Pakistan-India Conflict 2025: News Updates and Discussion

[airhead]

I already said "contextually isolated" to indigenous development of military equipment and tech. You are expanding the topic out of that context into a broader socio-economic domain which is a separate discussion that belongs to politico-economic sections of the forum.

But is pertinent to mention here that PAC and GIDS are state owned entities who have now begun to break into export market. You can't expect such entities to be an overnight success especially when there were no such private entities present and thriving already.

As for the top down process - again it's not as simplistic as you have summarized it. Private education reforms were again introduced in Gen Musharraf era - it's a separate nuance why those private institutions have failed over the years and where Musharraf's and then later Governmental policies could have been better (again a longer discussion for a separate forum)

My response is specifically against the simplistic view that "Musharraf Model" solely relied on US dependency, for which I have also mentioned factual realities and not just "IK knew better" argument.

It has been 26 years since Musharraf came to power so plenty of time for these so called corporations to become large enterprises. In the same time Tata BIRLA, Piramal and so many IT powerhouses were created not to mention 1000sbod startups coming out of India in biotech ..we are nowhere nowhere . Musharraf policy failed..yes at least he wasn’t corrupt like sharif and zardari so need to give him credit for that. Pakistanis are highly talented..we have our own bill gates and Elon musk in our ranks but unfortunately they are not given a chance ..not the right education and resources . Army doesn’t understand it nor does sharif not zardari. The only person I have heard talking about this is IK ..not sure if he has the right strategy to harness our awaam but at least he is talking about it. The others ..absolute failures incl Musharraf …the numbers speak for themselves. Name a single global enterprise created during Musharraf? Zilch

 

[NA71]

/ — MONITORING: Earlier this morning, a United States Air Force C-17 Globemaster III flying from the UAE landed at Jodhpur Air Force Station, delivering Apache AH-64E attack helicopters.

Based on recent patterns observed just days before the May conflict, there is a possibility that the aircraft transported Israeli UAVs and kamikaze drones, rather than the AH-64Es. Several USAF cargo flights have previously delivered such unmanned systems to India.

ThePakistanNews

 

[PK781]

I've seen him at the local Esso.. "Attention pump numbar 7! You must pay faarst for petrol saar after 9pm!"

lol in Canada its so bad now that everyone has to pre-pay for gas nowadays.
Even in the daytime!

 

[PK781]

/ — MONITORING: Earlier this morning, a United States Air Force C-17 Globemaster III flying from the UAE landed at Jodhpur Air Force Station, delivering Apache AH-64E attack helicopters.

Based on recent patterns observed just days before the May conflict, there is a possibility that the aircraft transported Israeli UAVs and kamikaze drones, rather than the AH-64Es. Several USAF cargo flights have previously delivered such unmanned systems to India.

ThePakistanNews

the americans/israeli's are re-arming and supplying weapons to india again.......not a surprise.

I always knew the americans cannot be trusted, they'd never support a muslim country and will always side with hindutva and zions.....

If anyone still has doubts on that, they're simply brainless.
The faster the empire crumbles, the better is it for the world. The current order getting destroyed by usa/zions/hindutvas

 

[Abid123]

Are we on the brink of war?

 

[Thucydides]

I have a question for the more knowledgeable members of this forum. How are our current relations with China?

I understand that strategic relationships don't change suddenly and there is no indication of any policy shift in China, but is there any change in their demeanor towards our security situation?

 

[NA71]

View attachment 157523


no, Im not afraid of him...


because he looks like one of those, who cram and rote learn



only to realize, paper eventually came out of syllabus!

(bec. he never understood the syllabus in the first place, duh!)

Paistani boys while fearing Indian Navy......

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[Mutakalim]

Are we on the brink of war?

No. No need to worry. The situation is tense but the war is not imminent yet. However, the situation is moving in that direction day by day with no signs of things easing down.

