Pakistan-Af: Operation Khyber Storm

[Meengla]

If Pakistan is to be the net security underwriter of the region it must reset the security architecture in the region conducive to its well being and delivering reasonable accommodation to all... an honest arbiter with the biggest stick in the region. It cannot be a laissez faire affair where one wishes the pieces to on the right spot.
The reason is simply because Pakistan never was an empire and never had aspirations beyond its confines... well then you leave yourself at the whims of those who do and have impetus.

Maybe a little offtopic... Pakistan has been on some kind of survival mode since its inception; the foundations were very shaky and many thought the new country couldn't survive. Very poor human resources barring the immigrants from India (the Muhajirs) and very few, little pockets in Sindh and Punjab in a feudal society, which is still very much feudal in many, many places; the social landscape changes north of Lahore. In contrast, the 'British India' became the 'India' with much larger, much better resources in every sense of the word.

So, Pakistan could never been an 'empire' when it was just trying to survive. Which brings me to the 'net security underwriter'. That role is very dangerous but possible if there is sustained, major support by the major powers like China and America. And with the recent Trump-Xi meeting, Pakistan gets some support. But it is still a very dangerous game to get to the Middle East quagmire--however, staying within Pakistan's own shell hasn't been working out either.

 

[gamaji]

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Every illegitimate ruling gang does that, i.e. trying to exploit nationalism to win public support when in trouble.

Who in Afghanistan will support these illegitimate Talibani terrorist gang who are ruling the country through the power of the bullet. Taliban refused to have a representative government in the country. Other ethnic groups must be waiting for an opportune time to kick out these terrorists from Kabul.

They have effectively imprisoned Afghan women/girls and deprived them of their right to education and work. I don't think they have support of even Pashtuns in Afghanistan.

 

[Oscar]

Come on bro? comparing SDF or YPG or PKK to Afghanistan is criminal act of it´s ownself.

Afghanistan is a notch or 2 or even 3 level more difficult place to fight in then UKRAINE or fight against. You can´t compare oranges and apples besides they have approx 1m active forces as we speak who are battle hardened. 300.000 armed forces, 500.000 police forces whom have just been transfered into the police department from the frontlines 4 years ago making them actully more of an army then police and then there is the odd 200k volunteers that could even reach much higher plus they have the perfect terrain and that perfect terrain even expans into the Pashtun lands of Pakistan like KpK these are treacherous lands.

One more thing to realize is that they have also become way more tactical genius in conventional warfare and formations due to being in war for so long just look how they took the country in 12 days it was textbook chess play you can only reach that level of understanding conventional warfare via experience and knowing nothing else but war your entire life.

Understatimating your foe is a massive mistake and imho both Turkey and Qatar are pro-pakistan here and won´t allow a close ally to blinded walk into such a conflict that will drag that long and some serious quagmire.

No exaggeration or anything in an all out war Pakistan could technically speaking perish against the IEA but it won´t be a benefit to the IEA or anything but loss for both at the end of the day as India could sweep thru after these two have gone to war for 20-30 years straight

Pakistan would Perish against the IEA?
Lol -
1M Battle hardnened?
WHO?
Are you assuming that every Afghan male has seen active conflict against the US or others and is now automatically capable of organized combat?
Please read the account of Brig Yousaf in the Bear Trap - and how these "Battle Hardened" Mujahideen were cut up like swiss cheese when they tried conventional tactics. Without Air Defenses even their guerilla tactics can be take out by scorched earth.

The simple problem is controlling the idea of Pashtun Nationalism coupled with religious nutjobbery and for that Pakistan doesnt have enough power.

Because at the end no Idea gets you to be right, only Power gets you to be right.
With enough power you can commit genocide as Israel is in Gaza and eventually in decades they can paint it as the right thing.

 

[gamaji]

Times x and you're talking zion... that has infiltrated every dissident, wannabe or critical group... with the whole collective doing its bidding... they effectively ran both Soviet and western block... communists and capitalists. They got away with literal murder broadcasted live for past two years straight.

India couldn't muster a SINGLE ally for their misadventure.

Well... as they say
To each their own!

Confines are for the blind who assume the other will toe the line. As it stands... it should be obvious NO ONE DOES! So start charting and stop following.

Makes no sense. Pak is a party, not a neutral venue here.

 

[gamaji]

Unfortunately, the military knows this, the civilian facade knows this. But because you have to honor the hosts in turkey and Qatar to maintain goodwill with them you have to agree. This is the price of maintaining good relations with those countries.

There is a subtle difference between bravery and foolishness. An action at one time is bravery and at another a folly. In the prevailing situation a lack of action on western side would be hikmat/wisdom and opposite will be a folly.

