Iranian Air Force (IRIAF/IRGC-ASF) | News and Discussions

[Flotilla]

For a considerable period in the future, Iran will face delivery problems when purchasing any Russian fighter jets (including the Su-35 and Su-57).

This is due to the impact of the Russia-Ukraine war:
1. Russia has limited production capacity.
2. The Russian Air Force itself has a huge shortage of fighter jets.

If Iran is willing to wait for a longer period, or accept receiving only a very small number of fighter jets each year, then your point is indeed valid.

Hope you're wrong but It is likely. At least Algeria have received this week x2 Su57 and a month ago some Su34. But they're VIP customers.

 

[OldTwilight]

Time will tell, but their recent experience with the "Supreme leader" hiding under a mountain in Tehran, running between multiple locations for his dear life, while the IDF Airforce tried to hunt him down to kill him, and bombing the locations he was at, should have changed both his mind and that of the regime as a whole.

I will be astounded if it has not. People, do eventually "learn", however bad things may look like on the outside.

Self survival of the regime itself has got to include a stronger airforce now, so don't underestimate the value of self interest.

khamenei is just face figure now , they just want keep current status quo and continue to steal from Iran

 

[Michael]

Hope you're wrong but It is likely. At least Algeria have received this week x2 Su57 and a month ago some Su34. But they're VIP customers.

Of course, if Iran is willing to receive these fighter jets at a rate of a few aircraft per year, then there is no problem.

Maybe. They could take some better approaches.

For example, Iran could directly negotiate a technology transfer with Russia, with Iran manufacturing the airframe components and performing final assembly domestically, while Russia provides the engines and other parts.
This might result in a faster production rate, and Iran would acquire the relevant technology.

But, Russia might demand a very large purchase order.

 

[Ali_Baba]

Hope you're wrong but It is likely. At least Algeria have received this week x2 Su57 and a month ago some Su34. But they're VIP customers.

They have a consistent history of buying systems, being a good customer, paying on time and doing so without a lot of noise or theatrics and "political posturing" that I suspect Iran has engaged in what they think is getting the "best deal" is ( my observations ).

 

[Deino]

With 1/8 of the world population, unhindered access to Western tech, they still can not build shit .

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Tejas crash | Tejas LCA Mk1A: All about India's first indigenously-developed fighter jet - The Statesman

According to the HAL, Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) Tejas is a 4.5 generation, all-weather and multi-role fighter aircraft. Tejas, as a multi-role aircraft, can undertake offensive air support, close combat and ground attack with ease. The fighter jet is also capable of undertaking ground maritime...

www.thestatesman.com

Why are you posting this in the Iranian AF section other with the intention to troll?

Shame on you.

 

[FUB]

Why are you posting this in the Iranian AF section other with the intention to troll?

Shame on you.

It is very relevant because it draws parallels that no matter how many papers are plagiarized, your masters will never allow the brown servants on the yacht. It is quite embarrassing for India . It brings us back full circle on why Iran’s indigenous air craft production has been a disappointment. The obvious fact is money however, the bigger issue is that the exclusive club will not share and there will never be a material TOT. Now the embarrassing part for India , with one billion people ,the world saw that India’s engineering and manufacturing capacity is a joke. They are laughing in Beijing .

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[ToddE]

Of course, if Iran is willing to receive these fighter jets at a rate of a few aircraft per year, then there is no problem.

Maybe. They could take some better approaches.

For example, Iran could directly negotiate a technology transfer with Russia, with Iran manufacturing the airframe components and performing final assembly domestically, while Russia provides the engines and other parts.
This might result in a faster production rate, and Iran would acquire the relevant technology.

But, Russia might demand a very large purchase order.

