Who Created Harappan / Indus Valley Civilisation? | How Did It End? | Samvaad With Devdutt Pattanaik

[PAKISTANFOREVER]

@Master Chief @PAKISTANFOREVER @hussain0216 @PK781 @r3alist

Good laugh for you guys. Indians are now claiming Gandhara as part of their history

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These gangus want to claim the achievements of the ancestors of the Pakistani people as they claim they are the same religion as them EVEN though they have no bloodline, genetic or racial link to the ancestors of modern-day Pakkstanis. ONLY in an indian mind would that make sense and be acceptable.............. ...................I blame the massive amounts of red chilies in the curry that indians eat. It kills the brain cells.

 

[Thinking]

These gangus want to claim the achievements of the ancestors of the Pakistani people as they claim they are the same religion as them EVEN though they have no bloodline, genetic or racial link to the ancestors of modern-day Pakkstanis. ONLY in an indian mind would that make sense and be acceptable.............. ...................I blame the massive amounts of red chilies in the curry that indians eat. It kills the brain cells.

Can you name the king who fought Alexander? He was your ancestor afterall.

 

[PAKISTANFOREVER]

Can you name the king who fought Alexander? He was your ancestor afterall.

He was based in Multan, modern day Pakistan. What connection does he have to modern day indians?

 

[Thinking]

He was based in Multan, modern day Pakistan. What connection does he have to modern day indians?

Not what I asked. What I asked was his name. Surely, what you claim is yours, you must know it well? What was his name?

Multan is derived from Sanskrit word Mulasthana. Another thing you wish to lay claim to? Urdu is from modern day India (Uttar Pradesh and Delhi). Perhaps you wish to swap urdu for Sanskrit?

 

[PAKISTANFOREVER]

Not what I asked. What I asked was his name. Surely, what you claim is yours, you must know it well? What was his name?

Multan is derived from Sanskrit word Mulasthana. Another thing you wish to lay claim to? Urdu is from modern day India (Uttar Pradesh and Delhi). Perhaps you wish to swap urdu for Sanskrit?

It doesn't matter what his name and religion is. His legacy is his race and bloodline descendants who happen to be modern day Pakistanis.

Do you have any genuine corroborative evidence that Multan is derived from the sanskrit word, "Mulasthana" and that Urdu originates from uttar pradesh and delhi? If what you say is true then remember to post the links here.

 

[Distant_Observer]

Not what I asked. What I asked was his name. Surely, what you claim is yours, you must know it well? What was his name?

Multan is derived from Sanskrit word Mulasthana. Another thing you wish to lay claim to? Urdu is from modern day India (Uttar Pradesh and Delhi). Perhaps you wish to swap urdu for Sanskrit?

We know you gangas very well, more than anyone else on this planet.

We know how you create fabrications. Youre historians, archaeologists and religious scholars are all questionable and deal in revisionism to fit your narratives.

This is why ancient Pakistan makes you insecure.

You should be proud of your ganga culture.

Indus has its own legacy and history. You should thank us for providing your people with culture and spirituality.

 

[Thinking]

It doesn't matter what his name and religion is. His legacy is his race and bloodline descendants who happen to be modern day Pakistanis.

Do you have any genuine corroborative evidence that Multan is derived from the sanskrit word, "Mulasthana" and that Urdu originates from uttar pradesh and delhi? If what you say is true then remember to post the links here.

A man without name has no legacy. I didn't ask for his religion. You can't even claim to share his DNA since he lived 2400 years ago. Too many "things" in the river since then.

I also have Wikipedia. Nothing "genuine". But you are free to google. But did you actually believe Urdu is native to Pakistan?

 

[Thinking]

We know you gangas very well, more than anyone else on this planet.

We know how you create fabrications. Youre historians, archaeologists and religious scholars are all questionable and deal in revisionism to fit your narratives.

This is why ancient Pakistan makes you insecure.

You should be proud of your ganga culture, its very ancient.

