Babur-Class (MILGEM) Corvette | Updates & Discussion

A much desired induction and a force multiplier but why we name our weapons after outsiders/invaders . It could've been named for instance after any indigenous personality or land mark like Porus or Rai Ahmed or Indus or mohinjo dharo or Cecil Chaudhry etc class .
- Raja Porus lost.

- Most don't know who Rai Ahmed is - I'll confess that I didn't ... still don't

- Cecil Chaudhry - why would you want to name naval platform after air force guy? PN officers would rather name ships after their own.
 
Raja Porus lost.

Then why Alexander's militia retreated and not pursued subcontinental wealth then and there ? Fake news!

Most don't know who Rai Ahmed is - I'll confess that I didn't ... still don't
Ask the school education department and the concerned text book board .

Cecil Chaudhry - why would you want to name naval platform after air force guy? PN officers would rather name ships after their own.

yeah like babur used to be the admiral of the fleet and commanded the entire axis wolf pack in the Atlantic and else where .
 
Then why Alexander's militia retreated and not pursued subcontinental wealth then and there ? Fake news!


Ask the school education department and the concerned text book board .



yeah like babur used to be the admiral of the fleet and commanded the entire axis wolf pack in the Atlantic and else where .
First, I sense confrontation in your posts, which is disturbing. I don't think this is that kind of a shop.

Second, Alexander won the Battle of Hydaspes against Porus, but was impressed by Porus' bravery and confidence and especially by his response of "treat me as a king" when he asked captured Porus how he wished to be treated. All surviving ancient sources mention Alexander's victory - with him reinstating Porus to the throne as a vassal in the end. Alexander did not abandon his campaign after fighting Porus. He marched South into Sindh and Balochistan, and conquered the lands of Musicanus, Oxicanus, and Potricanus.
 
Second, Alexander won the Battle of Hydaspes against Porus, but was impressed by Porus' bravery and confidence and especially by his response of "treat me as a king" when he asked captured Porus how he wished to be treated.

Do you believe that fairy tale ? Alexander got Impressed by Porus and just left hunky dowry? Ghous paak's chronicles sound way more logical than that of this Shareef londa called Sikandar yoonani . :ROFLMAO:
 
but I think his story should be taken in a way which is about unity, struggle, and fighting against the aggressors
we should honor our ancient legends
These are again our own modern precepts and reconstructions without taking the actual events that led to the Battle of Hydaspes between Alexander and Porus into consideration. If anything, the entire event reeks of 'disunity' and ill-intents of the locals. When Alexander arrived in what is present day Punjab some of the local rulers submitted to him almost immediately and in their sycophantic submission manipulated him to fight Porus, whom they styled as belligerent. Although Alexander had his own interest [mainly conquest] in picking up this fight the support of these local rulers was one of the key triggers. Additionally, Porus was defending his own kingdom, not the whole region, and in anycase agreed to become Alexander's vassal - meaning he accepted subordination to Alexander.

Let's end this discussion here as it is off topic.
 
Maybe we need to look beyond VLS numbers and study the doctrine of PN as a whole. Maybe the number of VLS per boat stems from the doctrine itself and not $$$. Because in one of the other threads or maybe this one, the cost differential that was worked out between 16 to 32 cells was around US$80 million if I am not mistaken.

That estimate was for all 4 ships.
 
That estimate was for all 4 ships.
Also that was for JCF going from 16 -> 32

For the 4 Babur class going from 12 -> 16 is just $20 million

Which makes PN's decision of scaling them down from 16 to 12 very puzzling, unless of course there were space constraints
 
Maybe we need to look beyond VLS numbers and study the doctrine of PN as a whole. Maybe the number of VLS per boat stems from the doctrine itself and not $$$. Because in one of the other threads or maybe this one, the cost differential that was worked out between 16 to 32 cells was around US$80 million if I am not mistaken.
It's likely a combination, but yes, doctrine is the main player. For the PN, these surface ships aren't a primary warfighting option. Rather, they'll operate in waters closer to home to help with ASW operations (hence the emphasis on speed via CODAG, i.e., better responsiveness). The AAW will be just enough for self-defence more so than a naval IADS element.
 
