US Defence related thread

Hendarto

Registered Member
Joined
Jan 11, 2024
Messages
1,884
Reaction score
1,362
Reputation
128.7
Country of Origin
Country of Residence
Too much gold plating ends up over the budget,delay and reduces performance

1717174839967.png
#USNavy’s New Constellation Class Frigate Is A Mess Endless changes to the base FREMM design have contributed to major delays and now “unplanned weight growth” could lead to a loss of speed.The U.S. Navy's future Constellation class frigates could see their top speeds cut back to help mitigate unexpected growth in their overall weight. The Navy and shipbuilder Fincantieri Marinette Marine otherwise continue to grapple with the impacts of major changes in the ship's configuration compared to its Franco-Italian Fregata Europea Multi-Missione (FREMM) parent design.

The entire purpose of basing the Constellations on an existing in-production frigate was to help reduce costs, delivery times, and risk, but they have shaped up to be larger, heavier, and now years behind schedule.New details about weight growth, design instability, and other issues with theConstellation class frigate came in a report the U.S. Government Accountability Office (GAO), a Congressional watchdog, published yesterday. Just last week, the Navy awarded a new contract to Fincantieri Marinette Marine, valued at just over $1.04 billion, for another two of the frigates.

The service now has six Constellations on order, the first of which is currently under construction.At the same time, the Navy has already confirmed that it now the first Constellation class frigate may not be delivered until 2029, three years behind schedule. This would also be around nine years after Fincantieri Marinette Marine received its initial contract for the frigates and some seven years after the start of construction of the USS Constellation.As another data point about the current state of the initial Constellation class ship,

"the Navy reported that, as of September 2023, the shipbuilder had completed construction of only 3.6 percent of the lead ship as compared to the 35.5 percent it was scheduled to have completed by that point," GAO reported."A complicating factor in assessing new dates for frigate deliveries is the shipbuilder’s October 2023 reporting of unplanned weight growth in the frigate design – an increase of over 10 percent above the shipbuilder’s June 2020 weight estimate," according to GAO.


"The Navy’s decision to approve construction with incomplete elements of the ship design – including information gaps related to structural, piping, ventilation, and other systems – and the underestimation of adapting a foreign design to meet Navy requirements have driven this weight growth."It's worth noting here that by 2021, it had already become clear that the Constellation class design would be 24 feet longer and just over three and a half feet wider along the waterline compared to its FREMM parent.

In addition, the Navy said at that time that the Constellation's displacement had grown by around 500 tons "for margins and future growth."Whether or not the unplanned weight growth GAO has now disclosed is within the Navy's previously stated increased weight margin is unclear and The War Zone has reached out to Naval Sea Systems Command (NAVSEA) for more information.Regardless, "resolving this weight growth adds another dimension to the shipbuilder’s ongoing design activities, further diminishing the predictability of these already schedule-challenged efforts," per GAO's report. "

The Navy disclosed to us in April 2024 that it is considering a reduction in the frigate’s speed requirement as one potential way, among others, to resolve the weight growth affecting the ship’s design."To date, the Navy does not appear to have disclosed its speed requirements for the Constellation class, but the ships are reportedly expected to be able to sustain a cruising speed of at least 26 knots. This is in line with the stated "max continuous speed" of the Italian Bergamini class subvariant of the FREMM design, which is in excess of 27 knots, according to Fincantieri. A speed of at least around 30 knots would be necessary for keeping up with Navy carrier strike groups.

The War Zone has also reached out to NAVSEA for more details on other options being considered to help resolve and/or mitigate the weight growth issues.On top of all this, the construction of the USS Constellation had been proceeding, at least as of last year, without a finalized design."Design stability is achieved upon completion of a basic and functional design in a 3D model, using reliable vendor-furnished information incorporated to support an understanding of final system design, among other things," according to GAO. However, "the Navy began frigate construction in August 2022 with an incomplete functional design, counter to leading ship design practices."Overall, the design commonality between the Constellation and FREMM may now be as low as 15 percent, according to USNI News. GAO's new report says that this includes substantial changes to the combined diesel-electric and gas turbine propulsion system and associated machinery control systems, which has "increased cost and introduced integration risks, according to shipbuilder representatives."In addition, "the Navy adapted the parent design to accommodate... [new U.S.-specific mission] systems and meet Navy habitability and survivability requirements," GAO's report notes.