Russia and Iran have minimal defense relations despite how it looks from outside. Russia providing a large order of a 4.5 generation Air-superiority Multirole Combat Aircraft (SU-35S) is a strategic move. Anyone with information on Russo-Iranian relations will have a hard time believing it can happen between rivals. Russia and Iran have been historical bitter rivals until revolution. Post revolution, IRI leadership tries to portray themselves as Russian Strategic partners but its one way traffic with Iran giving favors to Russia but getting nothing in return. Russia cancelled MIG-31, MIG-29, SU-24 deal in 1991-92. They then cancelled S-300 PMU2 in 2010s. Both times they took money then backed out after western pressure. They supported sanctions on Iran as well. Took Iranian attack drone TOT with which they are fighting 80% of their war on Ukraine and gave nothing in return. Recent Epstein-Ehud Barak leaks suggest Putin allowed Israeli attacks in Syria on Iranian military infrastructure due to dealings with Israelis behind Iranian back, all when IRI was supporting Russian invasion of Ukraine both morally and materialistically. You should read more on the subject before suggesting Engines and Radars TOTs.

 

[Arash]

So called engineering............

 

[OldTwilight]

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they are back to their old games

they got job with kos sher goftan and khaye Malli ... so they continue it too keep their position and privileged

 

[FUB]

they got job with kos sher goftan and khaye Malli ... so they continue it too keep their position and privileged

WTH. Someone needs to tell these a.holes that the world has evolved and is no longer analog. Good sir, stop smoking the Afghan hash.

 

[tsunset]

It is very relevant because it draws parallels that no matter how many papers are plagiarized, your masters will never allow the brown servants on the yacht. It is quite embarrassing for India . It brings us back full circle on why Iran’s indigenous air craft production has been a disappointment. The obvious fact is money however, the bigger issue is that the exclusive club will not share and there will never be a material TOT. Now the embarrassing part for India , with one billion people ,the world saw that India’s engineering and manufacturing capacity is a joke. They are laughing in Beijing .

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Why talking about HAL Tejas in IRIAF thread when there is a dedicated thread for the crash? IRIAF doesn't possess any Tejas or any Indian aircraft and is not looking to buy any of them

 

[Michael]

Russia and Iran have minimal defense relations despite how it looks from outside. Russia providing a large order of a 4.5 generation Air-superiority Multirole Combat Aircraft (SU-35S) is a strategic move. Anyone with information on Russo-Iranian relations will have a hard time believing it can happen between rivals. Russia and Iran have been historical bitter rivals until revolution. Post revolution, IRI leadership tries to portray themselves as Russian Strategic partners but its one way traffic with Iran giving favors to Russia but getting nothing in return. Russia cancelled MIG-31, MIG-29, SU-24 deal in 1991-92. They then cancelled S-300 PMU2 in 2010s. Both times they took money then backed out after western pressure. They supported sanctions on Iran as well. Took Iranian attack drone TOT with which they are fighting 80% of their war on Ukraine and gave nothing in return. Recent Epstein-Ehud Barak leaks suggest Putin allowed Israeli attacks in Syria on Iranian military infrastructure due to dealings with Israelis behind Iranian back, all when IRI was supporting Russian invasion of Ukraine both morally and materialistically. You should read more on the subject before suggesting Engines and Radars TOTs.

I haven't delved into the international political and diplomatic issues between Iran and Russia. I'm simply discussing this based on real-world circumstances. Iran has already ordered Su-35S aircraft, so further cooperation between Iran and Russia shouldn't face significant obstacles.

I have some understanding of the historical grievances between Iran and Russia, but certainly not as much as you do. However, I don't think the grievances between Iran and Russia are more complex than those between China and Russia. At least, Russia has never threatened Iran with nuclear weapons, but they have threatened China with them.

In international relations, the relationship between any two countries is constantly changing, and no two countries have an absolutely close relationship. In relations between nations, the only constant is self-interest.

The best diplomatic strategy is to maximize one's own interests within this volatile relationship.

Therefore, you should never expect other countries to voluntarily share core technologies with you. Military technology transfer agreements only open a window for you; whether you can become the master of the room depends on your own efforts.

 

[ToddE]

Does the Indian plane have FBW ?

