US Defence related thread

thanks for this @AZ_HighCountry ?

should this be merged to here : https://defencepk.com/forums/thread...uss-massachusetts-ssn-798.28735/#post-1032621 ?

@AZ_HighCountry ?

Or, should the US Defence forum have a "US Army News & Discussion", ""US Navy News & Discussion", "US Airforce Updates News & Discussion" as "stickies" that people should use, or this general thread if there is another content, and certain people from the USA need a training session on how to use them ;) please ( or have reputation points deducted if they don't ? ).

The same concept should apply to the China forum(imho).
 
thanks for this @AZ_HighCountry ?

should this be merged to here : https://defencepk.com/forums/thread...uss-massachusetts-ssn-798.28735/#post-1032621 ?

@AZ_HighCountry ?

Or, should the US Defence forum have a "US Army News & Discussion", ""US Navy News & Discussion", "US Airforce Updates News & Discussion" as "stickies" that people should use, or this general thread if there is another content, and certain people from the USA need a training session on how to use them ;) please ( or have reputation points deducted if they don't ? ).

The same concept should apply to the China forum(imho).
LOL......what you are proposing is already being discussed by the mod team. Will likely happen.

Will be looking into this more today including some thread moves.
 
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Another Virginia class sub USS Idaho SSN 799 and the second Flight 3 Burke DDG 128 are expected to be delivered to the Navy in the coming weeks
 

Navy Cancels Constellation-class Frigate Program, Considering New Small Surface Combatants​

The Navy is walking away from the Constellation-class frigate program to focus on new classes of warships the service can build faster, Secretary of the Navy John Phelan announced Tuesday on social media.

Under the terms negotiated with shipbuilder Fincantieri Marinette Marine, the Wisconsin shipyard will continue to build Constellation (FFG-62) and Congress (FFG-63) but will cancel the next four planned warships.

“We are reshaping how the Navy builds its fleet. Today, I can announce the first public action is a strategic shift away from the Constellation-class frigate program,” reads the statement from Phelan. “The Navy and our industry partners have reached a comprehensive framework that terminates, for the Navy’s convenience, the last four ships of the class, which have not begun construction.”

A senior defense official told reporters Tuesday that the cancellation of the ship program was part of the Navy’s latest effort to build and deliver new ship classes faster.

“A key factor in this decision is the need to grow the fleet faster to meet tomorrow’s threats. This framework seeks to put the Navy on a path to more rapidly construct new classes of ships and deliver capabilities our war fighters need in greater numbers and faster,” the official said.

In tandem, the wider Pentagon is retooling its acquisition system to emphasize speed.

“Speed to delivery is now our organizing principle,” Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth said in his Nov. 7 “Arsenal of Freedom” speech. “The sense of urgency has slipped too much, and when you look at what we face, we have to recapture it.”

According to Navy officials, the sea service is currently in the midst of a fleet design review that will shape how the service will develop new systems. The Navy has a requirement for 73 small surface combatants.

In terms of Marinette, the Navy will move ahead with the first two ships in the class to keep Marinette’s complex of three shipyards on the shores of Lake Michigan in operation. As of Tuesday, Constellation was about 12 percent complete. Doing so will enable the shipbuilder, which employs about 3,000 people across the three yards, to compete for future government work.

“It gives us a bit more ability to be flexible and to work with the shipbuilder through this period of time as we make this transition into future work,” the official said. “Maintaining this shipyard and its skilled workforce is imperative to the Navy’s long-term industrial base.”

Following the cut to the Constellation program, Marinette’s current order book includes the last Freedom-class Littoral Combat Ship that is expected to deliver this year and four Multi-Mission Surface Combatants for the Royal Saudi Navy based on the Freedom LCS design.

The senior official did not specify what ship classes Marinette could accommodate, however the Navy is moving to accelerate the Landing Ship Medium program and larger unmanned surface vehicles both programs could be built at the yard.

“Fincantieri has been a committed partner, and the Navy values this partnership, our investment and together we want to rapidly deliver capabilities to warfighters, so we believe that the Navy will honor the agreed framework and channel work in sectors such as amphibious, icebreaking, and special missions into our system of shipyards, while they determine how we can support with new types of small surface combatants, both manned and unmanned, that they want to rapidly field,” reads the statement from Fincantieri Marine Group CEO George Moutafis. “The key is to maximize the commitment and capabilities our system of shipyards represents.”

Now with the Navy and Italian parent Fincantieri agreeing to cap the Constellation program at two hulls, the service will ask for some of the money obligated for the frigate program for new ships.