The War Zone did a deep dive into the Constellation class' expected capabilities, focused on questions surrounding the size of its Mk 41 Vertical Launch System (VLS) array, earlier this year, which you can find here.Beyond all this, "unplanned weight growth during ship construction can compromise ship capabilities in the short term (i.e., upon delivery of the ship to the fleet) and in the long term, as the fleet seeks to alter and improve initial capabilities over the planned decades-long service life of the ship," GAO has warned.Having extra margins for growth is critical. There has already been talk about integrating directed energy and other weapons, as well as other capabilities, on the Constellations down the road. Otherwise, it will be far more challenging economically to keep the ships operationally relevant over their service lives.GAO also cited the Navy's previous experience with the Littoral Combat Ship (LCS) program. The construction of the initial examples of both LCS subclasses deliberately began without a firm design, a process commonly known as concurrency. This resulted in the first two examples of both the Independenceand Freedom class designs being substantially different from the ships that followed. This, in turn, led to them quickly being relegated to training and test roles. The USS Freedom (LCS-1), the USS Independence (LCS-2), and the USS Coronado (LCS-4) have all now been decommissioned. The oldest of those ships, Freedom, had been in service for just 13 years.

The Navy is now moving to retire even more LCSs from both subclasses in the coming years.The Navy's decision to acquire the Constellation class frigates has been seen as a major rebuke of the LCS program and its persistent failure to live up to expectations. As already noted, using an established in-production parent design, a core requirement of what was originally known as the FFG(X) program, was supposed to help limit cost growth and other technical and schedule risks.For its part, in the face of increasing criticism of the progress, or lack thereof, in the development and construction of the Constellation class frigates even before the release of the GAO's new report, the Navy has largely placed the blame on workforce issues at the shipbuilder. There has been talk about bringing in a second shipyard to help with the production of the Constellations."In the case of the [Constellation class] frigate, quite frankly, it's a... recruiting and retention problem in Wisconsin," Secretary of the Navy Carlos Del Toro told members of the Senate Armed Services Committee at a hearing earlier this month.However, Mississippi Senator Roger Wicker, the ranking Republican on the Committee, had already disputed this in his opening remarks at that same hearing."

The Constellation class frigate will be three years late and will take nearly 10 years to deliver the lead ship. This is largely because the Navy cannot keep its requirements steady. Almost 70 percent of the requirements have changed since the Navy signed a contract," Wicker said. "So the outcome that we see today is no surprise. This is not an example of the industry underperforming. This is senior officials unable to manage a program. This is acquisition malpractice and a terrible waste of time and resources."Wicker's comments are well in line with what the GAO has now reported.How and when the Navy, together with Fincantieri Marinette Marine, will be able to finally stabilize the Constellation class' weight and other design elements, and whether the ship's top speed takes a hit as a result, very much remains to be seen.https://twz.com/sea/navys-new-constellation-class-frigate-is-a-mess…




8:28 AM · May 31, 2024
·
 
Last edited:
Too much gold plating ends up over the budget,delay and reduces performance

View attachment 44494
#USNavy’s New Constellation Class Frigate Is A Mess Endless changes to the base FREMM design have contributed to major delays and now “unplanned weight growth” could lead to a loss of speed.The U.S. Navy's future Constellation class frigates could see their top speeds cut back to help mitigate unexpected growth in their overall weight. The Navy and shipbuilder Fincantieri Marinette Marine otherwise continue to grapple with the impacts of major changes in the ship's configuration compared to its Franco-Italian Fregata Europea Multi-Missione (FREMM) parent design.

The entire purpose of basing the Constellations on an existing in-production frigate was to help reduce costs, delivery times, and risk, but they have shaped up to be larger, heavier, and now years behind schedule.New details about weight growth, design instability, and other issues with theConstellation class frigate came in a report the U.S. Government Accountability Office (GAO), a Congressional watchdog, published yesterday. Just last week, the Navy awarded a new contract to Fincantieri Marinette Marine, valued at just over $1.04 billion, for another two of the frigates.

The service now has six Constellations on order, the first of which is currently under construction.At the same time, the Navy has already confirmed that it now the first Constellation class frigate may not be delivered until 2029, three years behind schedule. This would also be around nine years after Fincantieri Marinette Marine received its initial contract for the frigates and some seven years after the start of construction of the USS Constellation.As another data point about the current state of the initial Constellation class ship,

"the Navy reported that, as of September 2023, the shipbuilder had completed construction of only 3.6 percent of the lead ship as compared to the 35.5 percent it was scheduled to have completed by that point," GAO reported."A complicating factor in assessing new dates for frigate deliveries is the shipbuilder’s October 2023 reporting of unplanned weight growth in the frigate design – an increase of over 10 percent above the shipbuilder’s June 2020 weight estimate," according to GAO.


"The Navy’s decision to approve construction with incomplete elements of the ship design – including information gaps related to structural, piping, ventilation, and other systems – and the underestimation of adapting a foreign design to meet Navy requirements have driven this weight growth."It's worth noting here that by 2021, it had already become clear that the Constellation class design would be 24 feet longer and just over three and a half feet wider along the waterline compared to its FREMM parent.