Is there any other ship in the same Category which has only 12x Cell for AD ? Wondering where PN gets their idea of going for just 12 cells, I mean they could at least go for 16 cell, Leaving a ship without proper AD is criminal.
 
Is there any other ship in the same Category which has only 12x Cell for AD ? Wondering where PN gets their idea of going for just 12 cells, I mean they could at least go for 16 cell, Leaving a ship without proper AD is criminal.
Yup 16 is usually the minimum even for corvettes. Even the Ada class technically has 21 missiles even if they are very short ranged. It's definitely something to think about.
 
Is there any other ship in the same Category which has only 12x Cell for AD ? Wondering where PN gets their idea of going for just 12 cells, I mean they could at least go for 16 cell, Leaving a ship without proper AD is criminal.
I'd look at it this way: the PN's choice here shows that it understands that frigates and corvettes aren't going to amount to much in an active hot war. So, most of the money is going into the most crucial warfighting assets, i.e., submarines.

OTOH, these ships will serve for decades and will undergo a mid-life-update; so, eventually, a larger VLS capacity will probably come (e.g., via quad-packing).

Otherwise, the ships are adequately armed for scenarios in which India may try to pull a fast one, in tense or even peacetime. However, if matters escalate past that point and into a war, then all focus is on the Hangor subs.
 
I'd look at it this way: the PN's choice here shows that it understands that frigates and corvettes aren't going to amount to much in an active hot war. So, most of the money is going into the most crucial warfighting assets, i.e., submarines.

OTOH, these ships will serve for decades and will undergo a mid-life-update; so, eventually, a larger VLS capacity will probably come (e.g., via quad-packing).

Otherwise, the ships are adequately armed for scenarios in which India may try to pull a fast one, in tense or even peacetime. However, if matters escalate past that point and into a war, then all focus is on the Hangor subs.
Frankly this is a poor way of looking at the role of such an investment. Ships that are not designed to be effective in pitched battles should not be bought for $300M/ship. If you dont find it worth protecting then get smaller or cheaper ships that can perform most of those peacetime policing duties while still able to perform antiship strikes with Harbah. Basically Yarmook/Yarmook batch 2 were exactly that. Batch 2 will basically have most of the surface strike capabilities and anti air capabilities as babur. But its commercial grade steel hull is far less expensive. Its not the sub hunter Baburs are but is half the price or less.

If you are dropping $300M per ship, you need to protect it. So I agree with you that an MLU will likely bring MILDAS/Quad pack missiles. But it is baffleing why JCF isnt designedwith these in mind. I will however point our that the VLS system ij Yarmook batch 2 seems to not yet be installed so who knows.
 
Frankly this is a poor way of looking at the role of such an investment. Ships that are not designed to be effective in pitched battles should not be bought for $300M/ship. If you dont find it worth protecting then get smaller or cheaper ships that can perform most of those peacetime policing duties while still able to perform antiship strikes with Harbah. Basically Yarmook/Yarmook batch 2 were exactly that. Batch 2 will basically have most of the surface strike capabilities and anti air capabilities as babur. But its commercial grade steel hull is far less expensive. Its not the sub hunter Baburs are but is half the price or less.

If you are dropping $300M per ship, you need to protect it. So I agree with you that an MLU will likely bring MILDAS/Quad pack missiles. But it is baffleing why JCF isnt designedwith these in mind. I will however point our that the VLS system ij Yarmook batch 2 seems to not yet be installed so who knows.
The PN won't be putting the corvettes and frigates in a situation where they'd need to expend every single one of their SAMs, though. That was my point. The PN isn't going to rely on these ships for war-fighting far from Pakistani shores. During a full-scale war, they'll primarily serve as responsive ASW platforms within the PAF's coverage layers. Basically, the frigates and corvettes won't be the primary source of anything in a full-scale war. That's not their job. Their job is to ensure Pakistan's maritime security in the ambiguous phases, such as high-tension situations where, potentially, an IN warship, submarine, or FAC could try something to pull points and force an escalatory issue.

Also, much of the high cost of the B/J-Class has to do with the AAW suite itself. It and the engines are the only major Western inputs involved; otherwise, the rest is of Turkish and domestic origin.
 

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