Pakistan Constitutional Amendments:

[Fatman17]

When officers and soldiers in uniform engage in activities outside their military profession, do you expect conversation to be restricted to just the operational aspects when discussing the role of the Chief of Defense Forces?

It's up to the military to provide substance for us to discuss. The majority of the country is still trying to determine whether this is a political party, a business conglomerate, or a standing professional military.

Please let us know which alphabet character they choose so we can have a proper discussion moving forward.

Military Inc.
Fauji foundation
Fauji fertiliser
Askari bank
NLC
FWO
DHA
PAF and Navy have similar but limited
Did l miss anything?

 

[PakFactor]

Military Inc.

I assess the same.

 

[Forsvaret]

Military Inc.
Fauji foundation
Fauji fertiliser
Askari bank
NLC
FWO
DHA
PAF and Navy have similar but limited
Did l miss anything?

When officers and soldiers in uniform engage in activities outside their military profession, do you expect conversation to be restricted to just the operational aspects when discussing the role of the Chief of Defense Forces?

It's up to the military to provide substance for us to discuss. The majority of the country is still trying to determine whether this is a political party, a business conglomerate, or a standing professional military.

Please let us know which alphabet character they choose so we can have a proper discussion moving forward.

Every country has an army, Pakistan army has a country.

 

[313Ghazi]

Military Inc.
Fauji foundation
Fauji fertiliser
Askari bank
NLC
FWO
DHA
PAF and Navy have similar but limited
Did l miss anything?

You must be another unpatriotic PTI supporter. How dare you point out the obvious.

Jai Boot.

 

[Ali_Baba]

Every country has an army, Pakistan army has a country.

That is the real core root of the problem for Pakistan, and why Pakistan continues to underperform compared to all the countries in South Asia. Most of the countries within the South Asian ecosystem of Bangladesh, India, Sri Lanka, Bhutan, Nepal have better economics/human development indexes than Pakistan's. That cannot be ignored anymore.

The brightest and best never join the armed forces and they most certainly do not join the army(the Airforce does have higher standards and smarter people tend to join them). The smartest people go into civilian life, and Pakistan is therefore denied the opportunity of the best of its intellectual capability of the brightest and best to improve to Pakistan. Instead, it is done by people who started their careers running up mountain tops with mock wooden bayonets shouting "aaaahhh - die straw man, die ...". Until this problem is fixed, and the smart people start making decisions, Pakistan will always lag behind.

 

[313Ghazi]

I don't think this is a "farcade." I believe it's an inevitable part of political reform in Pakistan.

Every country and every group of people, based on different cultural backgrounds, historical processes, and international environments, needs its own unique management model. In the process of exploration, various controversies will inevitably arise, and "wrong" policies are entirely possible.

Before inventing the light bulb, Edison experimented with countless materials. Ultimately, he succeeded. But he could never directly experiment with the last material... The same applies to politics, national management models...

Since 1949, Chinese politics has undergone many significant changes. Many of these major transformations have brought "disasters" to Chinese society. However, these problems were unavoidable. It is precisely because of these "catastrophic" political changes that we have learned which paths are feasible and which are not...

But China's current political system is not applicable to Pakistan.

Pakistan's current political system is primarily based on Western political systems, combined with Pakistan's specific circumstances. It differs fundamentally from China's political system in its basic structure. If Pakistan were to clone China's political model, it would bring serious disaster to Pakistan.

A small example: In China, there's something called the GFW (Great Firewall). It's one of the tools of China's political control model. If Pakistan adopted it, you'd be the first to object!

Your and our society is different. I'm not saying that we cannot learn from your political model, but we have our own challenges that we need to overcome. The two biggest difference between our societies are;

1. You are overwhelmingly ethnically similar. 91% Han. We are multi-ethnic and in large parts a society influenced by tribal culture. Even in our modern cities we have people who won't marry other people based on differences in identity such as clan/caste/inter-religious denomination. Those differences are exploited in an environment where resources are limited to create a "us and them" mentality - whereas in reality the only us and them, is the established elite Vs the rest of us.

2. Around 40% of our population cannot read and write, not even the bare basics. Of the other 60% you have seen the lack of quality of education on this very forum. Look how absent critical thinking is, look how prevalent rumours are, how undisciplined the discourse between us is. This is exploited by the people in power and great effort taken to keep it that way. They need it to remain in power.

China was washed with blood before it took it's journey. We don't have the courage for that.

 

[falcon34]

Is it true CDF will have administrative control over PAF and PN.

 

[313Ghazi]

The 27th Const. Amendment is essentially to give a Const. cover to something like what Imran was envisioning in late 2021 while working with some top Generals. The idea was not bad then nor bad now, in theory at least: Political stability and continuation of policies for at least ten years. Even Imran, as the PM, had major issues with the 18th Amendment which gave away too much Federal power to the Provinces. In the ongoing discussions, the PPP, grown used to the large sums of money given to Sindh, is resisting giving away the largesse which they blow away in corruption in Sindh.
But let's understand and appreciate what we have now: It is a 'Hybrid' system where the military is more dominant then ever since Zia's National Assembly of the 80s. What the Pakistanis are trying to do is to stabilize and grow the the economy, make the defense stronger, and ready to face India again and that war may come any time! The 27 Const. Amendment is a long term plan and I actually cautiously welcome it!