In addition, the Navy said at that time that the Constellation's displacement had grown by around 500 tons "for margins and future growth."Whether or not the unplanned weight growth GAO has now disclosed is within the Navy's previously stated increased weight margin is unclear and The War Zone has reached out to Naval Sea Systems Command (NAVSEA) for more information.Regardless, "resolving this weight growth adds another dimension to the shipbuilder’s ongoing design activities, further diminishing the predictability of these already schedule-challenged efforts," per GAO's report. "

The Navy disclosed to us in April 2024 that it is considering a reduction in the frigate’s speed requirement as one potential way, among others, to resolve the weight growth affecting the ship’s design."To date, the Navy does not appear to have disclosed its speed requirements for the Constellation class, but the ships are reportedly expected to be able to sustain a cruising speed of at least 26 knots. This is in line with the stated "max continuous speed" of the Italian Bergamini class subvariant of the FREMM design, which is in excess of 27 knots, according to Fincantieri. A speed of at least around 30 knots would be necessary for keeping up with Navy carrier strike groups.

The War Zone has also reached out to NAVSEA for more details on other options being considered to help resolve and/or mitigate the weight growth issues.On top of all this, the construction of the USS Constellation had been proceeding, at least as of last year, without a finalized design."Design stability is achieved upon completion of a basic and functional design in a 3D model, using reliable vendor-furnished information incorporated to support an understanding of final system design, among other things," according to GAO. However, "the Navy began frigate construction in August 2022 with an incomplete functional design, counter to leading ship design practices."Overall, the design commonality between the Constellation and FREMM may now be as low as 15 percent, according to USNI News. GAO's new report says that this includes substantial changes to the combined diesel-electric and gas turbine propulsion system and associated machinery control systems, which has "increased cost and introduced integration risks, according to shipbuilder representatives."In addition, "the Navy adapted the parent design to accommodate... [new U.S.-specific mission] systems and meet Navy habitability and survivability requirements," GAO's report notes.

The War Zone did a deep dive into the Constellation class' expected capabilities, focused on questions surrounding the size of its Mk 41 Vertical Launch System (VLS) array, earlier this year, which you can find here.Beyond all this, "unplanned weight growth during ship construction can compromise ship capabilities in the short term (i.e., upon delivery of the ship to the fleet) and in the long term, as the fleet seeks to alter and improve initial capabilities over the planned decades-long service life of the ship," GAO has warned.Having extra margins for growth is critical. There has already been talk about integrating directed energy and other weapons, as well as other capabilities, on the Constellations down the road. Otherwise, it will be far more challenging economically to keep the ships operationally relevant over their service lives.GAO also cited the Navy's previous experience with the Littoral Combat Ship (LCS) program. The construction of the initial examples of both LCS subclasses deliberately began without a firm design, a process commonly known as concurrency. This resulted in the first two examples of both the Independenceand Freedom class designs being substantially different from the ships that followed. This, in turn, led to them quickly being relegated to training and test roles. The USS Freedom (LCS-1), the USS Independence (LCS-2), and the USS Coronado (LCS-4) have all now been decommissioned. The oldest of those ships, Freedom, had been in service for just 13 years.

The Navy is now moving to retire even more LCSs from both subclasses in the coming years.The Navy's decision to acquire the Constellation class frigates has been seen as a major rebuke of the LCS program and its persistent failure to live up to expectations. As already noted, using an established in-production parent design, a core requirement of what was originally known as the FFG(X) program, was supposed to help limit cost growth and other technical and schedule risks.For its part, in the face of increasing criticism of the progress, or lack thereof, in the development and construction of the Constellation class frigates even before the release of the GAO's new report, the Navy has largely placed the blame on workforce issues at the shipbuilder. There has been talk about bringing in a second shipyard to help with the production of the Constellations."In the case of the [Constellation class] frigate, quite frankly, it's a... recruiting and retention problem in Wisconsin," Secretary of the Navy Carlos Del Toro told members of the Senate Armed Services Committee at a hearing earlier this month.However, Mississippi Senator Roger Wicker, the ranking Republican on the Committee, had already disputed this in his opening remarks at that same hearing."

The Constellation class frigate will be three years late and will take nearly 10 years to deliver the lead ship. This is largely because the Navy cannot keep its requirements steady. Almost 70 percent of the requirements have changed since the Navy signed a contract," Wicker said. "So the outcome that we see today is no surprise. This is not an example of the industry underperforming. This is senior officials unable to manage a program. This is acquisition malpractice and a terrible waste of time and resources."Wicker's comments are well in line with what the GAO has now reported.How and when the Navy, together with Fincantieri Marinette Marine, will be able to finally stabilize the Constellation class' weight and other design elements, and whether the ship's top speed takes a hit as a result, very much remains to be seen.https://twz.com/sea/navys-new-constellation-class-frigate-is-a-mess…




8:28 AM · May 31, 2024
·
5e1912503d73cd2e42caf4c625948d3a.gif
 
To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.


