Trump ally Charlie Kirk shot at campus event in Utah

[Meengla]

It is going to get more and more toxic. There is enormous division and hate.

Reaction from one my uber Liberal WASP friend from a few minutes ago; my uber Trumpeter friend is having a medical procedure done so yet to receive from him but no doubt he will say some nasty things about 'the left'.

"The Kirk guy never heard of either untill yesterday. A lot of pundits think he was instrumental in getting the youth vote for Orange Sleazebag. He came off as just another Hate speech propagator to me with everything Iv'e read about him. Course no one deserves to be shot and am opposed to assasinations but won't shed a tear for him, feel sorry for his kids and wife thou."

 

[AZ_HighCountry]

Maps show that the distance was 128 meters, or 140 yards, not 200 yards.

It was a very easy shot that anyone with a decent gun and a few days of practice can do.

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That's been part of the problem. Some reports say 130 (140) yards and others are saying 200. The University is stating 200. Regardless, someone with my background, that is a warmup.

The fact the shooter chose to use a .30 caliber cartridge and not a 5.56 as the shooter in Butler did tells me a few things.

 

[Abdul q]

The Assassin probably flying back to epstein island.....

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Source of info???

 

[ThoroughPro]

Go back to sleep.

its better to sleep than being dumb. Stay up

 

[ThoroughPro]

But why would the old man direct attention toward himself?
Was that person insane?

It makes no sense anyone would intentional draw police toward himself, so police took him in and then realized he has no weapon and released him

distraction distraction distraction.

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

These two at back are making sure no one is looking at back towards shooter , and when all audience was facing toward speech giver they clearly seem to give some sort of signal

1- Baseball hat guy

• Touches the hat (All Clear no one is looking)
• Touches the ear (Clear for shot)
• He also initially tries to be a fan recording but before the shot intentionally moves the camera away

2- The other guy also making hand signals

• Signals another Clear signal

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It seems , after the first clear sign , Charlie Kirk bends down to pick up the phone unexpectedly

So the second guy gives Signal all clear do hurry it up

 

[j_hungary]

Have some thought on the shooter.

He does not seem to be a pro.

First of all, no pro would ever go that close to shoot someone, 200 yards open line of sight? If he is a pro, he would know this is the place to be if I am doing security. Either he is also thinking of overpowering anyone, which is going to be hard, especially before the kill shot. Or he didn't think of that.

Secondly, no one I know is a pro who would aim for the neck. Whether you are doing a trick shot or you mistakenly hit the neck, most snipers are taught to get either a headshot or a heartshot, depending on whether or not the target was wearing body armor. SF snipers were taught to aim at the shoulder or straight toward Subclavian Artery, because you need to move your hand, so there is no way you can cover your shoulder, and if you are using a high-power rifle, you can have a clean shot through the Subclavian Artery from the shoulder. Your target will bleed to death in seconds.

On the other hand, funny enough. 200 yards is usually the first ballistic drop notch at most hunting scopes, so if the shooter is aiming squarely on Kirk's head, it will hit his neck because of the ballistic drop

I will say he had a certain degree of planning, which included how to conceal the weapon before the shooting, probably location scouting (He didn't end up on that roof with clean LOS by accident), but I doubt he had planned his escape. Either that or he is a very, VERY well-trained operator, and he simply leaves a decoy clue for you to find.

 

[j_hungary]

A guy lying down on a roof with a rifle...where was this modus operandi recently seen.

That's like the MO of all assassination attempts in the last 20 years in and out of the US.

Most people will just lie on the roof and wait for the target to be stable because it requires the least amount of skill to pull out a hit. As I said at the beginning of this thread, a pro will always look at a target when the target is moving. Because your target moves, you move; your target is static, you are static. This means you are going to get caught easier if your target is stationary than if it is moving.

The last of one of those hits was in 1961 when they killed JFK. None of the other hits come even close to that level.

 

[j_hungary]

Yes I was responding to the other guy, mistakenly quoted you.

You are entitled to your opinion so is Path_finder, and so am I, you can never convince me that civilians should have rifles or automatic guns in their homes or posses big arsenal of Guns, I agree with handguns to protect yourself with proper training but that's about it. I never shot a real gun in my life so I don't know if you could make me a shoot good but I don't think that a time will ever come where I would need to own a Rifle or Automatic gun in house, if I ever own a house given how expensive houses are in Florida.

Since I moved to Australia, I have had a few run-ins with people on both sides about gun rights. People who are against gun rights always ask why the US is full of guns, and people who are pro-gun rights always tell me how authoritarian the Australian government is for taking guns away.

Bear in mind, gun ownership is still allowed in Australia, but you need a license, and there are several limitations on firearms ownership.