“The Navy will work with Congress in the coming weeks to seek the reappropriation of a portion of the unspent frigate funds on more readily producible ships in Marinette,” a senior Navy official told USNI News on Tuesday. “We do hope to retain the unspent frigate funds, as I mentioned, and have them reallocated to other ships that can be built in Marinette and delivered to the fleet faster.”

The service has spent about $2 billion on the program, and Congress has appropriated a total of $7.6 billion for contract options for the six ships in the class, according to Navy budget data. It’s unclear how the service will request Congress distribute the money into new programs.

The Navy awarded the contract to build what would become the Constellation to Marinette in 2020 following about six years of deliberation after the Navy determined it would truncate the two classes of Littoral Combat Ships. Marinette previously built the Freedoms as a subcontractor to Lockheed Martin before competing for the frigate program on its own. The Navy decided that the competitors to base the warship on an existing parent design to speed up the design of the program. The Navy selected the FREMM multi-mission frigate, already operated by the French and Italian navies, as the parent via a Naval Sea Systems Command rapid requirements process.

However, once the complex design work commenced, the Navy and Marinette had to make vast changes to the design in order to meet stricter U.S. survivability standards. The delays resulted in an estimated three-year setback in the delivery of the first ship from 2026 to 2029 at a cost of about $1.5 billion.

“Sometimes, you’re just better off designing a new ship,” Navy’s former top acquisition executive Nickolas Guertin said at a conference in February. “Turns out modifying someone else’s design is a lot harder than it seems.”
 
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The ships certain defence media here used to promote all the time to the Greek readers and audience. LCS/MMSC and Constellation. The MoD used to go around the last 2 years talking about how Greece would "co-design" and produce Constellation class frigates in Greece not just for us,but also for the Americans. Most people are happy that this project is cancelled.
 

Navy Cancels Constellation-class Frigate Program, Considering New Small Surface Combatants​

The Navy is walking away from the Constellation-class frigate program to focus on new classes of warships the service can build faster, Secretary of the Navy John Phelan announced Tuesday on social media.

Under the terms negotiated with shipbuilder Fincantieri Marinette Marine, the Wisconsin shipyard will continue to build Constellation (FFG-62) and Congress (FFG-63) but will cancel the next four planned warships.

“We are reshaping how the Navy builds its fleet. Today, I can announce the first public action is a strategic shift away from the Constellation-class frigate program,” reads the statement from Phelan. “The Navy and our industry partners have reached a comprehensive framework that terminates, for the Navy’s convenience, the last four ships of the class, which have not begun construction.”

A senior defense official told reporters Tuesday that the cancellation of the ship program was part of the Navy’s latest effort to build and deliver new ship classes faster.

“A key factor in this decision is the need to grow the fleet faster to meet tomorrow’s threats. This framework seeks to put the Navy on a path to more rapidly construct new classes of ships and deliver capabilities our war fighters need in greater numbers and faster,” the official said.

In tandem, the wider Pentagon is retooling its acquisition system to emphasize speed.

“Speed to delivery is now our organizing principle,” Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth said in his Nov. 7 “Arsenal of Freedom” speech. “The sense of urgency has slipped too much, and when you look at what we face, we have to recapture it.”

According to Navy officials, the sea service is currently in the midst of a fleet design review that will shape how the service will develop new systems. The Navy has a requirement for 73 small surface combatants.

In terms of Marinette, the Navy will move ahead with the first two ships in the class to keep Marinette’s complex of three shipyards on the shores of Lake Michigan in operation. As of Tuesday, Constellation was about 12 percent complete. Doing so will enable the shipbuilder, which employs about 3,000 people across the three yards, to compete for future government work.

“It gives us a bit more ability to be flexible and to work with the shipbuilder through this period of time as we make this transition into future work,” the official said. “Maintaining this shipyard and its skilled workforce is imperative to the Navy’s long-term industrial base.”

Following the cut to the Constellation program, Marinette’s current order book includes the last Freedom-class Littoral Combat Ship that is expected to deliver this year and four Multi-Mission Surface Combatants for the Royal Saudi Navy based on the Freedom LCS design.

The senior official did not specify what ship classes Marinette could accommodate, however the Navy is moving to accelerate the Landing Ship Medium program and larger unmanned surface vehicles both programs could be built at the yard.

“Fincantieri has been a committed partner, and the Navy values this partnership, our investment and together we want to rapidly deliver capabilities to warfighters, so we believe that the Navy will honor the agreed framework and channel work in sectors such as amphibious, icebreaking, and special missions into our system of shipyards, while they determine how we can support with new types of small surface combatants, both manned and unmanned, that they want to rapidly field,” reads the statement from Fincantieri Marine Group CEO George Moutafis. “The key is to maximize the commitment and capabilities our system of shipyards represents.”

