NGAD IS THE BEST
Elite Member
And these projects are completed? or will complete in future?
AMCA vs KAAN vs KF-21 India Turkey & Korea’s Fighter Jets Battle For Air Supremacy—Who Leads The Pack? OP-ED
- Thread starter dani191
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MMM-E
Elite Member
I am showing evidance - source from TEI and CEO of TEI
You asked me about a source for TEI's 1.500 parts production for 50 different engine programs ... and I showed you offical source from TEI
You have no question just trolling and You called TEI as Turkish propaganda
I am just showing real Turkish military projects with official source
None of them fake or exaggeration
NGAD IS THE BEST
Elite Member
And when these projects will completed? its takes time to complete and specially engine projects will have delays due to complexity of these projects, I'm not saying TF-35000 will definitely delayed but most probably it will, so don't consider TEI statements as hard as stone
MMM-E
Elite Member
I won't try to convince you anymore
only one example , Turkiye has developed TEI TS-1400 turboshaft Engine in record time between 2017 and 2023 ... and mass production will start in 2027
This is also a difficult technology ... ( Thanks to 236 of GE T700-TEI-701D turboshaft engines which were produced under license by TEI )
Turkiye gained great experience from GE F-110 turbofan Engine under license production and 1.500 parts production for 50 different engine programs for many years
Let's wait and see , TEI will do it or not
pointless discussion is unnecessary
WARSIDT
Registered Member
I’ve been following this forum for quite a while, just as a reader. Didn’t even bother creating an account. But after seeing Denio and some Chinese users here, I noticed they really struggle to stay realist.
Even in a few discussions I had with some Chinese users, the talks always ended up drifting away from realism and neutrality. Somehow, every time the topic turns to Türkiye, they switch from “realistic criticism” to a condescending tone like they suddenly have to talk down to people.
For example, I once made a comment about China actually complimenting China’s success and potential but some Chinese users still took it as an attack and immediately got defensive. I wasn’t even being negative.
To clarify what MMM-E said: Türkiye can be put in the same category as the U.S., Russia, and China in terms of the will to produce and develop, not in terms of production power. Türkiye wants to build everything itself from a single screw to a full engine. And it’s trying, developing, producing. But when it comes to large-scale production and industrial maturity, there’s still a way to go.
Except for Russia, the other countries I mentioned don’t really have market or financial limitations. Türkiye, on the other hand, struggles with both. For example, China can build a weapon and even if it doesn’t export it, selling it just to its own army would still make billions. That’s not the case for Türkiye. That’s exactly why our most refined products are in the drone market we produced, sold, got feedback, improved, refined, and as sales went up, prices dropped, and products became more competitive.
But when some users say things like “Türkiye can’t do it” or “You failed in the past, what makes you think you’ll succeed now?” and then hide behind “I’m just being realistic” that’s not realism.
What you’re actually doing is calling it realism while making hasty generalizations, building on that pseudo-realism, and then convincing yourself with dogmatic assertions that you’re right. That’s why your conclusions don’t hold up.
Try applying your own logic to your own country for a second you’ll realize how flawed your reasoning sounds. And I’m not only saying this to Chinese users, but to Turks, Pakistanis, and everyone else too. Staying neutral in discussions isn’t easy, but lately, people have crossed that line turning every debate into some kind of national superiority contest. It’s getting boring.
And lastly, if you call TEI a “propaganda source,” then be consistent don’t trust random news sites, X (Twitter), Instagram, Telegram groups, or any other shady pages either. Because if you don’t even trust the official company that builds the engine, trusting social media sources sure isn’t what I’d call realism.
Even in a few discussions I had with some Chinese users, the talks always ended up drifting away from realism and neutrality. Somehow, every time the topic turns to Türkiye, they switch from “realistic criticism” to a condescending tone like they suddenly have to talk down to people.
For example, I once made a comment about China actually complimenting China’s success and potential but some Chinese users still took it as an attack and immediately got defensive. I wasn’t even being negative.
To clarify what MMM-E said: Türkiye can be put in the same category as the U.S., Russia, and China in terms of the will to produce and develop, not in terms of production power. Türkiye wants to build everything itself from a single screw to a full engine. And it’s trying, developing, producing. But when it comes to large-scale production and industrial maturity, there’s still a way to go.
Except for Russia, the other countries I mentioned don’t really have market or financial limitations. Türkiye, on the other hand, struggles with both. For example, China can build a weapon and even if it doesn’t export it, selling it just to its own army would still make billions. That’s not the case for Türkiye. That’s exactly why our most refined products are in the drone market we produced, sold, got feedback, improved, refined, and as sales went up, prices dropped, and products became more competitive.
But when some users say things like “Türkiye can’t do it” or “You failed in the past, what makes you think you’ll succeed now?” and then hide behind “I’m just being realistic” that’s not realism.
What you’re actually doing is calling it realism while making hasty generalizations, building on that pseudo-realism, and then convincing yourself with dogmatic assertions that you’re right. That’s why your conclusions don’t hold up.
