Time to help Iran: Here's Why

Status
Not open for further replies.
It is not an argument. It is merely unsupported conjectures without a shred of evidence.

Just a quick google search.

I would be grateful to read your reasoning for why Israel and its allies succeeding in their objectives is better for Pakistan’s national interests than them failing.
 
I am pretty sure the Pak Deep State is looking at the post war scenario. Every Musibet provides a thousand Nesihat and a hundred Imkanat. But, you need to be proactive with Iman and Ihlas to leverage the opportunities rendered by HIM out of HIS INFINITE MERCY. And, you need to study the Hakikat of the Murad-i Ilahi with Hikmet....

As for directly helping Iran right now with the stuffs that mater, it's highly debatable and can't be done in a vacuum for the West is breaking the last eggs in the ME basket that it has been weaving for the last 100 years. And, we know a geo-strategic major shift occurs in every 100 years....
 

Just a quick google search.

I would be grateful to read your reasoning for why Israel and its allies succeeding in their objectives is better for Pakistan’s national interests than them failing.

Right. An Indian rag trying to re-create useless and discredited ruckus. Anything else?
 
I would be grateful to read your reasoning for why Israel and its allies succeeding in their objectives is better for Pakistan’s national interests than them failing.

What are these "objectives" of Israel and its allies that you refer to above?
 
What are these "objectives" of Israel and its allies that you refer to above?
Just what is apparent so far from what Israel has claimed. Control of Iranian airspace, for example, which OP of this thread claims Pakistan should help prevent. Would Israel succeeding in this be beneficial, detrimental or have no impact on Pakistan’s national interests and why?

Right. An Indian rag trying to re-create useless and discredited ruckus. Anything else?

McNair's paper #41 published by USAF Air University (India Thwarts Israeli Destruction of Pakistans "Islamic Bomb") also confirmed this plan. It said, “Israeli interest in destroying Pakistan's Kahuta reactor to scuttle the "Islamic bomb" was blocked by Indias refusal to grant landing and refueling rights to Israeli warplanes in 1982.” Clearly India wanted to see Kahuta gone but did not want to face retaliation at the hands of the PAF. Israel, on its part wanted this to be a joint Indo-Israeli strike to avoid being solely held responsible.


Could you provide evidence that it was discredited?
 
Last edited:
Attention: The forum moderation has excluded my possibility of posting in the IRAN/ISRAEL topic after I posted that several Mossad commanders were killed as well as a general. What I posted has sources in the media here in Brazil and in other parts of the world.
 
Just what is apparent so far from what Israel has claimed. Control of Iranian airspace, for example, which OP of this thread claims Pakistan should help prevent. Would Israel succeeding in this be beneficial, detrimental or have no impact on Pakistan’s national interests and why?

For one, Israel already controls Iranian airspace. For two, Iran has been FAing with Israel through its proxies and now is FOing what is has sowed.

Whether that is detrimental or beneficial or neutral to Pakistan's interests entirely depends on what Pakistan chooses to do:

If Pakistan enters the fray in support of Iran, it will FO real quick too. If Pakistan chooses to help the war against Iran, it can likely derive some benefits for itself if it plays its cards right. Both options have significant downsides as well.

For Pakistan to remain neutral while making all the right polite noises and protests seems to offer the best chance of it coming out of the war next door in a neutral manner.

It is up to Pakistan to decide what it wishes to do here, of course.



McNair's paper #41 published by USAF Air University (India Thwarts Israeli Destruction of Pakistans "Islamic Bomb") also confirmed this plan. It said, “Israeli interest in destroying Pakistan's Kahuta reactor to scuttle the "Islamic bomb" was blocked by Indias refusal to grant landing and refueling rights to Israeli warplanes in 1982.” Clearly India wanted to see Kahuta gone but did not want to face retaliation at the hands of the PAF. Israel, on its part wanted this to be a joint Indo-Israeli strike to avoid being solely held responsible.

There are ten mentions of Kahuta in that report, and the relevant paragraph actually says this (exact words follow, not what has been quoted above) on Pages 14 and 15:

India Thwarts Israeli Destruction of Pakistan's "Islamic Bomb"

There is some evidence that Iraq was not the only nuclear peril to Israel that Begin saw in the early 1980s. Nor was the Osirak reactor in Iraq his only intended target. He also feared the Pakistani nuclear effort because Israeli intelligence had found evidence that Libya and other Moslem states were helping Pakistan, supplying both money and uranium to their effort'. Pakistan's leader, Bhutto, was therefore under some obligation to share the nuclear fruits of Pakistan's bomb effort with other Moslem states such as Libya.