Now with the Navy and Italian parent Fincantieri agreeing to cap the Constellation program at two hulls, the service will ask for some of the money obligated for the frigate program for new ships.

“The Navy will work with Congress in the coming weeks to seek the reappropriation of a portion of the unspent frigate funds on more readily producible ships in Marinette,” a senior Navy official told USNI News on Tuesday. “We do hope to retain the unspent frigate funds, as I mentioned, and have them reallocated to other ships that can be built in Marinette and delivered to the fleet faster.”

The service has spent about $2 billion on the program, and Congress has appropriated a total of $7.6 billion for contract options for the six ships in the class, according to Navy budget data. It’s unclear how the service will request Congress distribute the money into new programs.

The Navy awarded the contract to build what would become the Constellation to Marinette in 2020 following about six years of deliberation after the Navy determined it would truncate the two classes of Littoral Combat Ships. Marinette previously built the Freedoms as a subcontractor to Lockheed Martin before competing for the frigate program on its own. The Navy decided that the competitors to base the warship on an existing parent design to speed up the design of the program. The Navy selected the FREMM multi-mission frigate, already operated by the French and Italian navies, as the parent via a Naval Sea Systems Command rapid requirements process.

However, once the complex design work commenced, the Navy and Marinette had to make vast changes to the design in order to meet stricter U.S. survivability standards. The delays resulted in an estimated three-year setback in the delivery of the first ship from 2026 to 2029 at a cost of about $1.5 billion.

“Sometimes, you’re just better off designing a new ship,” Navy’s former top acquisition executive Nickolas Guertin said at a conference in February. “Turns out modifying someone else’s design is a lot harder than it seems.”
Sources in Italy told Defense News the work on the six frigates had been worth $5.5 billion. Continuing work on the first two, plus indemnities agreed with the U.S. government, would be worth $3 billion, while new orders planned would be worth $2 billion.

 
Sources in Italy told Defense News the work on the six frigates had been worth $5.5 billion. Continuing work on the first two, plus indemnities agreed with the U.S. government, would be worth $3 billion, while new orders planned would be worth $2 billion.

Wasted money.
 
Too much gold plating ends up over the budget,delay and reduces performance

View attachment 44494
#USNavy’s New Constellation Class Frigate Is A Mess Endless changes to the base FREMM design have contributed to major delays and now “unplanned weight growth” could lead to a loss of speed.The U.S. Navy's future Constellation class frigates could see their top speeds cut back to help mitigate unexpected growth in their overall weight. The Navy and shipbuilder Fincantieri Marinette Marine otherwise continue to grapple with the impacts of major changes in the ship's configuration compared to its Franco-Italian Fregata Europea Multi-Missione (FREMM) parent design.

The entire purpose of basing the Constellations on an existing in-production frigate was to help reduce costs, delivery times, and risk, but they have shaped up to be larger, heavier, and now years behind schedule.New details about weight growth, design instability, and other issues with theConstellation class frigate came in a report the U.S. Government Accountability Office (GAO), a Congressional watchdog, published yesterday. Just last week, the Navy awarded a new contract to Fincantieri Marinette Marine, valued at just over $1.04 billion, for another two of the frigates.

The service now has six Constellations on order, the first of which is currently under construction.At the same time, the Navy has already confirmed that it now the first Constellation class frigate may not be delivered until 2029, three years behind schedule. This would also be around nine years after Fincantieri Marinette Marine received its initial contract for the frigates and some seven years after the start of construction of the USS Constellation.As another data point about the current state of the initial Constellation class ship,

"the Navy reported that, as of September 2023, the shipbuilder had completed construction of only 3.6 percent of the lead ship as compared to the 35.5 percent it was scheduled to have completed by that point," GAO reported."A complicating factor in assessing new dates for frigate deliveries is the shipbuilder’s October 2023 reporting of unplanned weight growth in the frigate design – an increase of over 10 percent above the shipbuilder’s June 2020 weight estimate," according to GAO.


"The Navy’s decision to approve construction with incomplete elements of the ship design – including information gaps related to structural, piping, ventilation, and other systems – and the underestimation of adapting a foreign design to meet Navy requirements have driven this weight growth."It's worth noting here that by 2021, it had already become clear that the Constellation class design would be 24 feet longer and just over three and a half feet wider along the waterline compared to its FREMM parent.

