Turkish Air Defence Programs

[hyperman]

this is copium, hisar a is very much a shorads solution.

Hisar A IS the supplemental element. Unless you have something to the contrary, Hisar A seems to be an all in one solution that can be operated standalone, hence the single chassis, radar, missile and eo/ir. Obviously a system designed to be mobile and provide troops/armored columns topcover...

Its not, you are just wrong, sorry.

SHORADS are handled by GURZ and KORKUT

HISAR is Medium Range like IRIS-T and CAMM, and BARAK 8. And it was deployed in a standalone element, which is a doctrinal issue, not a system issue.

 

[MMM-E]

They are operating a Medium Altitude Air Defense system in the open, without any layered coverage with Korkut or any other supplemental element.

Its a doctrinal issue.

GURZ ( Gun + Missiles + LASER + EW combination for layered defense )

4 AESA Radars ( 360° AESA )
Electro-optical sensors ( EO/IR )
Active electronic jamming (jammer)
1 x GOKBER LASER Weapon ( optional )
1 x 35 mm Gun with airbust ATOM ammunition
4 x SUNGUR MANPADS
4 x HISAR or GOKSUR Missiles

It is an all-in-one with better detection and interception capabilities

 

[Ak01]

Its not, you are just wrong, sorry.

SHORADS are handled by GURZ and KORKUT

HISAR is Medium Range like IRIS-T and CAMM, and BARAK 8. And it was deployed in a standalone element, which is a doctrinal issue, not a system issue.

This is pure cope.

roketsan literally makes the distinction between the Hisar a and hisar o, calling hisar o a med range system.

Hisar A is a shorads. It’s not the 1960’s were 15km is med range.

Stop coping, you know it’s not an insane concept to just concede that these kinds of UAS are a universal issue for everyone

 

[Ak01]

Not sure, but i don't think FPV drones/electrically propelled UAVs radiate anything good enough for IR interceptor like HISAR A to lock onto. This is a system that was envisioned and planned in mid 2000s for mobile protection. Clearly not adequate enough to meet assymetric threats of UAVs today.



Korkut also operate the same radar + EO sight.

Given the crews were sitting inside until it was struck, i am wondering if the radar also failed to detect the ISR element that came first and was hovering overhead to later cue the strike element. That would be a real failure.

How do we know it was an fpv drone? The kind of damage we saw is more consistent with a large warhead.

Also, there was no launch. These missiles will be lock on after launch because they’re canisterised, they weren’t even launched, let alone locking on with an IR seeker.

 

[Afif]

How do we know it was an fpv drone? The kind of damage we saw is more consistent with a large warhead.

Also, there was no launch. These missiles will be lock on after launch because they’re canisterised, they weren’t even launched, let alone locking on with an IR seeker.

Yes these are lock on after launch missiles guided by radar initially. But I am wondering hypothetically if these IR interceptor can lock onto something as electrically propelled UAVs after launch.

 

[hasssanali8998]

Yes these are lock on after launch missiles guided by radar initially. But I am wondering hypothetically if these IR interceptor can lock onto something as electrically propelled UAVs after launch.

dude if it cant detect a drone right over it , than thats a big problem and this didnt seem like a small drone
that explosion was big and there were 2 of them

 

[hyperman]

This is pure cope.

roketsan literally makes the distinction between the Hisar a and hisar o, calling hisar o a med range system.

Hisar A is a shorads. It’s not the 1960’s were 15km is med range.

Stop coping, you know it’s not an insane concept to just concede that these kinds of UAS are a universal issue for everyone

Its not cope, its reality.

The HISAR system is optimized for specific targets, its not a Standalone SHORAD.

Only a clown judges a system based on "It’s not the 1960’s were 15km is med range.", and therefore small drones which the system is not optimized for in standalone are supposed to be engaged.

Modern SHORAD have a gun integration for drones and other optimizations that allow of standalone operation.

The HISAR system is more akin to a Buk.

 

[Ak01]

Its not cope, its reality.

The HISAR system is optimized for specific targets, its not a Standalone SHORAD.

Only a clown judges a system based on "It’s not the 1960’s were 15km is med range.", and therefore small drones which the system is not optimized for in standalone are supposed to be engaged.

Modern SHORAD have a gun integration for drones and other optimizations that allow of standalone operation.

The HISAR system is more akin to a Buk.

yawn, tell me the difference between the sensors on the korkut and the hisar.

Roketsan literally refers to HISAR A as a shorad.

Hisar A is literally mounted on a tracked chassis, with integrated sensors and a firing solution on the same chassis. If this was the case that its not designed to be a standalone system, you would have seen a configuration similar to the Hisar O.