 

[Oldenwisdom...قول بزرگ]

Maybe a little offtopic... Pakistan has been on some kind of survival mode since its inception; the foundations were very shaky and many thought the new country couldn't survive. Very poor human resources barring the immigrants from India (the Muhajirs) and very few, little pockets in Sindh and Punjab in a feudal society, which is still very much feudal in many, many places; the social landscape changes north of Lahore. In contrast, the 'British India' became the 'India' with much larger, much better resources in every sense of the word.

So, Pakistan could never been an 'empire' when it was just trying to survive. Which brings me to the 'net security underwriter'. That role is very dangerous but possible if there is sustained, major support by the major powers like China and America. And with the recent Trump-Xi meeting, Pakistan gets some support. But it is still a very dangerous game to get to the Middle East quagmire--however, staying within Pakistan's own shell hasn't been working out either.

True... and?

Where does one start from? Where do you want to start?
Remember, staying static is also a choice.
Things that happened and choices that were made often were instigated or ushered in, had their genesis outside Pakistan .. some resonated and led to greater things others either didn't or deemed too onerous for those at the helm.
Not everyone is a good getter but a well dug by one serves the whole village!

 

[F.O.X]

Come on bro? comparing SDF or YPG or PKK to Afghanistan is criminal act of it´s ownself.

Afghanistan is a notch or 2 or even 3 level more difficult place to fight in then UKRAINE or fight against. You can´t compare oranges and apples besides they have approx 1m active forces as we speak who are battle hardened. 300.000 armed forces, 500.000 police forces whom have just been transfered into the police department from the frontlines 4 years ago making them actully more of an army then police and then there is the odd 200k volunteers that could even reach much higher plus they have the perfect terrain and that perfect terrain even expans into the Pashtun lands of Pakistan like KpK these are treacherous lands.

One more thing to realize is that they have also become way more tactical genius in conventional warfare and formations due to being in war for so long just look how they took the country in 12 days it was textbook chess play you can only reach that level of understanding conventional warfare via experience and knowing nothing else but war your entire life.

Understatimating your foe is a massive mistake and imho both Turkey and Qatar are pro-pakistan here and won´t allow a close ally to blinded walk into such a conflict that will drag that long and some serious quagmire.

No exaggeration or anything in an all out war Pakistan could technically speaking perish against the IEA but it won´t be a benefit to the IEA or anything but loss for both at the end of the day as India could sweep thru after these two have gone to war for 20-30 years straight

Ease down on whatever you are smoking.

 

[battalion25]

Pakistan would Perish against the IEA?
Lol -
1M Battle hardnened?
WHO?
Are you assuming that every Afghan male has seen active conflict against the US or others and is now automatically capable of organized combat?
Please read the account of Brig Yousaf in the Bear Trap - and how these "Battle Hardened" Mujahideen were cut up like swiss cheese when they tried conventional tactics. Without Air Defenses even their guerilla tactics can be take out by scorched earth.

The simple problem is controlling the idea of Pashtun Nationalism coupled with religious nutjobbery and for that Pakistan doesnt have enough power.

Because at the end no Idea gets you to be right, only Power gets you to be right.
With enough power you can commit genocide as Israel is in Gaza and eventually in decades they can paint it as the right thing.

My wording may have come off slightly wrong but what I meant is it could risk that both perish by severely weakening each other because it would give India an easy access to bharat and to sweep thru that is what I meant in reality but in return if both are together they beat bharat everyday and can retake it again.

Hence this is more like double edged-sword and it would be more like a civil war then a war actully. Af-pak is more or less same civilization

 

[Night Memory]

Afghanistan is a notch or 2 or even 3 level more difficult place to fight in then UKRAINE or fight against. You can´t compare oranges and apples besides they have approx 1m active forces as we speak who are battle hardened. 300.000 armed forces, 500.000 police forces whom have just been transfered into the police department from the frontlines 4 years ago making them actully more of an army then police and then there is the odd 200k volunteers that could even reach much higher plus they have the perfect terrain and that perfect terrain even expans into the Pashtun lands of Pakistan like KpK these are treacherous lands.

One more thing to realize is that they have also become way more tactical genius in conventional warfare and formations due to being in war for so long just look how they took the country in 12 days it was textbook chess play you can only reach that level of understanding conventional warfare via experience and knowing nothing else but war your entire life.

Understatimating your foe is a massive mistake and imho both Turkey and Qatar are pro-pakistan here and won´t allow a close ally to blinded walk into such a conflict that will drag that long and some serious quagmire.