 

[hnn]

It has been 26 years since Musharraf came to power so plenty of time for these so called corporations to become large enterprises. In the same time Tata BIRLA, Piramal and so many IT powerhouses were created not to mention 1000sbod startups coming out of India in biotech ..we are nowhere nowhere . Musharraf policy failed..yes at least he wasn’t corrupt like sharif and zardari so need to give him credit for that. Pakistanis are highly talented..we have our own bill gates and Elon musk in our ranks but unfortunately they are not given a chance ..not the right education and resources . Army doesn’t understand it nor does sharif not zardari. The only person I have heard talking about this is IK ..not sure if he has the right strategy to harness our awaam but at least he is talking about it. The others ..absolute failures incl Musharraf …the numbers speak for themselves. Name a single global enterprise created during Musharraf? Zilch

Again, th fallacy you're committing is comparing state owned dedicated defense enterprises with privately owned business conglomerate. Tata Birla is not "just" a defense contractor, it did not even begin as a defense contractor. Except for China, most of the defense innovation enterprises around the globe are privately owned. State owned enterprises usually don't become highly successful because they are usually not envisioned purely from a cut throat capitalist and market capture model. Even China's state owned enterprises only begun being successful once the liberalized (not to be confused with Liberalism political ideology) the markets.

Secondly, why mention IT enterprises when we are talking about Defense innovation? Comparing apples and oranges is a strawman fallacy.

The "Bill Gates" and "Elon Musks" - again - civilians and not statesmen. You can argue that Musharraf's policies failed simply because we don't see any economic progress in the country - and I can agree to that in part because even that argument has its nuances and not as simplistic - however, that same argument applies to IK and other governments as well. So, they all failed collectively

BTW you still haven't mentioned any factual reality, policy, or framework to support the argument that IK understood what others failed to but it's ok now - you don't have to because this discussion doesn't fit this thread - if you want you can tag me in a relevant thread and present those facts that can help me understand why IK was better than any other prior to him.

 

[Oscar]

Paistani boys while fearing Indian Navy......

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Kind of irrelevant -
Keeping sports up is an adjacent matter to actual performance and morale.
Yes, there is concern over if a full fledged IN/IAF assault happens with mass standoff barrages etc.

But, things are also much better in terms of both being able to bear but also deterrence of such events because of the long hand procurement in the past. The IN will have to put itself in grave danger before it can put any of its standoff systems to use.

 

[Oscar]

Looks like the local corner shop/7-Eleven guy.




Pakistan be fearing me, come on fight is on

View attachment 157534

I don’t think we should stoop to the bhaktoras level to make fun of this man looks. A meek short shastri made Ayub Khan look like an idiot at Tashkent and a woman took down womanizing generals of PA in 71.

Focus on competence and being less about hot air and more about performance - that is what is differentiating Pakistan for now.

 

[Waz]

I don’t think we should stoop to the bhaktoras level to make fun of this man looks. A meek short shastri made Ayub Khan look like an idiot at Tashkent and a woman took down womanizing generals of PA in 71.

Focus on competence and being less about hot air and more about performance - that is what is differentiating Pakistan for now.

Aye but he's talking about 'fear', one aspect of that would be appearance. But yes the mind is what makes a formidable foe. But then, him and his comrades were showing pictures of 'war winning hits' and claiming a great win.

 

[Mighty_Dragon_Strike]

Honestly, I realise it's not about optics all the time, but he really does not look the part does he? I am sure he must be a bright guy, but looks like they promoted some slightly over keen guy in accounts...

ohhh I observed how bright he his, the way he laughed and moved his head in a stupid Ind. way, the last press conferenced I watched of his May 11th!

cheering on, grinning and smiling ear to ear about non consequential matters

 

[Oscar]

Aye but he's talking about 'fear', one aspect of that would be appearance. But yes the mind is what makes a formidable foe. But then, him and his comrades were showing pictures of 'war winning hits' and claiming a great win.

That is the laughable aspect of them. They did a decent follow up in May - but that is like saying they managed to use their supposed much better and more weapons to a best 5% capacity while the other 95% were hidden away.

They could argue that they were stopped before they “unleashed” but you just need to look at the number of weapons they were launching to see how much of their “trailer” was even working. Incompetence will crash even the most advanced systems.

Question is - what have they learned, implemented and practiced for AT SCALE which is making them bellicose again?
And what has Pakistan learned and done the same besides claiming for Indians “They never learn”?

 

[hnn]

No. No need to worry. The situation is tense but the war is not imminent yet. However, the situation is moving in that direction day by day with no signs of things easing down.

Yes. No imminent threat on the East - yet. Border escalation has been present since April and hasn't gone down. The recent military exercises and posturing from both countries is in line with that escalation. India is going over the top with their exercises but it doesn't directly equate with them launching an offense - I mean they can in all plausibility - but no anomalous indication yet of an imminent offense. However, we are on the "brink" of war, and has been since April - "brink" being one lame move from either side and it's war.