Indus has its own legacy and history. You should thank us for providing your people with culture and spirituality.

you know a lot, clearly. Just can't give any specifics.

Yes, we are proud of culture that didn't start suddenly start out of nowhere. Thanks for that.

Can't you share your history books? I want to see what is "history" according to illuminated you. Surely, all that you claim is written in your books?

 

[PAKISTANFOREVER]

A man without name has no legacy. I didn't ask for his religion. You can't even claim to share his DNA since he lived 2400 years ago. Too many "things" in the river since then.

I also have Wikipedia. Nothing "genuine". But you are free to google. But did you actually believe Urdu is native to Pakistan?

Anything substantial apart from wikipedia as it is unreliable?

Can you also prove that Urdu started in uttar pradesh and delhi as per your initial claims?

 

[PakistanLVR]

Can you name the king who fought Alexander? He was your ancestor afterall.

It’s shameful that Indians claiming others history. Partition and movement of people were from border area for vast majority of the people. Only indians who can claim some form of ownership with our ancestors were those that left the lands of Pakistan during partition.
Don’t think a mere few millions morphed into 1.5 bn Indians in 80 years. The rest of you are revisionists with no sheer connection to our lands and history.

To make things easier, I asked ChatGPT to provide a neutral source, and below was the response on King Porus.

Yes. If we rely on Greek primary sources and Western academic scholarship (rather than Pakistani or Indian nationalist narratives), the picture is actually fairly consistent.
1. Where was King Porus’ kingdom?
The overwhelming scholarly consensus is that Porus ruled the territory between the Jhelum (Hydaspes) and Chenab (Acesines) Rivers during Alexander’s invasion in 326 BCE.
If you place those rivers on a modern map:

• Jhelum River – almost entirely in Pakistan after entering Punjab.
• Chenab River – flows through Pakistan’s Punjab.

Therefore:
The core of Porus’ kingdom lay in what is today Punjab, Pakistan.
After the Battle of the Hydaspes, Alexander rewarded Porus with additional territory extending farther east, but his original homeland was centered between the Jhelum and Chenab.
Why is there disagreement today?
Because Pakistan and India did not exist in 326 BCE.
Some Indian writers describe him as an “ancient Indian king” because the Greeks used “India” (Indike) broadly for lands east of the Indus. Modern historians distinguish between the ancient geographic term “India” and the modern Republic of India.
Using today’s political borders:

• Core kingdom: Pakistan
• Later expanded territory: likely crossed into parts of modern Indian Punjab after Alexander’s victory.

2. What people did Porus belong to?
Oxford identifies him as ruler of the Pauravas, an ancient Indo-Aryan people.
Many historians believe the Pauravas were connected with the older Puru tribe known from Vedic literature, although this cannot be proven conclusively.

3. Who are his descendants?
This is where modern politics often enters the discussion.
The honest academic answer:
Nobody knows.
There is no documented genealogy from Porus to any living dynasty.
Claims that:

• Katochs
• Rajputs
• Jats
• Khatris
• Gujjars
• Awans
• or anyone else

are direct descendants of Porus are not accepted as historical fact by mainstream scholarship.
Western historians simply state that Porus was assassinated around 321–315 BCE, after which his kingdom disappeared into the expanding Mauryan Empire.
His family may well have survived, but there is no continuous historical record linking them to any present-day community.

4. What religion did Porus follow?
This is actually one of the most interesting questions.
The Greek sources never call Porus a “Hindu.”
Why?
Because Hinduism, as it exists today, did not yet exist in its modern form.
Instead, Porus almost certainly practiced what historians call:

• Historical Vedic religion
• or Late Vedic religion

This religion was based upon:

• sacrifices (yajña)
• fire rituals
• Vedic priests
• reverence for deities such as:
• • Indra
  • Agni
  • Varuna
  • Soma
  • Surya

rather than temple worship.