According to an Indian official, Subramaniam Swamy, a former Janata Party member, Israel in 1982 asked him to sound out other Indian leaders to see if India would grant Israeli warplanes landing and refueling rights were they to undertake an Osirak-type raid against the Kahuta nuclear reactor in Pakistan. India refused, probably for a combination of reasons. As one expert on South Asia speculated:

"First, the Kahuta facility is well-protected and is thus a hard target to destroy. Second and more important, India expects that any first strike by India against Kahuta would be swiftly followed by a Pakistani attack against India's nuclear facilities. Such an exchange would leave India worse off, since any potential deterrent capability against China would thereby be eliminated. Finally, India would be wary of launching such an attack against Pakistan as it would cause not only great death and destruction to Pakistan, but could blow radioactive fail-out back over India. Such an attack against Pakistan would also alienate the Muslim Middle Eastern states whose amity India has assiduously cultivated."

In 1991, India and Pakistan signed a treaty pledging that neither would preemptively attack the nuclear facilities of the other.


Please read the above for yourself. Israel's' concerns about Pakistan arose only due to links with Libya's (and others Arab states) financial support and Bhutto's foolish dreams of greater glory.

Note specifically that the claim is made by a Janata Party politician he was approached by Israel to sound out the possibilities, which were swiftly discredited due to the reasons mentioned above.

That is hardly any confirmation.

Enough said.




As long as Israel is assured that Pakistan's nuclear weapons are for its own defense against India, there is no problem. Now, please tell me again how Pakistan will gain from helping Iran now against Israel? That would seem to be ill-advised IMO, and would put Pakistan squarely in the bullseye.

FAFO again, indeed.

============================================


Oh, BTW, the claims about what Swamy said are from the following sources:

Based on an interview granted Neil Joeck by former Janata Party member Subramaniam Swamy, January 1984. See Neil Joeck, "Pakistani Security and Nuclear Proliferation in South Asia," in Joeck, ed., Strategic Consequences of Nuclear Proliferation in South Asia (London: Frank Cass, 1986) p. 89. See also, "India Said to Eye Raid on Pakistani A-Plants," The Washington Post, December 20, 1982, p. 9; "The Islamic Bomb," in The Wall Street Journal, January 17, 1983, p. 26; and, finally, in "Four Minutes to Islamabad," Pakistan Times, April 1, 1985, p. 6.

(All media stories, nothing else.)
 
Last edited:
There is absolutely no images of destroyed Iranian planes on the ground. It is as intact as it was initially.

Buddy, I support Iran but their airforce is/was archaic due to sanctions.
You could shoot down their ancient planes with a slingshot.
 
In my opinion, the only two foreign countries that are really critical to China's national security are Mongolia and North Korea(possibly the whole Korean peninsula). China will not tolerate outside armies esp from hostile countries to be stationed in those two areas, that is a red line any time, China will not hesitate to send armies to fight. And yes, Far East region is very important to China in security, economy and cultures too.
The real threats are North Korea and Vietnam, and China would not hesitate to opt for war against hostile forces emerging from these two regions.

Mongolia can threaten the North China Plain, but it is too difficult to cross Siberia for supplies. Russia's Siberian Railway is thinner than chopsticks and can only carry 300,000 TEUs per year. The Russian Far East coast has a population of only 1.3 million.
 
In my opinion, the only two foreign countries that are really critical to China's national security are Mongolia and North Korea(possibly the whole Korean peninsula). China will not tolerate outside armies esp from hostile countries to be stationed in those two areas, that is a red line any time, China will not hesitate to send armies to fight. And yes, Far East region is very important to China in security, economy and cultures too.

The real threats are North Korea and Vietnam, and China would not hesitate to opt for war against hostile forces emerging from these two regions.

Mongolia can threaten the North China Plain, but it is too difficult to cross Siberia for supplies. Russia's Siberian Railway is thinner than chopsticks and can only carry 300,000 TEUs per year. The Russian Far East coast has a population of only 1.3 million.
 
PAF will have 10 mins station time in Iran and will need to fight of attacks from three axis. Even if one assumes the militaries function in bubbles outside politics and economics, it is not viable option.
View attachment 128834

Don't go. PAF needs to guard Pakistan. Did you think the Indians wouldn't take advantage of the situation?
 

Will Pak Army Help Iran? | Lt. Gen (R) Naeem Kahlid Lodhi Analysis | Eawaz Radio & TV​

To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.
 

Another Dangerous Attack | China In Action | Israel Trapped | Donald Trump | Live With Jami | EP 102​


To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.
 
The real threats are North Korea and Vietnam, and China would not hesitate to opt for war against hostile forces emerging from these two regions.

Mongolia can threaten the North China Plain, but it is too difficult to cross Siberia for supplies. Russia's Siberian Railway is thinner than chopsticks and can only carry 300,000 TEUs per year. The Russian Far East coast has a population of only 1.3 million.
Yes, at times, forces in these two countries had tried to challenge Chinese authority and China wouldn't hesitate to use force. Also China will not tolerate outside foreign hostile forces to be stationed there to threaten China, so is Mongolia.
 
Iran's Defeat Is NOT an Option for Russia & China - Gen. Ijaz Awan

To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Users who are viewing this thread

Pakistan Defence Latest

Back
Top