I haven't delved into the international political and diplomatic issues between Iran and Russia. I'm simply discussing this based on real-world circumstances. Iran has already ordered Su-35S aircraft, so further cooperation between Iran and Russia shouldn't face significant obstacles.

Russia has historically used Post Revolution Iran as bargaining chip against West. Fighter jet deal cancellation in 1991, S-300 fiasco, Nuclear sanctions, Caspian Sea water scandal, all pointed to the disbalance relations. Recent leakages are pointing towards Putin selling Iran to US-Israel in Syria. I am not against Russia by any means but IRI should have acted smart with Moscow which they did not.

I have some understanding of the historical grievances between Iran and Russia, but certainly not as much as you do. However, I don't think the grievances between Iran and Russia are more complex than those between China and Russia. At least, Russia has never threatened Iran with nuclear weapons, but they have threatened China with them.

For a Chinese person to not know the history of bordering Eurasia is surprising but here it is. Iran and Russia have been bitter enemies for centuries, Russia took entire Caucasus from Iran including chunks of Iran itself by force not too long ago. Armenia, Georgia, Azerbaijan etc were provinces of Iran, same people, same genetics and history yet they were carved out of Iran by force. Post WWII, USSR again tried to carve out Soviet republics out of North western Iran but had to back out due to US pressure. Shah led Iran was an armed to teeth problem for USSR (Read Operation Dark Gene). Revolution in Iran ended this rivalry but Russia never treated Iran as an ally.

In international relations, the relationship between any two countries is constantly changing, and no two countries have an absolutely close relationship. In relations between nations, the only constant is self-interest.

Iranian government is a Islamo-Marxist revolutionary theocracy that cares for their ideas by staying in power, more than interests of Iranian nation.

The best diplomatic strategy is to maximize one's own interests within this volatile relationship.

Therefore, you should never expect other countries to voluntarily share core technologies with you. Military technology transfer agreements only open a window for you; whether you can become the master of the room depends on your own efforts.

SU-35S is not some core technology. Its just another variant of SU-27 from 1977. Its literal designation was SU-27M before they started to call it SU-35S. It has no AESA radar, no light weight long ranged BVR like meteor, it has no ALBM package or Stealth tech. Yes for IRIAF its a must to have considering Iranian government killed the force deliberately. SU-57 can be called the real cutting edge tech though.

 

[Michael]

Russia has historically used Post Revolution Iran as bargaining chip against West. Fighter jet deal cancellation in 1991, S-300 fiasco, Nuclear sanctions, Caspian Sea water scandal, all pointed to the disbalance relations. Recent leakages are pointing towards Putin selling Iran to US-Israel in Syria. I am not against Russia by any means but IRI should have acted smart with Moscow which they did not.
For a Chinese person to not know the history of bordering Eurasia is surprising but here it is. Iran and Russia have been bitter enemies for centuries, Russia took entire Caucasus from Iran including chunks of Iran itself by force not too long ago. Armenia, Georgia, Azerbaijan etc were provinces of Iran, same people, same genetics and history yet they were carved out of Iran by force. Post WWII, USSR again tried to carve out Soviet republics out of North western Iran but had to back out due to US pressure. Shah led Iran was an armed to teeth problem for USSR (Read Operation Dark Gene). Revolution in Iran ended this rivalry but Russia never treated Iran as an ally.
Iranian government is a Islamo-Marxist revolutionary theocracy that cares for their ideas by staying in power, more than interests of Iranian nation.

Given our different cultural backgrounds, it's not appropriate for us to delve into in-depth discussions about historical and political issues. Furthermore, this is a military thread, so let's get back to the topic.

SU-35S is not some core technology. Its just another variant of SU-27 from 1977. Its literal designation was SU-27M before they started to call it SU-35S. It has no AESA radar, no light weight long ranged BVR like meteor, it has no ALBM package or Stealth tech. Yes for IRIAF its a must to have considering Iranian government killed the force deliberately. SU-57 can be called the real cutting edge tech though.

