PA MLRS, Self Propelled and towed artillery [BM-11, Fatah-I GMLRS, Fatah-II] - News, Updates & Discussions

Baibers_1260 said:
With the Saudi Arabian defense pact how likely os it that Pakistani MRLS operators will be trained to operate M270 HIMARS/GMRLS ( if they are not trained already ?
These may become available to Pakistan in case of a war with India. With a 300 km range these should be able to hit most troop concentrations and air bases in North-Western India.

Saudi Arabia also has the TOS mortar from Russia using Thermobaric weapons
Click to expand...
The munition placement isn't too optimal from a loading perspective. The Israelis fixed this in the latest version. The mortar ought to be fired off the top of a reinforced chassis and suspension.
 
RAMPAGE said:
The munition placement isn't too optimal from a loading perspective. The Israelis fixed this in the latest version. The mortar ought to be fired off the top of a reinforced chassis and suspension.
Click to expand...
The Ukrainians had some spectacular success in the early use of the M142-HIMARS version. HIMARS ammunition pods are interchangeable with the M270 MLRS . Don't know if the Saudis have these. Politically there could be a problem securing US permission to use these against India .. Pakistan's recent Fatah 1V might be the answer
 
falcon34 said:
These are not volume fires and Ukraine has NATO sensors.
Russians had shitty tactics for CM fires, I've seen a few too where a CM was going in alone. I am in way saying it will single handedly take down Indian AD.
It will need the support of Sarkash and Blaze loitering munitions.
Fire 20 Sarkash and Blaze munitions and seek in 3-5 Baburs and I can say with 100% certainty that these 3-5 high subsonic terrain hugging missiles flying at 10-20 metres altitude will hit their intended targets.
10 blaze munitions and Sarkash munitions flying between altitudes 10-100 metres and and 10 of these flying at Shorad altitude between 1-5 km altitude will keep indian gepards and Shorads busy.
That's what the Russians have been Doing.
Russian just corrected their strategy for CM fires and they have been deadly ever since
Click to expand...
Even so,
Our Theater will be much tougher and with denser AD with more obvious targets than let's say what Russians are hitting now or what the Ukrainians are hunting....
Our lack of strategic depth doesn't enable us the luxury to use slow moving assets for rapid neutralization tactics...
You need fast attacking vehicles paired with slower loitering munitions not slow on slow...
While the defense system starts to engage the slower vehicles, the fast one penetrates through taking advantage of delayed launch but quicker delivery....
Slow on Slow means that vehicles would be needed to launch in a shorter span and with a smaller window... Which increases predictability and thus increases failure of mission.
Even in recent scenario
Fatah made enough room for the JF-17s to perform successful SEAD with Hypersonic CM-400 AKG.
So
Subs make Supersonic & Hypersonic hits possible
Supersonics make Hypersonic hits possible
& Lastly successful Hypersonic operations lead to successful Subsonic operations
According to my understanding FATAH-4 is a late game weapon... It's the hammer that seals the coffin not the bullet that puts the f@#ker in it in the first place.

With regards to your and other queries and opinions of single missiles and lucky engagements of Russian subsonic CMs....
Imagine the Russian theater,
Imagine the absolute hell of angle of attacks that Ukraine has to prepare against due to Russian Sea dominance and Belarusian puppet control...
Even so these lucky shots took place.
Now imagine our linear border, imagine our lousy angle of attacks or lack there of for both sides... This simply increase the luck factor 3 folds easily... Sub sonics are not the way, all hopes on Fatah-3 (???) & 5
 
Baibers_1260 said:
The Ukrainians had some spectacular success in the early use of the M142-HIMARS version. HIMARS ammunition pods are interchangeable with the M270 MLRS . Don't know if the Saudis have these. Politically there could be a problem securing US permission to use these against India .. Pakistan's recent Fatah 1V might be the answer
Click to expand...
Oops. I accidentally replied to you when I should've replied to the post you were replying to. I was referring to the new mortar system.
 
RAMPAGE said:
The munition placement isn't too optimal from a loading perspective. The Israelis fixed this in the latest version. The mortar ought to be fired off the top of a reinforced chassis and suspension.
Click to expand...
The Israeli Mortars that are mounted on top of vehicles have so far only been for export, the IDF actually used Humvee based mortar of same style as HIT one during Gaza conflict.
20251002_140510.jpg
 
iron shrapnel said:
Even so,
Our Theater will be much tougher and with denser AD with more obvious targets than let's say what Russians are hitting now or what the Ukrainians are hunting....
Our lack of strategic depth doesn't enable us the luxury to use slow moving assets for rapid neutralization tactics...
You need fast attacking vehicles paired with slower loitering munitions not slow on slow...
While the defense system starts to engage the slower vehicles, the fast one penetrates through taking advantage of delayed launch but quicker delivery....
Slow on Slow means that vehicles would be needed to launch in a shorter span and with a smaller window... Which increases predictability and thus increases failure of mission.
Even in recent scenario
Fatah made enough room for the JF-17s to perform successful SEAD with Hypersonic CM-400 AKG.
So
Subs make Supersonic & Hypersonic hits possible
Supersonics make Hypersonic hits possible
& Lastly successful Hypersonic operations lead to successful Subsonic operations
According to my understanding FATAH-4 is a late game weapon... It's the hammer that seals the coffin not the bullet that puts the f@#ker in it in the first place.

With regards to your and other queries and opinions of single missiles and lucky engagements of Russian subsonic CMs....
Imagine the Russian theater,
Imagine the absolute hell of angle of attacks that Ukraine has to prepare against due to Russian Sea dominance and Belarusian puppet control...
Even so these lucky shots took place.
Now imagine our linear border, imagine our lousy angle of attacks or lack there of for both sides... This simply increase the luck factor 3 folds easily... Sub sonics are not the way, all hopes on Fatah-3 (???) & 5
Click to expand...
Though I agree with most of it but there is no way our theatre will have denser AD than the Russian mainland.
There are corridors available that can be exploited there is no way 2000km border would have AD coverage, Our drones exactly exploited those corridors in may, Big one is Kashmir and the rest depends upon our Intel on which sectors Don't have much coverage.
 
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IMO Pakistan should have a similar system in place alongside the Fatah 2...this is a 600 mm MLRS and when mixed in with fatah 1s and 2 will provide a variety in the warheads....
But one of the problems is fuel efficency...NK solid propellents perform better then ours according to me but i am no expert....
 
@Panzerkiel is there any work on going in domain of ramjet powered 155mm artillery shells in Pakistan, the Indian program has reached the trial phase.
 
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