Where is Pakistan headed in the China-Türkiye relationship?

[r3alist]

The dispute between Chinese netizens and Turkish netizens comes from the fact that Chinese do not think Türkiye is Turkic, but Muslim Greek.

Chinese people believe that DNA is the basis for determining ethnic identity. A simple logic is that if Turkic conquered Anatolia, Türkiye would become Turkic, and Britain conquered India, Indians would become Anglo Saxons.

That's the low end of the mutual insults

 

[sutton9999]

US/Israel can easily turn on Twitter debates on any subject.

Turkey plays a role similar to pre-war Japan, pumped up by the Anglos.

Turkey is multi-faced, Turks cry out on Twitter whenever EU says stay away, you are not Europeans, not white.

 

[R2D2]

China should not be concerned something that might or might not happen after 100 years.

 

[Master Chief]

Put simply, yhe nation state of Pakistan stands with the nation state of China and with the nation state of Turkiye, being allies of both, for different reasons.

Regarding determination of historically accurate boundaries between empires based on ethnicity alone, these have fluctuated over time, and hence no one geographical boundary in time between such empires can be taken as a "true" and eternal one. Indeed, historical imperial boundaries have been based on political realities (not purely on ethnicity) since the earliest manifestations of civilisational conflict.

Pakistanis too have hypotheses on where our civilisational boundaries truly lie - and these hypotheses are not based on ethnicity alone. Ancient era geopolitical realities are also relevant. The contrarian approach will lead to simple ethnocentric gibberish as is espoused by modern zionists and hindutva fanatics (though BOTH these analogous entities have made inaccurate claims, even if we base their claims solely on ethnicity!).

 

[Ali_Baba]

As is well known, Chinese and Turkish netizens have recently been engaged in a fierce war of words on Twitter. Thanks to the efforts of the PDF management team, this war of words has not spilled over into this forum. I would like to express my gratitude to the management team!
Since these are merely grassroots actions by internet users, I do not believe they warrant in-depth discussion.

But !!!

A few hours ago, the official Chinese state media outlet China News Service published an article lashing out at Türkiye! Link.
Original Chinese text:
土耳其近期启用两套新教材，公然将多国领土划入其生造的所谓“突厥斯坦”和“统一突厥文明疆域”，覆盖面甚至包括中国新疆、甘肃、青海等省区。土耳其极端势力及“泛突厥主义”野心不小，但历史账却经不起细算。“泛伊斯兰主义”和“泛突厥主义”“双泛”思潮萌芽之际，奥斯曼土耳其便在左宗棠收复新疆的同时陷入主权债务危机。此后，奥斯曼帝国推行“双泛”路线并卷入一战，最终战败瓦解。狂热推行“泛突厥主义”的恩维尔帕夏逃窜中亚，最终被苏联红军击毙。如今，“埃尔多安经济学”已然破灭，土耳其“泛突厥”野心却持续膨胀。历史覆辙，是否重演？
View attachment 220886
Google Translate:
Turkey has recently introduced two new sets of textbooks that brazenly incorporate the territories of several nations into a fabricated concept of "Turkestan"—a purported "unified Turkic civilizational realm"—which even extends to include China’s Xinjiang, Gansu, and Qinghai provinces. While extremist factions in Turkey harbor grand ambitions rooted in "Pan-Turkism," their historical narrative crumbles under close scrutiny. The ideologies of "Pan-Islamism" and "Pan-Turkism" first emerged just as the Ottoman Empire—coinciding with Zuo Zongtang’s campaign to reclaim Xinjiang for China—was mired in a sovereign debt crisis. Subsequently, the Ottoman Empire pursued these "Pan-" agendas and became embroiled in World War I, ultimately leading to its defeat and collapse. Enver Pasha, a fervent proponent of "Pan-Turkism," fled to Central Asia, where he was eventually killed by the Soviet Red Army. Today, as "Erdoganomics" lies in ruins, Turkey’s "Pan-Turkic" ambitions continue to swell. Is history destined to repeat itself?
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I do not wish to comment on Turkey itself; there is no point in doing so. That would only lead to an endless exchange of insults on this forum.
The purpose of this thread is to examine the choices Pakistan faces within the context of this relationship.

Chinanews.com is a website operated by China News Service (CNS), an official news agency of the Chinese government. Although it may not possess the same level of renown or influence as Xinhua News Agency—the other major state-run news outlet—it remains an unequivocally official entity.

From one perspective, the upper echelons of the Chinese government currently wish to avoid escalating the situation, which is why they have utilized Chinanews.com to disseminate relevant information. However, should this form of "low-key protest" fail to elicit the desired response, official channels may escalate the matter further. This represents a pattern of conflict characterized by an upward, spiraling escalation.

The dilemma, however, lies with Pakistan—a nation that maintains very close ties to both China and Turkey—as it must navigate the delicate challenge of how to respond should the conflict escalate further.

To reiterate:
Our primary focus is on Pakistan’s reaction to this situation, rather than on the underlying issues between China and Turkey themselves.

Pakistan can, and will grow its relations with both countries and the Turks have bigger problems to deal with right now, ie Israel.

Some little fantasy book is not going to change reality, and I wouldn't read to much into it.

 

[313Ghazi]

You lot can argue till the cows come home, it has nothing to do with us. Our relationships are based on interests. Where they align - great, where they don't, it doesn't matter.

 

[sutton9999]

Israel can coexist well with Saudi, but not with Turkey.
Syria has been kept defenseless. Israel has an open lane to strike Turkey.
Can't think any surrounding country is on board with Turkey on this, not even Azerbaijan.
That's why Turks come to BRICS and SCO as a gesture.

Turkey's air force is practically zero facing Israel, the likes of E-7 can be switched off with one click using backdoors. Their new toys are very far from ready.

It is a right time to squeeze Turkey a little in the public sphere.

 

[ustaad]

What has a defence forum got to do with "social media fights"?

I can bet without googling that both of these countries have much larger trade volume with each other then either of them have with Pakistan. In case their relations get so bad towards diplomatic cutoff or conflict like situation then Pakistan should really concern and put all diplomatic weight to bring normalcy, until then it is better to keep this fight contained within social media.

@Musings I think OP has gotten his answer from fellow Pakistanis and this thread has run its course. Thank you.

 

[Panda_Hi]

You can lead a horse to water, but you can’t make it drink.

Live and let live.