Pakistan-India Conflict 2025: News Updates and Discussion

[Distant_Observer]

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[hnn]

Kirana Hills is just hilly location near AB ...Indians made it Nuke storage facility ...that was their assumption....so escalation ladder remained at the lower level.

Chill karo dont worry ...like our mod @RescueRanger

Not factually correct. It was an important strategic location that they targeted. However, the strikes that had touchdown had the impact conveniently a safe distance away thanks to our EW soft kill.

 

[Baibers_1260]

I don't think capturing Karachi is on the cards unless India is ready for an all out mutually destructive war. They could try and create maritime choke points around the port and carry out a few strikes on airbases, however, anything more than that equals a war that will go out of anyone's control within a blink of an eye.

It's all a question of the "will to resist " and the quest for "nuclear martyrdom ". We have seen the case of Qatar with a majority ex-pat Hindu-Buddhist labor population. Even with the best weapons the "will to resist or defend " is not there, The people of Qatar are diverse and self-centered and will willingly accept one ruler for another.
- Should Karachi be blockaded or fall will the ruling
establishment based in Lahore and Islamabad risk a nuclear
martyrdom to free it? Highly unlikely. The government ,
lawmakers and bureaucrats would wish to survive
Even France in World War II declared Paris an "open city " in
the face of a German invasion, and set up a provisional
government in Vichy to negotiate, accept and collaborate
with the occupation which they did until the US and Britain
invaded France and toppled that regime .
- The effects of a nuclear war were not known until the end of
World War 2 . It took just two nukes to force even the
martyrdom loving Japanese to surrender their nation and see
the victors execute their generals .
Why would Pakistan be any different?
Sorry to be so cynical and depressing, but hopefully I and other amateur war game analysts are wrong

 

[PAKISTANFOREVER]

It's all a question of the "will to resist " and the quest for "nuclear martyrdom ". We have seen the case of Qatar with a majority ex-pat Hindu-Buddhist labor population. Even with the best weapons the "will to resist or defend " is not there, The people of Qatar are diverse and self-centered and will willingly accept one ruler for another.
- Should Karachi be blockaded or fall will the ruling
establishment based in Lahore and Islamabad risk a nuclear
martyrdom to free it? Highly unlikely. The government ,
lawmakers and bureaucrats would wish to survive
Even France in World War II declared Paris an "open city " in
the face of a German invasion, and set up a provisional
government in Vichy to negotiate, accept and collaborate
with the occupation which they did until the US and Britain
invaded France and toppled that regime .
- The effects of a nuclear war were not known until the end of
World War 2 . It took just two nukes to force even the
martyrdom loving Japanese to surrender their nation and see
the victors execute their generals .
Why would Pakistan be any different?
Sorry to be so cynical and depressing, but hopefully I and other amateur war game analysts are wrong

Pakistanis won't resist an indian invasion??????????????..........you OBVIOUSLY haven't been to Pakistan recently............

 

[Yasser76]

Wow .. you are right .. PAF Jets, C130 Plane, Saudi Private Jet, Chinese Private Jet, Pak Government Planes flying all across that region ....

C-295 Troop Transport Plane, Indian Jets, Indian Govt Planes on the Indian Side.

I have never seen this kind of activity, in this region.

Yeah, and remember, these are only the ones with transponders switched on

 

[Baibers_1260]

Pakistanis won't resist an indian invasion??????????????..........you OBVIOUSLY haven't been to Pakistan recently............

I didn't say all Pakistanis. Those in East Pakistan were "Pakistanis " too.
Karachi is a special case, Unfortunately Karachi is also Pakistan's chief economic hub.
The bedrock of Pakistan's defence is Punjab. This is where the majority of Pakistan's fighting manpower comes from. Historically the Muslim Punjabis have suffered under Maratha, and Sikh rule, so are unlikely to support a "Hindutva" occupation.
I gave you the example of Japan and also later Germany where even staunchly patriotic populations cave in and submit to avoid being annihilated.

 

[hnn]

It's all a question of the "will to resist " and the quest for "nuclear martyrdom ". We have seen the case of Qatar with a majority ex-pat Hindu-Buddhist labor population. Even with the best weapons the "will to resist or defend " is not there, The people of Qatar are diverse and self-centered and will willingly accept one ruler for another.
- Should Karachi be blockaded or fall will the ruling
establishment based in Lahore and Islamabad risk a nuclear
martyrdom to free it? Highly unlikely. The government ,
lawmakers and bureaucrats would wish to survive
Even France in World War II declared Paris an "open city " in
the face of a German invasion, and set up a provisional
government in Vichy to negotiate, accept and collaborate
with the occupation which they did until the US and Britain
invaded France and toppled that regime .
- The effects of a nuclear war were not known until the end of
World War 2 . It took just two nukes to force even the
martyrdom loving Japanese to surrender their nation and see
the victors execute their generals .
Why would Pakistan be any different?
Sorry to be so cynical and depressing, but hopefully I and other amateur war game analysts are wrong

I am not sure as to which Qatar situation you are referring to. However, with Paris situation in WW2, aren't you missing the point that it was already an ongoing all out war, and Paris was declared an open city to prevent it's total destruction at the hands of Germans, and the open city declaration didn't stop the war which continued for another 4 years?