No exaggeration or anything in an all out war Pakistan could technically speaking perish against the IEA but it won´t be a benefit to the IEA or anything but loss for both at the end of the day as India could sweep thru after these two have gone to war for 20-30 years straight

You say all of that but you forget that Afghandustan has an almost non-existent economy. America turns the tap off the monthly stipend of 46 million. Pakistan, Iran and Tajikstan shut down all transit routes. These guys will literally starve. Forget war. They will worry about rice and flour.

We shouldnt under-estimate yes, but this useless fear mongering and calling these losers who always had the support of our brain dead establishment of those days which is why they survived.

Biden was a total failure, his hasty exit enabled them to take over Afghanistan and all that was sheer embarrassment. I dont think Trump would have let that happen. He literally threw a MOAB to bring them to sign the Doha agreement. But alas the so called champions of Islam have zero honor, and they honor no agreement made with them. A clear sign of khawarjis and munafiqs.

 

[Fatman17]

Pakistan and Afghanistan agreed early on Friday morning to continue a ceasefire between the two countries following a rapid deterioration of ties and a brief conflict along their shared border earlier this month.

A second round of discussions between Pakistani and Afghan Taliban delegations had began in Istanbul on Saturday, but Islamabad’s long-standing concern over terror attacks emanating from Kabul remained a major point of contention, resulting in a stalemate. A breakthrough came after Türkiye and Qatar salvaged the dialogue process for the second time in less than a week, following Pakistan’s announcement on Wednesday that the talks had “failed” and that its negotiators were preparing to return home.

Read more: https://www.dawn.com/news/1952189/

#DawnToday

 

[Night Memory]

If Afg-Pak becomes reality China withdraws support to Pakistan because China doesn´t arm Pakistan to gatekeep the Kabul regime but India hence they will become irrelevant to Chinese main interest if they are in eternal conflict weakened state besides China has more economical interests in Afghanistan hence this would be basically a double L for China´s stragetic security wall they were building around India.

According to Chinese social Media this was an order from the Pentagon and the Pakistani leaders are following order which is the correct assement of things right now and the main target is Afg-Chinese rare earth mineral deals. Pakistan is basically being used to damage chinese interests but China see thru the bullshxt

Correction on my above post, i remember from the defence.pk days. I used to lurk that forum too, and this battalion guy is a very conniving taliban supporter. If i had to take a guess, this guy is probably based out of UK and could be a jihadi type.

This post i have quoted is from another thread, if you see his posting history, he has “haha” react on every post that supported pakistan army in their recent operation.

Cautioning everyone about this guy.

I am all for giving everyone a chance to their opinion hence i wont request the mods to ban a khawarji sympathizer.

 

[battalion25]

You say all of that but you forget that Afghandustan has an almost non-existent economy. America turns the tap off the monthly stipend of 46 million. Pakistan, Iran and Tajikstan shut down all transit routes. These guys will literally starve. Forget war. They will worry about rice and flour.

We shouldnt under-estimate yes, but this useless fear mongering and calling these losers who always had the support of our brain dead establishment of those days which is why they survived.

Biden was a total failure, his hasty exit enabled them to take over Afghanistan and all that was sheer embarrassment. I dont think Trump would have let that happen. He literally threw a MOAB to bring them to sign the Doha agreement. But alas the so called champions of Islam have zero honor, and they honor no agreement made with them. A clear sign of khawarjis and munafiqs.

The last part kinda of threw me completely off. Who are you? Why should the Americans stay in our backyard and what kind of retardation is that. What you think the Americans wanna help Pakistan. They just gave India waiver sanction for chabbar port so that they can take the Afghan merchants as their new clients is the timing not suspicious for you.

Stop this delulu. We are viewed as pariah state by the Americans and Biden on record said Pakistan is the most dangerous country in the world and let us not act or be who we are not.

Iran will cash in on the Karachi crisis another man´s loss is another man´s gain and that is how business is normally as I am one myself. Chabbar port will cash in millions and billions from this. Besides nobody is gonna close the borders on Afghan exports or imports they will just move ports they have borders with 5 other countries outside of Pakistan.

They will more or less reach self-suffience in food production in like 2 years from now and they aren´t starving and have actully made alot of advances since the IEA takeover.

There are 40 million Pashtuns in Pakistan which is twice as many as these in Afghanistan. Whom are Pakistani nationals besides both Pashtuns, Tajiks and Punjabis all arrived together into proper India with Mohammed of Ghor they were fighting on the same side and have done so for over 1000 years.

Example who do you think called upon Abdali? It was the people of Punjab today and he came to their aid because they didn´t see each other as aliens or what not but same civilization a brotherly muslim people who needed help and he responded to their stress call.

Af-Pak is one civilization and it will be more of a civil war rather then an actual war they are intertwinned.

