototypes.

No need to deal with a Chinese engine purchase and the complexities surrounding it both technical and political, if the bridge does not necessarily need to be crossed if ever.

 

[hyperman]

Japan managed to develop a jet engine in the closing stages of WW2.

Their next turbojet engine was developed in 1962 and turbofan in 1985.

R&D of the 5th generation XF-9 started in the mid-1990s and delivery of prototype engine in 2018. This engine will never be fully developed as Japan is now a partner in UK/Italy GCP. Of course certain Japanese technologies will go into the joint fighter engine but the engine will be mainly a UK RR affair.

As well as over 75 years of experience making military jet engines, Japan has also partnered with the biggest engine manufacturers like RR,GE and P&W to create multiple commercial jet engines.

Turkey and Japan are no way comparable in engines.

The relevance of the older turbojets engines isn't really there. Both Turkey and Japan got their modern Turbofan experience from the GE F110 transfer of tech for local production

It's actually very much like the Japanese, more so than the Chinese you used as an example. Its not an exact match, but its very much similar

Both TEI and IHI license produce the GE F110 engine for the F-16s in Japan and Turkey respectively. Both license produce the GE T700 respectively in their countries for Blackhawks and derivatives. Both build parts and modules for commercial turbofans built by GE and Pratt and Whitney.

Japan is a bit ahead of the Curve compared to Turkey as their projects started earlier, but they are very much inline.

Both Turkey an Japan have a program for a 5-6K turbofan with the TF6000 in Turkey and the XF5 with IHI. Both have plans to use the development of that to go onto bigger programs in the case of Japan with the XF9 and TF35000 with Turkey.

 

[UKBengali]

The relevance of the older turbojets engines isn't really there. Both Turkey and Japan got their modern Turbofan experience from the GE F110 transfer of tech for local production

It's actually very much like the Japanese, more so than the Chinese you used as an example. Its not an exact match, but its very much similar

Both TEI and IHI license produce the GE F110 engine for the F-16s in Japan and Turkey respectively. Both license produce the GE T700 respectively in their countries for Blackhawks and derivatives. Both build parts and modules for commercial turbofans built by GE and Pratt and Whitney.

Japan is a bit ahead of the Curve compared to Turkey as their projects started earlier, but they are very much inline.

Both Turkey an Japan have a program for a 5-6K turbofan with the TF6000 in Turkey and the XF5 with IHI. Both have plans to use the development of that to go onto bigger programs in the case of Japan with the XF9 and TF35000 with Turkey.

I disagree but wish Turkey best of luck with the engine to be developed and in production within 5-10 years as some people think.

 

[hyperman]

Potential sale of 100 KAAN Fighter jets to Saudi Arabia.


Saudi Arabia plans to buy 100 KAAN fighter jets According to the news in Milliyet newspaper, following Saudi Arabia's interest in the 5th generation national combat aircraft KAAN, which purchased the Akıncı TİHA from Turkey, negotiations have begun between the two countries for a comprehensive cooperation in the defense industry.President of Defense Industries Haluk Görgün hosted a delegation including Saudi Arabian Deputy Defense Minister Khaled bin Hussein Al-Biyari and Air Force Commander Turki bin Bandar Al Saud in Istanbul.The talks, which began to establish cooperation based on large-scale projects such as KAAN, will last 3 days. It is stated that Saudi Arabia plans to have 100 KAAN aircraft within the framework of its plans for the 2030s.

 

[Ali_Baba]

Potential sale of 100 KAAN Fighter jets to Saudi Arabia.


Saudi Arabia plans to buy 100 KAAN fighter jets According to the news in Milliyet newspaper, following Saudi Arabia's interest in the 5th generation national combat aircraft KAAN, which purchased the Akıncı TİHA from Turkey, negotiations have begun between the two countries for a comprehensive cooperation in the defense industry.President of Defense Industries Haluk Görgün hosted a delegation including Saudi Arabian Deputy Defense Minister Khaled bin Hussein Al-Biyari and Air Force Commander Turki bin Bandar Al Saud in Istanbul.The talks, which began to establish cooperation based on large-scale projects such as KAAN, will last 3 days. It is stated that Saudi Arabia plans to have 100 KAAN aircraft within the framework of its plans for the 2030s.

Better than wasting money in the USA - though i do wonder if this is real, or negiotations for the Tempest/GCAP to get better terms ( or even vice-versa to get better terms on KAAN by talking about Tempest/GCAP ). I think they should go for KAAN for sure, and it would be good to have both Pakistan/Saudi's and Egypt all use/have the Kaan interms of training and infrastructure development and support.

 

[Anatolian]

Better than wasting money in the USA - though i do wonder if this is real, or negiotations for the Tempest/GCAP to get better terms ( or even vice-versa to get better terms on KAAN by talking about Tempest/GCAP ). I think they should go for KAAN for sure, and it would be good to have both Pakistan/Saudi's and Egypt all use/have the Kaan interms of training and infrastructure development and support.