In addition, the Navy said at that time that the Constellation's displacement had grown by around 500 tons "for margins and future growth."Whether or not the unplanned weight growth GAO has now disclosed is within the Navy's previously stated increased weight margin is unclear and The War Zone has reached out to Naval Sea Systems Command (NAVSEA) for more information.Regardless, "resolving this weight growth adds another dimension to the shipbuilder’s ongoing design activities, further diminishing the predictability of these already schedule-challenged efforts," per GAO's report. "

The Navy disclosed to us in April 2024 that it is considering a reduction in the frigate’s speed requirement as one potential way, among others, to resolve the weight growth affecting the ship’s design."To date, the Navy does not appear to have disclosed its speed requirements for the Constellation class, but the ships are reportedly expected to be able to sustain a cruising speed of at least 26 knots. This is in line with the stated "max continuous speed" of the Italian Bergamini class subvariant of the FREMM design, which is in excess of 27 knots, according to Fincantieri. A speed of at least around 30 knots would be necessary for keeping up with Navy carrier strike groups.

The War Zone has also reached out to NAVSEA for more details on other options being considered to help resolve and/or mitigate the weight growth issues.On top of all this, the construction of the USS Constellation had been proceeding, at least as of last year, without a finalized design."Design stability is achieved upon completion of a basic and functional design in a 3D model, using reliable vendor-furnished information incorporated to support an understanding of final system design, among other things," according to GAO. However, "the Navy began frigate construction in August 2022 with an incomplete functional design, counter to leading ship design practices."Overall, the design commonality between the Constellation and FREMM may now be as low as 15 percent, according to USNI News. GAO's new report says that this includes substantial changes to the combined diesel-electric and gas turbine propulsion system and associated machinery control systems, which has "increased cost and introduced integration risks, according to shipbuilder representatives."In addition, "the Navy adapted the parent design to accommodate... [new U.S.-specific mission] systems and meet Navy habitability and survivability requirements," GAO's report notes.

The War Zone did a deep dive into the Constellation class' expected capabilities, focused on questions surrounding the size of its Mk 41 Vertical Launch System (VLS) array, earlier this year, which you can find here.Beyond all this, "unplanned weight growth during ship construction can compromise ship capabilities in the short term (i.e., upon delivery of the ship to the fleet) and in the long term, as the fleet seeks to alter and improve initial capabilities over the planned decades-long service life of the ship," GAO has warned.Having extra margins for growth is critical. There has already been talk about integrating directed energy and other weapons, as well as other capabilities, on the Constellations down the road. Otherwise, it will be far more challenging economically to keep the ships operationally relevant over their service lives.GAO also cited the Navy's previous experience with the Littoral Combat Ship (LCS) program. The construction of the initial examples of both LCS subclasses deliberately began without a firm design, a process commonly known as concurrency. This resulted in the first two examples of both the Independenceand Freedom class designs being substantially different from the ships that followed. This, in turn, led to them quickly being relegated to training and test roles. The USS Freedom (LCS-1), the USS Independence (LCS-2), and the USS Coronado (LCS-4) have all now been decommissioned. The oldest of those ships, Freedom, had been in service for just 13 years.

The Navy is now moving to retire even more LCSs from both subclasses in the coming years.The Navy's decision to acquire the Constellation class frigates has been seen as a major rebuke of the LCS program and its persistent failure to live up to expectations. As already noted, using an established in-production parent design, a core requirement of what was originally known as the FFG(X) program, was supposed to help limit cost growth and other technical and schedule risks.For its part, in the face of increasing criticism of the progress, or lack thereof, in the development and construction of the Constellation class frigates even before the release of the GAO's new report, the Navy has largely placed the blame on workforce issues at the shipbuilder. There has been talk about bringing in a second shipyard to help with the production of the Constellations."In the case of the [Constellation class] frigate, quite frankly, it's a... recruiting and retention problem in Wisconsin," Secretary of the Navy Carlos Del Toro told members of the Senate Armed Services Committee at a hearing earlier this month.However, Mississippi Senator Roger Wicker, the ranking Republican on the Committee, had already disputed this in his opening remarks at that same hearing."

The Constellation class frigate will be three years late and will take nearly 10 years to deliver the lead ship. This is largely because the Navy cannot keep its requirements steady. Almost 70 percent of the requirements have changed since the Navy signed a contract," Wicker said. "So the outcome that we see today is no surprise. This is not an example of the industry underperforming. This is senior officials unable to manage a program. This is acquisition malpractice and a terrible waste of time and resources."Wicker's comments are well in line with what the GAO has now reported.How and when the Navy, together with Fincantieri Marinette Marine, will be able to finally stabilize the Constellation class' weight and other design elements, and whether the ship's top speed takes a hit as a result, very much remains to be seen.https://twz.com/sea/navys-new-constellation-class-frigate-is-a-mess…




8:28 AM · May 31, 2024
·
And it’s been cancelled so no longer relevant
 
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SSN 799 USS Idaho now close to delivery to the Navy
 

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