5. How was Porus’ religion different from modern Hinduism?
Quite significantly.

Porus’ religion (4th century BCE)​	Modern Hinduism​
Centered on Vedic sacrifice	Centered largely on temple worship
Fire rituals dominant	Puja and bhakti dominant
Indra was one of the chief gods	Vishnu, Shiva, Devi dominate
Animal sacrifice existed in some rituals	Rare in most Hindu traditions today
Few or no idols in mainstream worship	Idol (murti) worship widespread
No organized bhakti movements	Bhakti is central
Upanishadic philosophy developing	Vedanta, Yoga, Tantra, Bhakti all integrated

Modern scholars therefore distinguish between Historical Vedic religion and the much broader religious tradition that gradually developed into what is now called Hinduism.

6. Would Porus have called himself a “Hindu”?
Probably not.
The word “Hindu” originally came from the Old Persian pronunciation of Sindhu (the Indus River) and was first a geographical term, referring to people living beyond the Indus.
The development of “Hinduism” as an umbrella label for many indigenous South Asian religious traditions occurred much later, especially during the medieval and colonial periods.
Porus himself would have more likely identified with:

• his kingdom (Paurava)
• his tribe (Puru/Paurava)
• and his Vedic religious traditions,

rather than using the later label “Hindu.”
In summary

• Modern country: Porus’ core kingdom was located in present-day Punjab, Pakistan, between the Jhelum and Chenab Rivers.
• Ethnic affiliation: He ruled the Pauravas, likely connected to the ancient Puru tribe.
• Descendants: No modern group can be historically verified as his descendants; claims made by various communities are speculative rather than established history.
• Religion: He most likely practiced Late Vedic religion, which predates and differs in important ways from the diverse traditions now grouped under modern Hinduism.

 

[Master Chief]

A man without name has no legacy. I didn't ask for his religion. You can't even claim to share his DNA since he lived 2400 years ago. Too many "things" in the river since then.

I also have Wikipedia. Nothing "genuine". But you are free to google. But did you actually believe Urdu is native to Pakistan?

Not sure what narrative you are even attempting to propagate here.

You really should know better than to initiate a debate about Urdu.

Urdu, one of the world's great classical languages, if merely for the poetry and literature that have arisen from it, is a language that has been consistently marginalised and/or rejected by the Delhi government and various state institutions. Please carry on cursing anything and everything associated with your very real Mughal history. It doesn't bother us. Nothing you tree swingers could ever dream of uttering comes close to the mystical beauty of the Urdu language.

Just as your folk reject the Mughal Empire, Tipu Sultan, and so many other remarkable civilisational legacies granted by divine providence to the lands of coterminous Hindustan, your nation also rejects Urdu as some "invader's tongue". It is not surprise to us at all.

Why Urdu language draws ire of India’s right-wing

The right-wing appears to think the language as a foreign import but history shows quite the opposite.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[Master Chief]

you know a lot, clearly. Just can't give any specifics.

Yes, we are proud of culture that didn't start suddenly start out of nowhere. Thanks for that.

Can't you share your history books? I want to see what is "history" according to illuminated you. Surely, all that you claim is written in your books?

Do you wish to spuriously lay claim to anything specific that is Pakistani? Or are you here just to speak in riddles to amuse yourself?

Porus is Pakistani, practically by default, because of his historically recognised birthplace and his predominant region of military activity. Yes, the Battle of Hydaspes is further testament to this reality.

Urdu is an Indo-Aryan language originating from the lands of coterminous Hindustan, largely developed in the Mughal era and you are welcome to reject it.

I am trying to understand your game plan here, as your line of questioning is unrelated to the thread topic.

Is it that you expect or would like Pakistanis to reject non-islamic elements of their historical legacy, as you have rejected Islamic elements of yours?

Do you really think that is going to happen?

In truth, Hindustanis will sit in Hindustan and proudly cosplay as "ancient Indians" until kingdom come, while forgetting that to actually visit "ancient India", they will need to queue up for a Pakistani visa.