Regardless of how you evaluate the Su-35S, the fact is that Iran has officially purchased it. This is the best option available to Iran under its current circumstances.
Unfortunately, you don't have any other better options.

The Su-57E is not suitable for direct entry into service with the Iranian Air Force.
------ We have already discussed this issue in depth in another thread. Any 5th-generation fighter jet requires a corresponding combination of 4th-4.5th-generation fighter jets as partners and guides. You cannot skip these 4th-4.5th-generation fighter jets and directly introduce 5th-generation fighter jets.
------ You need to first introduce the corresponding 4th-4.5th-generation fighter jets and perfect the corresponding air combat system before considering introducing the corresponding 5th-generation fighter jets. That is, if Iran wants to buy the Chinese J-35 fighter jet, it must first purchase the Chinese J-10CE fighter jet (other Chinese 4.5th-generation fighter jets are also acceptable) and other supporting air combat systems. This is a prerequisite.

Regardless of how you evaluate the Su-35S fighter jet, it is certainly far more advanced than any fighter jet currently in the Iranian Air Force.
Although most people believe that the J-10CE has a much more advanced avionics system than the Su-35S, this is only one aspect of fighter jet evaluation. Based on the operating environment in Iran, the Su-35S, a heavy fighter, is more suitable than the J-10CE, a medium fighter. Furthermore, the J-10CE fighter is more dependent on an integrated air combat system, while the Su-35S is less dependent on such a system.
Based on these realities, I believe that the Su-35S is more suitable for the current Iranian Air Force than the J-10CE.

Russia is currently facing both internal and external difficulties. They urgently need to expand broader international cooperation. When Russians are in distress, they are willing to negotiate on any terms, without any bottom line. (You can recall what Russia sold off during the collapse of the Soviet Union...)
Therefore, now is the best time for Iran to negotiate a technology transfer agreement for the Su-35S with Russia. Once Russia's situation improves, their bargaining power will increase.
Of course, what Iran ultimately obtains depends on the negotiating skills of the Iranians. More importantly, it depends on whether the Iranians put in sufficient effort through these collaborations.

India imported the complete Su-30MKI technology from Russia...... To this day, India is still unable to independently manufacture the Su-30MKI.
China imported Su-27 assembly and maintenance technology from Russia...... Today......
So, if Iran were to acquire the complete Su-35S technology package, to what extent could Iran ultimately develop its capabilities? This would entirely depend on Iran itself, not Russia.

 

[ToddE]

Given our different cultural backgrounds, it's not appropriate for us to delve into in-depth discussions about historical and political issues. Furthermore, this is a military thread, so let's get back to the topic.

You were suggesting TOTs from Russia to Iran, engines and radars etc. Obviously you did not know that Russia is not reliable supplier to Iran so you needed to know the historical betrayals by Moscow which now you do. Hence, every single thing I wrote is relevant to the what I wrote before about disbalance in Iran-Russia relations.

Regardless of how you evaluate the Su-35S, the fact is that Iran has officially purchased it. This is the best option available to Iran under its current circumstances.
Unfortunately, you don't have any other better options.

Even new airframes of old MIG-29 9.13 would be a blessing for IRIAF right now but that does not mean it would be "cutting edge" tech transfer. Neither is SU-35S. Its a massively upgraded SU-27M airframe with early 2000s avionics. IRIAF needs planes and its available but its no stealth 5th gen MRCA where world is moving.

The Su-57E is not suitable for direct entry into service with the Iranian Air Force.
------ We have already discussed this issue in depth in another thread. Any 5th-generation fighter jet requires a corresponding combination of 4th-4.5th-generation fighter jets as partners and guides. You cannot skip these 4th-4.5th-generation fighter jets and directly introduce 5th-generation fighter jets.
------ You need to first introduce the corresponding 4th-4.5th-generation fighter jets and perfect the corresponding air combat system before considering introducing the corresponding 5th-generation fighter jets. That is, if Iran wants to buy the Chinese J-35 fighter jet, it must first purchase the Chinese J-10CE fighter jet (other Chinese 4.5th-generation fighter jets are also acceptable) and other supporting air combat systems. This is a prerequisite.