Both the Army and the Police Force taught me how to use firearms effectively. But the key difference, I will tell you, is this: I would want to get a firearm in the US because everyone has one, and in some cases, three, four, five, or ten. In Australia, I don't really have the need to get one. And I will tell you why.

Most people cite self-defence as a reason for guns, yes, if you are talking about the US, because you are going to go against people who have guns. If you don't have one, you aren't going to be able to protect shit, so you can call it a "Self-Inflicted" injury, because that's what the 2nd Amendment brought on. On the other hand, the stance between Australia and America on mass shootings cannot be further apart. In the US, people believe that if they are carrying, they would be able to stop any mass shooting. In Australia, that's the opposite; if NOBODY is armed, then you don't have mass shootings to begin with. If you are trying to digest both reasoning, you will see the American side is more "passive" because most Americans are resigned to the fact that gun issues and gun crime are going to be associated with them. In Australia, on the other hand, Australians believe in proper law enforcement and crime prevention before reaction. That aligns with the position of law enforcement and how people perceive their rights.

 

[Frogen]

Have some thought on the shooter.

He does not seem to be a pro.

First of all, no pro would ever go that close to shoot someone, 200 yards open line of sight? If he is a pro, he would know this is the place to be if I am doing security. Either he is also thinking of overpowering anyone, which is going to be hard, especially before the kill shot. Or he didn't think of that.

Secondly, no one I know is a pro who would aim for the neck. Whether you are doing a trick shot or you mistakenly hit the neck, most snipers are taught to get either a headshot or a heartshot, depending on whether or not the target was wearing body armor. SF snipers were taught to aim at the shoulder or straight toward Subclavian Artery, because you need to move your hand, so there is no way you can cover your shoulder, and if you are using a high-power rifle, you can have a clean shot through the Subclavian Artery from the shoulder. Your target will bleed to death in seconds.

On the other hand, funny enough. 200 yards is usually the first ballistic drop notch at most hunting scopes, so if the shooter is aiming squarely on Kirk's head, it will hit his neck because of the ballistic drop

I will say he had a certain degree of planning, which included how to conceal the weapon before the shooting, probably location scouting (He didn't end up on that roof with clean LOS by accident), but I doubt he had planned his escape. Either that or he is a very, VERY well-trained operator, and he simply leaves a decoy clue for you to find.

The distance wasn’t far—an experienced shooter or hunter in the U.S. would likely have the ability to hit the target.

Actually, I think it's quite possible that the shooter was a family member of one of the countless victims of gun violence in the U.S. Charlie Kirk's infamous comment that gun deaths are "a price worth paying" is widely known. If I had lost a loved one in a shooting, and had to constantly hear this guy justify their death as just part of the "price" for his right to bear arms, that kind of anger and hatred could absolutely become a strong motive for violence.

The worst-case scenario is that Americans escalate this directly into a political struggle. The developments from here will only get worse.

 

[AZ_HighCountry]

The worst-case scenario is that Americans escalate this directly into a political struggle. The developments from here will only get worse.

Escalate what into a political struggle?

In the US, there are over 100,000 pages of gun laws on the books. If the existing laws aren't being enforced, which they aren't, then what exactly is more gun control law going to accomplish?

Answer: Nothing.

 

[冖_冖]

Opinion | Charlie Kirk's death is a tragedy for all of America

The shooting is the latest in a disturbing string of violent attacks.

www.msnbc.com

Charlie Kirk's killing is part of chilling pattern that threatens America's future​

 

[F-22Raptor]

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Jumps off the roof

 

[Frogen]

Escalate what into a political struggle?

In the US, there are over 100,000 pages of gun laws on the books. If the existing laws aren't being enforced, which they aren't, then what exactly is more gun control law going to accomplish?

Answer: Nothing.

What I mean is that the U.S. is quick to label unidentified shooters as politically motivated assassins, but I believe many of these attacks might actually be lone wolf acts driven by hatred stirred up by Charlie Kirk’s rhetoric. If it’s just family members of shooting victims acting out of personal anger, that has a very different political consequence than attacks carried out by fervent supporters of a particular political party.

I’m not sure if it’s because of the deep influence of the Roman Empire, but the U.S., much like Rome, relies heavily on external resources to keep the country running, while its internal governance is quite lax. The U.S. fails to control many issues—drug abuse, gun proliferation, immigration problems—you name it. Honestly, if it weren’t for the dollar’s hegemony and military dominance, the U.S. would probably have already collapsed from within.

 

[AZ_HighCountry]

Am bookmarking your post to come back to it later. You've made some points that deserve some commentary. Some being in loose agreement.