 

[Night Memory]

The last part kinda of threw me completely off. Who are you? Why should the Americans stay in our backyard and what kind of retardation is that. What you think the Americans wanna help Pakistan. They just gave India chabbar port so that they can take the Afghan merchants as their clients as the timing not suspicious for you.

Stop this delulu. We are viewed as pariah state by the Americans and Biden on record said Pakistan is the most dangerous country in the world and let us not act or be who we are not.

Iran will cash in the Karachi crisis another man´s loss is another man´s gain and that is how business is normally as I am one myself. Chabbar port will cash in millions and billions from this. Besides nobody is gonna close the borders on Afghan exports or imports they will just move ports they have borders with as they have borders with 5 other countries outside of Pakistan.

They will more or less reach self-suffience in food production in like 2 years from now and they aren´t starving and have actully made alot of advances since the IEA takeover.

There are 40 million Pashtuns in Pakistan which is twice as many as these in Afghanistan. Whom are Pakistani nationals besides both Pashtuns, Tajiks and Punjabis all arrived together into proper India with Mohammed of Ghor they were fighting on the same side and have done so for over 1000 years.

Example who do you think called upon Abdali? It was the people of Punjab today and he came to their aid because they didn´t see each other as aliens or what not but same civilization a brotherly muslim people who needed help and he responded to their stress call.

Af-Pak is one civilization and it will be more of a civil war rather then an actully war they are intertwinned.

I dont care about your opinion, khawarji sympathizer. I spit on the supporters of dogs of hell. May those be cursed who support these murderers and enemies of humanity.

You are one heck of a conniving snake, the way you frame your arguments just shows that. America didnt gave Chahbar to India. They already had it for years. America rather sanctioned them and gave them a temporary waiver.

Also, Americans need to help Pakistan and will help Pakistan for the same reason they give 46 million stipend to the dogs of hell. Because Afghandustan is the nexus of global terrorism and eventually, like people like Sarah Adams, keep talking about they will try to attack America.

Biden is gone, and so will your taliluns, who we will teach a lesson of a lifetime.

And dont give me that bullshit about Abdali, my forefathers are Babar and Humayun and Akbar who thrashed afghandus and beat them to a pulp. A young 20 something Babar took these so called chest beaters to the cleaners. These Afghandus were ruled by my people for hundreds of years.

Pakistanis are the legacy of the Mughal empire, we dont give two craps about Abdali.

I know who you are.

 

[battalion25]

Correction on my above post, i remember from the defence.pk days. I used to lurk that forum too, and this battalion guy is a very conniving taliban supporter. If i had to take a guess, this guy is probably based out of UK and could be a jihadi type.

This post i have quoted is from another thread, if you see his posting history, he has “haha” react on every post that supported pakistan army in their recent operation.

Cautioning everyone about this guy.

I am all for giving everyone a chance to their opinion hence i wont request the mods to ban a khawarji sympathizer.

Get outta here with that shxt. You are the one talking with a tongue that is foreign pakistani national interest. Why should we give advantage to our foes.

I have seen the most you deleted it sounded like some European or foinkas post he would be the only one capable of posting that shxt.

Taliban tried to save and safe their culture and heritege against hedonistic invaders who came from far lands. What you want them to give their lands to them

 

[battalion25]

I dont care about your opinion, khawarji sympathizer. I spit on the supporters of dogs of hell. May those be cursed who support these murderers and enemies of humanity.

You are one heck of a conniving snake, the way you frame your arguments just shows that. America didnt gave Chahbar to India. They already had it for years. America rather sanctioned them and gave them a temporary waiver.

Also, Americans need to help Pakistan and will help Pakistan for the same reason they give 46 million stipend to the dogs of hell. Because Afghandustan is the nexus of global terrorism and eventually, like people like Sarah Adams, keep talking about they will try to attack America.

Biden is gone, and so will your taliluns, who we will teach a lesson of a lifetime.

And dont give me that bullshit about Abdali, my forefathers are Babar and Humayun and Akbar who thrashed afghandus and beat them to a pulp. A young 20 something Babar took these so called chest beaters to the cleaners. These Afghandus were ruled by my people for hundreds of years.

Pakistanis are the legacy of the Mughal empire, we dont give two craps about Abdali.

I know who you are.

Just look at your profile creation date.. October 7th lmao! You only signed on to this website to become a multi nickier. You can delude the low IQ elements but not me.

You are either some Indian or that greek fella.

Af-Pak civilization should defend their own civilization and not throw their achievements for the pleasure of other elements or the enemies of their forefathers and these who wanna see their civilization wipped out.

For Bharat doesn´t wanna see their civilization standing this strong today and would wish them away if it could