What part is your favourite?

The sidelining of the Supreme court? The immunity to Presidents and Generals? Or maybe the power grab over the rest of the armed forces by the COAS?

 

[Goenitz]

Your and our society is different. I'm not saying that we cannot learn from your political model, but we have our own challenges that we need to overcome. The two biggest difference between our societies are;

1. You are overwhelmingly ethnically similar. 91% Han. We are multi-ethnic and in large parts a society influenced by tribal culture. Even in our modern cities we have people who won't marry other people based on differences in identity such as clan/caste/inter-religious denomination. Those differences are exploited in an environment where resources are limited to create a "us and them" mentality - whereas in reality the only us and them, is the established elite Vs the rest of us.

2. Around 40% of our population cannot read and write, not even the bare basics. Of the other 60% you have seen the lack of quality of education on this very forum. Look how absent critical thinking is, look how prevalent rumours are, how undisciplined the discourse between us is. This is exploited by the people in power and great effort taken to keep it that way. They need it to remain in power.

China was washed with blood before it took it's journey. We don't have the courage for that.

Also, their success lies in having one main language (although there are various dialects). Lastly, China prospered when it decentralised its economy in the 1970s and 1980s under Deng Chao's era. Similarly, India did in 92 under M. Singh. While we think Pak could do better in a highly centralised environment. If so, we should revive one unit.

 

[313Ghazi]

Guys - has the text of this amendment or proposed version been released?

 

[Great Mal]

I don't think this is a "farcade." I believe it's an inevitable part of political reform in Pakistan.

Every country and every group of people, based on different cultural backgrounds, historical processes, and international environments, needs its own unique management model. In the process of exploration, various controversies will inevitably arise, and "wrong" policies are entirely possible.

Before inventing the light bulb, Edison experimented with countless materials. Ultimately, he succeeded. But he could never directly experiment with the last material... The same applies to politics, national management models...

Since 1949, Chinese politics has undergone many significant changes. Many of these major transformations have brought "disasters" to Chinese society. However, these problems were unavoidable. It is precisely because of these "catastrophic" political changes that we have learned which paths are feasible and which are not...

But China's current political system is not applicable to Pakistan.

Pakistan's current political system is primarily based on Western political systems, combined with Pakistan's specific circumstances. It differs fundamentally from China's political system in its basic structure. If Pakistan were to clone China's political model, it would bring serious disaster to Pakistan.

A small example: In China, there's something called the GFW (Great Firewall). It's one of the tools of China's political control model. If Pakistan adopted it, you'd be the first to object!

In today’s world, no one enjoys being a servant to the ruling elite. We’ve moved beyond the Mughal and Suri empires and simply want food on our tables without sacrificing half our lives for ten rupees.

If these ruling elites provided people with something to take home at the end of the day, no one would oppose their decisions. However, the reality is that the average Pakistani is poor and lacks representation in politics, governance or even basic education.

 

[Goenitz]

Guys - has the text of this amendment or proposed version been released?

i think that facility is not available to even our fake parliamentarians. At best, we have the version circulating on social media can be one among many.

 

[Great Mal]

When officers and soldiers in uniform engage in activities outside their military profession, do you expect conversation to be restricted to just the operational aspects when discussing the role of the Chief of Defense Forces?

It's up to the military to provide substance for us to discuss. The majority of the country is still trying to determine whether this is a political party, a business conglomerate, or a standing professional military.

Please let us know which alphabet character they choose so we can have a proper discussion moving forward.

Defending the motherland with each cereal box off the assembly

• Fauji Foundation
• Army Welfare Trust (AWT)
• Frontier Works Organization (FWO)
• National Logistics Cell (NLC)
• Fauji Cement Company Ltd
• Fauji Fertilizer Company Ltd
• Fauji Foods Ltd
• Fauji Kabirwala Power Company
• Foundation Gas
• Askari Bank Ltd
• Askari Cement Ltd
• Askari General Insurance Company
• Canteen Stores Department (CSD)
• Shaheen Airport Services
• Shaheen Foundation
• Defence Housing Authority (DHA)
• Bahria Foundation
• Mari Petroleum Company Ltd
• Army Welfare Sugar Mills
• AW Textile Mills
• Army Welfare Trust Real Estate Projects

 

[313Ghazi]

i think that facility is not available to even our fake parliamentarians. At best, we have the version circulating on social media can be one among many.

I'm sure DG ISPR will release it in due time.

 

[Fatman17]

Is it true CDF will have administrative control over PAF and PN.

Apparently