BATH, Maine - The U.S Navy accepted delivery of future USS Harvey C. Barnum, Jr. (DDG 124), from General Dynamics Bath Iron Works, Nov. 17.

The delivery of DDG 124 marks the official transfer of the ship from the shipbuilder to the Navy.

Delivery follows a rigorous series of at-sea and pier side trials designed to demonstrate the ship’s readiness and performance across propulsion, combat systems, communications, and navigation functions.

“The future USS Harvey C. Barnum, Jr. will deliver powerful capability to the Fleet and enhance our maritime advantage,” said Capt. Jay Young, Arleigh Burke-class program manager, Program Executive Office, Ships (PEO Ships). “DDG 124 and her crew will be a constant reminder of the service and commitment exhibited by her remarkable namesake.”

The ship is named after retired United States Marine Corps Col. Harvey C. Barnum, Jr., a Medal of Honor recipient recognized for his extraordinary heroism and valor during the Vietnam War. His leadership under fire and lifelong commitment to service embody the values of courage, honor, and dedication that define America’s naval force. One of the few living namesakes, Col. Barnum has closely followed the construction of DDG 124 and joined the crew, Navy programmatic team, and industry partners for the initial set of sea trials where he fired the first shot from the ship’s five-inch gun.

As an Arleigh Burke-class destroyer, DDG 124 is the most advanced multi-mission warships in the world. The ship will serve as a multi-mission surface combatant capable of conducting Anti-Air, Anti-Surface, and Anti-Submarine Warfare capabilities, providing robust defensive and offensive power in any maritime environment.

General Dynamics Bath Iron Works has seven additional future Arleigh Burke-class destroyers under construction: Louis H. Wilson Jr. (DDG 126), Patrick Gallagher (DDG 127), William Charette (DDG 130), Quentin Walsh (DDG 132), John E. Kilmer (DDG 134), Richard G. Lugar (DDG 136), and J. William Middendorf (DDG 138).
 
To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.


USSMass.avif
The future Virginia class attack submarine USS Massachusetts (SSN-798) participated in sea trials in October 2025. The U.S. Navy accepted delivery of the submarine from NNS on Nov. 21. HII photo

The 25th Virginia-class fast-attack submarine, the future USS Massachusetts (SSN-798), was delivered Friday to the Navy, according to sea service and industry officials.

Massachusetts was delivered by HII’s Newport News Shipbuilding Division, which was built in modular sections between HII’s Newport News Shipbuilding in Virginia and General Dynamics Electric Boat’s yard in Groton, Conn. The submarine was christened in 2023 and completed its first sea trials in October this year.

“Delivering Massachusetts after its rigorous sea trials is an important milestone commitment for our team this year,” Newport News Shipbuilding President Kari Wilkinson said in a news release. “We are absolutely steadfast in our resolve to increase the pace of submarine construction and see this as a solid step toward our overall objective.”

Massachusetts will be commissioned in a ceremony in Boston Harbor, according to the submarine’s commissioning committee. The date has not yet been announced, but the commissioning is slated to occur in the spring of 2026, Naval Sea Systems Command said.

The delivery of Massachusetts is just one of the Navy’s recent milestones. The service also commissioned the final Independence-variant Littoral Combat Ship, accepted the delivery of a future Arleigh Burke-class destroyer and christened the future Virginia-class USS Utah(SSN-801).
 
Named after my state. :nana:

Seriously, submarines are force multipliers, and no navy worth its salt can afford not to have them.
 
Thread purpose is for all those topics of interest that will likely not have enough interest for more than a post or two. This is the place for those items.
 
USAF is looking to fly the C-17 fleet up to 80 years by the time all air frames are replaced with the NGAL:


Makes sense because by the time all B-52s currently in service are retired, those aircraft will be between 80-100 years old!
 
Few months ago, I was flying between Tampa & Charlotte, somewhere around 1 hour into the flight, I was looking outside and saw a fighter jet flying by, it was super fast and due to lightening and little clouds it was hard to make which fighter jet it was, it would've been cool If i could record a small video of it because from the plane window seeing the fighter flying by was very awesome.
 
Strange, this ship should have been delivered last year
SSN79817.jpg
 
Probably the last of the Mohicans, future is not bright for boat building in US...
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Latest Posts

Back
Top