Doubt its a negotiation tactic. The simple reason being S.Arabia cannot get an actual stake within the project anymore. If Qatar, UAE and S.Arabia join the KAAN program it would get the funds to create a world class 5th gen fighter jets. Perhaps even lay the framework for projects beyond that.

 

[Oublious]

Better than wasting money in the USA - though i do wonder if this is real, or negiotations for the Tempest/GCAP to get better terms ( or even vice-versa to get better terms on KAAN by talking about Tempest/GCAP ). I think they should go for KAAN for sure, and it would be good to have both Pakistan/Saudi's and Egypt all use/have the Kaan interms of training and infrastructure development and support.

lol

Nobody gives high sensitive technology away, people on PDF should understand that. What the Kingdom demand ToT dreampipe, ther are certain thing you can not buy.

 

[hyperman]

lol

Nobody gives high sensitive technology away, people on PDF should understand that. What the Kingdom demand ToT dreampipe, ther are certain thing you can not buy.

They might get local production of some non critical parts and local assembly. Depending on the size of the order, something like 100 jets usually gets you local assembly in knockdown kits like what the Indians got from Russia for the Su-30MKI or what Japan and Turkey got for the F-16. its not going to be anything critical like the Radar or avionics.

 

[hodor]

They might get local production of some non critical parts and local assembly. Depending on the size of the order, something like 100 jets usually gets you local assembly in knockdown kits like what the Indians got from Russia for the Su-30MKI or what Japan and Turkey got for the F-16. its not going to be anything critical like the Radar or avionics.

You are absolutely right. 100 planes is too many. We can give Saudi Arabia the airframe construction and engine maintenance. Why would they buy 100 planes if we don't give them anything?

 

[Oublious]

They might get local production of some non critical parts and local assembly. Depending on the size of the order, something like 100 jets usually gets you local assembly in knockdown kits like what the Indians got from Russia for the Su-30MKI or what Japan and Turkey got for the F-16. its not going to be anything critical like the Radar or avionics.

They can get offset work off the project, the problem is people are thinking buying the faking IP rights ahaha. We will produce this and that, in fact they get licence to put a fighter to gether and making some parts.

If people remember, back in PDF some Arab members wher happy because of the bleuprint off a Ukraine missile, 10 years later nothing lol. It is what do you have inhouse to make?

Aselsan story before they started the company was what can we make and what is our knowledge. They demand offset work, so the first project was walkitalkies, now they turned in to a giant. Look to that missile story off ksa, nothing happened. Or the news was fake as a member is spreading fake news untill today .

 

[Eşbah]

You are absolutely right. 100 planes is too many. We can give Saudi Arabia the airframe construction and engine maintenance. Why would they buy 100 planes if we don't give them anything?

At this moment, I find the credibility of this news questionable. It appears to be a mix of speculation and wishful thinking. However, if the report were accurate and Saudi Arabia did purchase 100 KAANs, it would certainly establish them as a significant partner in the project. That said, it doesn't guarantee that they will gain extensive technology transfer and deep expertise from TAI.

Saudi Arabia could play a pivotal role in persuading other Arab countries to make purchases from us. I have no objections to transforming Riyadh into a hub for regional production, final assembly, and maintenance operations. Saudi Arabia is not our enemy and in many ways less harmful to our interests than the regime in Iran.

Having said that, Saudi Arabia may leverage us as a negotiating tool in their discussions with the countries involved in the Global Combat Air Programme. It's best to remain cool and reserved.

 

[hyperman]

At this moment, I find the credibility of this news questionable. It appears to be a mix of speculation and wishful thinking. However, if the report were accurate and Saudi Arabia did purchase 100 KAANs, it would certainly establish them as a significant partner in the project. That said, it doesn't guarantee that they will gain extensive technology transfer and deep expertise from TAI.

Saudi Arabia could play a pivotal role in persuading other Arab countries to make purchases from us. I have no objections to transforming Riyadh into a hub for regional production, final assembly, and maintenance operations. Saudi Arabia is not our enemy and in many ways less harmful to our interests than the regime in Iran.

Having said that, Saudi Arabia may leverage us as a negotiating tool in their discussions with the countries involved in the Global Combat Air Programme. It's best to remain cool and reserved.

Its not a done deal by any means, the way people are reporting, there is no decision made, they are showing more than just simple interest though, they sent a team to ankara from their air force to negotiate and get briefed.

Many questions still to be answered, such as what of the engine, will they want GE F110s on their aircraft, are they waiting for a Turkish engine? Are they going to give money to facilitate research and development for the engine?

What sort of transfer of tech would a 100 Jet order get. Similar deals such as this usually gets local production for some part and assembly from knockdown kits, as the Indians got with the Su-30MKI. I expect something similar for a 100 order if it ever gets made.