I never said Iran should directly order loads of SU-57 right now, skipping 4th gen stop overs. My point was that only plane that can be called cutting edge in Russian arsenal is SU-57, and thats available for export (Algerian case). Rest of the flankers lack usual 4+ gen essentials. IRBIS-E is a PESA radar for starters which can be jammed. R-37 is R-33 derivative from 1990s. I am not insulting the machine, I am just saying its not that modern as people make it. If Iran gets some 50-60 airframes, it will literally be a replacement for the F-14A fleet that thrashed enemy in 1980s. IRBIS-E + R-37 are just mild improvements over AWG-9 + AIM-54A, not drastic ones.

Regarding rest of what you wrote, if you read my posts here I am often saying that IRIAF should focus on training pilots hence they should induct a fleet of 50-60 YAK-130E/M right away. 18 are already inside Iran, fleet size should increase. I was also highly in favor of building ~80 Kowsar light aircrafts because they could have trained new crop of Iranian pilots on 4th gen avionics, datalinking, network centric warfare with IADS, drones etc.

Regardless of how you evaluate the Su-35S fighter jet, it is certainly far more advanced than any fighter jet currently in the Iranian Air Force.

Again, nobody compared SU-35S with Iranian aircrafts except you are doing it repeatedly.

Although most people believe that the J-10CE has a much more advanced avionics system than the Su-35S, this is only one aspect of fighter jet evaluation. Based on the operating environment in Iran, the Su-35S, a heavy fighter, is more suitable than the J-10CE, a medium fighter. Furthermore, the J-10CE fighter is more dependent on an integrated air combat system, while the Su-35S is less dependent on such a system.
Based on these realities, I believe that the Su-35S is more suitable for the current Iranian Air Force than the J-10CE.

Both are kinda useless without TOT or CKD assembly inside Iran with local production of critical spare parts. You can park a fleet of 200 F-22s but if you cant maintain, upgrade them locally then fleet will become useless in an elongated war. It happened to IRIAF in 1980s war with Baathist Arab coalition. Israel and later US helped Iranian fleet stay in air which helped Iran completely destroy the enemy airforce. Supply of parts, maintanance etc is far more important than just procuring airframes withlocal infrastructure. Whoever among China and Russia is offering that to Iran should be prefered.

Russia is currently facing both internal and external difficulties. They urgently need to expand broader international cooperation. When Russians are in distress, they are willing to negotiate on any terms, without any bottom line. (You can recall what Russia sold off during the collapse of the Soviet Union...)
Therefore, now is the best time for Iran to negotiate a technology transfer agreement for the Su-35S with Russia. Once Russia's situation improves, their bargaining power will increase.
Of course, what Iran ultimately obtains depends on the negotiating skills of the Iranians. More importantly, it depends on whether the Iranians put in sufficient effort through these collaborations.

Russians do not trust Iranians, I gave examples above in my last post. IRI leadership is not serious in building air capabilities either. IRGCASF (missile corps) takes almost entire budget.

India imported the complete Su-30MKI technology from Russia...... To this day, India is still unable to independently manufacture the Su-30MKI.
China imported Su-27 assembly and maintenance technology from Russia...... Today......
So, if Iran were to acquire the complete Su-35S technology package, to what extent could Iran ultimately develop its capabilities? This would entirely depend on Iran itself, not Russia.

It depends upon Russia actually. They are the vendors here, Iran can wish for this and that but if vendor is not offering TOT then what can Mullah leadership of Iran do ? Two decades ago they refused RD-33 transfer to Iran, the entire MIG-29 fleet of IRIAF was about to be grounded. Few years later they refused S-300. List goes on and on. You are saying it like Russia has a supermarket of combat aviation products and Iran can walk in with a cart. Russians do not operate like that. Nobody outside China can even locally upgrade Russian 4th generation aircrafts without Russia recieving money through front companies in Belarus etc.