Infact, why are HISAR A missiles being replaced with HISAR O ones? Whats the idea behind having a lower powered radar, a lower powered EO system and a smaller command and control node all in one chassis if not for standalone ops... The mental gymnastics you're trying to play here are just silly.

Why does a gun become standalone but missiles cant?

Hisar A is nothing like Buk. Buk is literally not a standalone system, a single buk battery would require atleast 5 different components. A fire ready HISAR solution requires just one...

Just answer me this, if HISAR A is not to operate standalone, why did roketsan choose to integrate everything onto a single chassis, a solution which excels in nothing but mobility?



Its amazing, instead of lets just accept that every system struggles against these kinda threats and we need new solutions, lets bury our head in the sand and cope...

 

[kimjongun]

GURZ ( Gun + Missiles + LASER + EW combination for layered defense )

4 AESA Radars ( 360° AESA )
Electro-optical sensors ( EO/IR )
Active electronic jamming (jammer)
1 x GOKBER LASER Weapon ( optional )
1 x 35 mm Gun with airbust ATOM ammunition
4 x SUNGUR MANPADS
4 x HISAR or GOKSUR Missiles

It is an all-in-one with better detection and interception capabilities
View attachment 198348
View attachment 198353
View attachment 198352

ITS PROBABLY SUPER EXPENSIVE FOR THE THINGS IT PROVIDES .
Should have just kept the gun and missiles

 

[Ak01]

Yes these are lock on after launch missiles guided by radar initially. But I am wondering hypothetically if these IR interceptor can lock onto something as electrically propelled UAVs after launch.

they still have a signature.

Modern IIR sensors are extremely sensitive.

the AIM9X has a really capable seeker, able to distinguish shapes etc, but its not even the most capable among western AAM's.


But its a misconception that IR guided missiles rely on a heat source. This is not accurate, the key is a temperature difference. Theres numerous kills of electric UAV's by Stingers and old Soviet manpads in Ukraine. I dont see why the HISAR series could not do the same.

To expand on this even, the hisar series has both proximity and impact fusing, so whats stopping the radar from feeding a rough target location and it detonating via its prox fuse, killing. Theres multiple avenues here.

 

[Ak01]

GURZ ( Gun + Missiles + LASER + EW combination for layered defense )

4 AESA Radars ( 360° AESA )
Electro-optical sensors ( EO/IR )
Active electronic jamming (jammer)
1 x GOKBER LASER Weapon ( optional )
1 x 35 mm Gun with airbust ATOM ammunition
4 x SUNGUR MANPADS
4 x HISAR or GOKSUR Missiles

It is an all-in-one with better detection and interception capabilities
View attachment 198348
View attachment 198353
View attachment 198352

and when it takes a single FPV hit, you've lost 20 million dollars.

 

[MMM-E]

and when it takes a single FPV hit, you've lost 20 million dollars.

GURZ has been developed for FPV Drones too ( developed based on war experience in Ukraine )

4 AESA Radars and E/O - IR Cameras can detect FPV Drones
12,7 mm Gun + 35 mm Gun + SUNGUR MANPADS can intercept FPV Drones

also Active electronic jamming (jammer)

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Also , HISAR-A or GOKSUR Missiles to intercept UCAVs and Attack Helicopters up to 15 km

And GURZ has the ability to work autonomously with artificial intelligence.

NATO doesn't yet have another system with this capacity.
And the Russian PANTSIR AD System isn't that advanced.

 

[Ak01]

GURZ has been developed for FPV Drones too ( developed based on war experience in Ukraine )

4 AESA Radars and E/O - IR Cameras can detect FPV Drones
12,7 mm Gun + 35 mm Gun + SUNGUR MANPADS can intercept FPV Drones

also Active electronic jamming (jammer)

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Also , HISAR-A or GOKSUR Missiles to intercept UCAVs and Attack Helicopters up to 15 km

NATO doesn't yet have another system with this capacity.
And the Russian PANTSIR AD System isn't that advanced.

And what does this have to do with HISAR A failing?

 

[MMM-E]

And what does this have to do with HISAR A failing?

It was HISAR-A but not GURZ

GURZ has extra more fire power ( guns + Missiles ) and Jammer
also 4 AESA Radars + EO/IR Cameras for better detection capability

not HISAR-A , but GURZ is ideal for asymmetric warfare.


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Turkish UCAVs destroyed 40+ AD Systems including PANTSIR , BUK , TOR , S300 , FK-2000 FB-10

There is no air defense system that cannot be hit, including the most advanced THAAD radar systems of the US.

 

[xbat]

ok hisar A is bad, can i have 2 patriot and 3 s400 from there? ok thanks!