 

[hnn]

I didn't say all Pakistanis. Those in East Pakistan were "Pakistanis " too.
Karachi is a special case, Unfortunately Karachi is also Pakistan's chief economic hub.
The bedrock of Pakistan's defence is Punjab. This is where the majority of Pakistan's fighting manpower comes from. Historically the Muslim Punjabis have suffered under Maratha, and Sikh rule, so are unlikely to support a "Hindutva" occupation.
I gave you the example of Japan and also later Germany where even staunchly patriotic populations cave in and submit to avoid being annihilated.

I think you are still missing the point that they only gave up after putting up a fight and losing it

 

[Baibers_1260]

The tactical maneuver towards Gwadar and strike on Khuzdar can still occur within the escalation ladder. If you remember, they did strike Kirana Hills in May, and that is where the tipping point for escalation ladder was and hence it didn't go past that because neither country was ready for an all out war.

Most western and enemy defense analysts ARE predicting an all out sustained war and while Pakistan will inevitably inflict heavy tactical defeats on the enemy, these will be unlikely to deter it from continuing further action till Pakistan is degraded

However, this is just a theoretical possibility. I agree with you that the most likely case is as you have described but any military related preparation/planning also takes into consideration the least likely case because that is where the most advantageous surprise lies.

It is not a theoretical possibility. India will not repeat the mistake of May 6-7 2025 executing a one off tactical air strike with no back-up plan for a follow up and sustained action.
There won't be be any surprises but a long grind of attrition

 

[PAKISTANFOREVER]

I didn't say all Pakistanis. Those in East Pakistan were "Pakistanis " too.
Karachi is a special case, Unfortunately Karachi is also Pakistan's chief economic hub.
The bedrock of Pakistan's defence is Punjab. This is where the majority of Pakistan's fighting manpower comes from. Historically the Muslim Punjabis have suffered under Maratha, and Sikh rule, so are unlikely to support a "Hindutva" occupation.
I gave you the example of Japan and also later Germany where even staunchly patriotic populations cave in and submit to avoid being annihilated.

You obviously haven't been to Pakistan recently and nor are you aware of the ground realities of Pakistani people and their mentality/attitude towards facing an indian ground invasion. IF what I am saying is wrong, let the indians come. See what their fate will be at the hands of the Pakistani public.

 

[TallGuy]

@TallGuy

So how do we account for the -1?

Regards

i do not know this - all i know is that 8 x Rafales are lost (Trump is not saying kills/he is talking about $150mil plus aircraft each) brand new - spanking new - beautiful

so do think he is talking about 7 x kills that includes 1 x MiG-29, 1 x Su-30MKI, 1 x Mirage 2000, 4 x Rafale?

or is he talking about RAFALEs only?

 

[PAKISTANFOREVER]

Most western and enemy defense analysts ARE predicting an all out sustained war and while Pakistan will inevitably inflict heavy tactical defeats on the enemy, these will be unlikely to deter it from continuing further action till Pakistan is degraded

It is not a theoretical possibility. India will not repeat the mistake of May 6-7 2025 executing a one off tactical air strike with no back-up plan for a follow up and sustained action.
There won't be be any surprises but a long grind of attrition

Despite ALL of this, the indians are still not coming to fight Pakistan........I wonder why?...........

 

[hnn]

Most western and enemy defense analysts ARE predicting an all out sustained war and while Pakistan will inevitably inflict heavy tactical defeats on the enemy, these will be unlikely to deter it from continuing further action till Pakistan is degraded

It is not a theoretical possibility. India will not repeat the mistake of May 6-7 2025 executing a one off tactical air strike with no back-up plan for a follow up and sustained action.
There won't be be any surprises but a long grind of attrition

"A long grind of attrition" makes it more than just a theoretical possibility instead of negating it I'm sorry but it is either I'm failing to understand you, or you are making logical errors - I just don't know which one it is

 

[Baibers_1260]

You obviously haven't been to Pakistan recently and nor are you aware of the ground realities of Pakistani people and their mentality/attitude towards facing an indian ground invasion. IF what I am saying is wrong, let the indians come. See what their fate will be at the hands of the Pakistani public.

Hopefully, I am wrong and seeing everything from the Karachi microcosm. I am going by facts .
-Pakistan discontinued the University Training Corps
-it is not clear if the Ansar/Mujahid Battalions even exist
What sort of resistance could come from the general public of Pakistan?

Once, again I am hoping ( and praying) for the best,

 

[Mighty_Dragon_Strike]

i do not know this - all i know is that 8 x Rafales are lost (Trump is not saying kills/he is talking about $150mil plus aircraft each) brand new - spanking new - beautiful

so do think he is talking about 7 x kills that includes 1 x MiG-29, 1 x Su-30MKI, 1 x Mirage 2000, 4 x Rafale?

or is he talking about RAFALEs only?

or in other words, he would'nt hesitate calling them Chinese, if they were actually Chinese jets!

further, new here could also mean, new in the region (new tech. in the region!)

J10 are'nt new jets in this region, as on paper, J 10 lags in terms of EW