Try applying your own logic to your own country for a second you’ll realize how flawed your reasoning sounds. And I’m not only saying this to Chinese users, but to Turks, Pakistanis, and everyone else too. Staying neutral in discussions isn’t easy, but lately, people have crossed that line turning every debate into some kind of national superiority contest. It’s getting boring.
And lastly, if you call TEI a “propaganda source,” then be consistent don’t trust random news sites, X (Twitter), Instagram, Telegram groups, or any other shady pages either. Because if you don’t even trust the official company that builds the engine, trusting social media sources sure isn’t what I’d call realism.
AZ_HighCountry
INT'L MOD
"Under license" production is not the same as designing and building yourself. Absolutely you gain tremendous experience with the manufacturing process and the tolerances required.
Now, design from the ground up and do it repeatedly.
MMM-E
Elite Member
Türkiye has moved from under license production to a Country that designs and produces its own Systems.
from F-16 under license production to KAAN Fighter Jet
from S-70 under license production to T-625 Helicopter
from GE T700 turboshaft engine under license production to TS-1400 turboshaft Engine
and from GE F-110 turbofan engine under license production to TF-35.000 engine
-----------------------------
The design for all 3 engines has been completed and production has begun
TF-6.000
TF-10.000
And the TF-35000 utilize high temperature resistant super alloys, advanced coating and cooling technologies with its unique design
Turkiye has developed everything Single crystal blade casting technology , blisks and spools manufacturing technologies , coating technologies , combustion chamber and high temperature applications, super alloys , additive manufacturing , ceramics and porous structures , Materials and progress technologies
It has taken us 40 years to reach this level.
official source
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Indos
INT'L MOD
Under license doesnt mean the engine is produced in Turkey, more like assembling and some component produced in Turkiye
If we talk about underlicense, F414 for KF21 is also "said produced by Hanwa Korea underlicense.
It is more marketing saying it is underlicense, only stupid want to give the turbofan technology entirely
MMM-E
Elite Member
Forget about under license production
Turkiye is now much more advanced with its own technologies
Single crystal blade casting technology
Blisks and spools manufacturing technologies
Coating technologies
Combustion chamber and high temperature applications
Super alloys
Additive manufacturing
Ceramics and porous structures
Materials and progress technologies
No need anything from USA ... Turkiye itself designed the TF-35.000 Engine and produces it with full of indigenous capability
S.Korea doesnt have all these technologies
and KF-21 is almost full of American-Israeli-European technology
Indos
INT'L MOD
Saying KF21 is full of US technologies is just stupid rumors spread by those who speculate in twitter
How many Turkish companies produce components for KAAN ?
Huge Korean companies involve in KF21, while only Indonesian Aerospace from Indonesia involve in KF21 program. It is something that become Indonesia resentment, but it is already settle up with reduce cost share of Indonesia
60 % KF21 components come from Korean companies, including AESA radar from Hanwa. Elta only involve in testing.
MMM-E
Elite Member
S.Korean KF-21 technology
-- Engine from American GE
-- AESA Radar technology from Israeli ELTA Systems
-- Terrain-following/terrain avoidance (TF/TA) Systems from Israeli ELTA Systems
-- IRST sensor head unit from Italian LEONARDO
-- CANOPY technology from American TEXSTARS
-- AMADs from American TRIUMP GROUP
-- HELMET from USA
-- Main Generator from American COLLINS AEROSPACE
-- Missile ejection launchers from British COBHAM
-- Ejection Seat from British MARTIN-BAKER
-- Wheel braking system from American MEGGITT
-- Air to Air Missiles from USA and Europe
-- Cruise Missiles from USA and Europe
even simulation link system from Turkish SDT Space and Defense Technologies
More than 30 Turkish companies took part in the production of KAAN and supported its production...... only Engine is from USA and ejection seat from The UK
Indos
INT'L MOD
LOL that is so few compared to Korean companies involve. You want me to show credible source about Korean companies involvement in KF21 program ?
Look, even F35 uses many non US components, so 60 % local content rate for KF21 is already good enough in this globalized world
Indos
INT'L MOD
MMM-E
Elite Member
Since Turkiye is a country that is constantly subject to embargoes, we are working to ensure that KAAN is completely domestic
90% local content rate for KAAN will increase to almost 100% with TF-35.000 turbofan engine and TAI ejection seat
-------------------------
While South Korea continues to receive F-414 engine supplies from the US without any problems, the US Senate blocked the supply of F-110 engines to Turkiye which is a NATO member
Otherwise, KAAN would have gone into production in 2027 with F-110 Engine
MH.Yang
Trusted Member
The F414 is only a temporary engine used by the KF-21. There is a 22000lbf engine project in South Korea aimed at providing engines for the KF-21b3.
South Korea expects this engine to be put into use around 2035, and then will develop high thrust engines for future 6G fighter jet projects based on this engine.
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