Yes this is more or less what I meant when I said instead of restricting the movement of such officials altogether, provide them with an incentive to stay within the country. From what you have explained above, it's a trade off, but at least it's an informed one and also provides adequate QoL.
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Yes this is more or less what I meant when I said instead of restricting the movement of such officials altogether, provide them with an incentive to stay within the country. From what you have explained above, it's a trade off, but at least it's an informed one and also provides adequate QoL.
Well I am not sure whether intentionally or unintentionally but you have mentioned what explains the core of the problem in Pakistan i.e. Acceptable Behavior.
I'm not going to go into details on ISSB and the limitations it has. I'll just mention instead how when slowly overtime you get enough bad apples in any institution the "the implicit acceptable set of behaviors change" - here again, not an excuse, just an explanation of the mechanism. These bad apples come from our society, and one can make the argument that the filters in place should have not let them sieve through, and that is exactly what that article from Gen Karamat mentions.
As to the habits from 50 years ago - I hope you do realize that it is the most difficult thing to change and to this day despite our deeper understanding of human cognition, behavior, and personality, there is not a single therapy that can achieve that - we are not talking about simple habits here like smoking but habits that surround two of the most primal human needs i.e. Achievement and Belonging. The failure of the institution lies in not weeding out the bad apples timely, while the failure of the society at large lies in the degradation of the social and moral fabric to begin with. Children learn to lie at home, cave into authority at school, and suppress their values to fit in with the social group at all stages - that is what we have learnt over decades of psycho-social literature - all of that social learning cannot be undone by joining an institute where the majority of population is already the ones who display these "acceptable behaviors".
So yes, the blame lies on both because an institution, whichever it may be, is only a subset of the society at large.
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omegalamba7xl9
Registered Member
Let's call BUZDAAR the Wasim Akram plus to save the Nation...
I'm sure Imran Khan found the struggles and sacrifices of BUZDAAR for this country Worthy enough to grant him the Punjab CM ship....
BUZDAAR FOR PRESIDENT
If he is Wasim Akram plus then he ought to be the next president of Pakistan in Mr Khans world...
Pak-Warrior
Registered Member
Wow! So that's your defense for destroying entire system??
I mean patwaar club is beyond any reasoning. IK / PTI were far from perfect. They had so many flaws, IK made blunders thats why he is out of power (despite the nation overwhelmingly voted in his name). But atleast you had a system, where there's somewhat accountability for the powerful, somewhat freedom of press, somewhat justice system, there was a system of elections, there was a country with a working system.
Today there are self proclaimed kings and there are boot lickers. That's sums up the story of 5th largest country of the world (250 million people). Retired people are being promoted, a circus is going on. Justice system is pathetically destroyed. The media which used to shout on 1 rupee petrol increment or 1 rupee dollar increment won't even say a word on hundreds of rupees increments. Joblessness is at highest. Security situation is Worst in decades. and you patwaar club have audacity to defend your circus ?
Oscar
Moderator
Yes, and the 300 kanal agricultural land as well, and then there's Raya in Lahore as well where they get a beautiful 2 kanal fairway side house as well. However, unless I misunderstood @Michael post from earlier - in China they stay on government payroll? Like the cars and chauffeur are provided by the government, along with other QoL amenities?
Michael
VIP Member
The main source of income for government officials and military personnel is their salary. Generally, their salary is their only source of income.
However, within this group, income from sources such as writing fees and patent royalties is relatively common.
The law allows them to have some additional income, but it must be declared and registered. That is, every penny of income outside of their salary must be reported.
The state provides these individuals with various conveniences.
Depending on their job level and work requirements, they are provided with cars and dedicated drivers, housing, and medical care. Some individuals are also provided with personal assistants or caregivers. These expenses are paid by the state, and the individuals do not bear any related costs.
However, these benefits have many limitations. The law has very strict regulations regarding this. The class of car, the size and decoration of the office, the class of transportation used for travel, the level of medical care provided by hospitals, etc., are all related to their corresponding job levels.
When they leave their positions or retire, most of these job-related benefits will cease immediately, and the remaining personal benefits will be transferred to the public social welfare system. That is, they will be no different from the social welfare benefits of ordinary citizens.
China has two dedicated institutions responsible for supervising them:
The Disciplinary Inspection Commission. It is a direct subordinate institution of the CCP, specifically responsible for supervising CCP members.
The Supervisory Commission. It is a state administrative institution, specifically responsible for supervising non-CCP members.
In reality, the two institutions are a single entity (the same personnel work in the same place). They use different institutional names when investigating individuals of different identities.
Thanks
I have been studying the retirement package of high ranking Chinese officials (the star ranks) since yesterday after reading your post. The information I can find online is limited but so far I have found the following (please correct the information that is false):
- The pension package of the retired officials is b/w 80-90% of their last rank pay
- The medical expense is almost entirely covered by the state, and these officials get elite medical privileges, such as priority access to best state owned and private medical institutions
- They can retain the state provided housing, which is then further subsidized and includes various housing allowance
- They can retain the car and chauffeur, along with a few other clerical staff and orderlies
- Their children have elite quota based access to best universities in China such as Peking, and they don't have to compete for admission via Gaokao - besides there are targeted scholarships they can avail
- The high ranking officials are still considered "state cadres" post retirement and usually work as advisors in government or semi-goverment offices
- They remain a part of the CCP political entourage (but then again it's a one party state so there isn't an alternative option)
If the information above on the retirement package in China is correct then the difference b/w China and Pakistan is the manner in which "wealth" is acquired post retirement. In China, wealth acquisition is indirect i.e. state sponsored amenities for an improved QoL - whereas in Pakistan it is more direct i.e. on top of pension, medical care (CMH only), university quotas (not specific to high ranks but favors them) - the high ranking officials are also alotted a handsome amount of premium land assets and post retirement corporate employment opportunities.
This would in fact make the retirement package of Pakistani generals comparatively superior when it comes to wealth acquisition. The difference however is in the QoL - where China is superior - but that has to do with the economic success of China which then gets manifested in better quality medical care and education institutions.
Michael
VIP Member
Many of the points here contain misinterpretations.
1. Personal pensions are implemented according to the law. These regulations apply not only to senior officials but also to ordinary citizens.
2. Leaders at the provincial and ministerial levels and above enjoy full medical insurance coverage. For national security reasons, when receiving medical services in hospitals, they usually stay in dedicated VIP areas, and everything is kept confidential. Private medical institutions are not prevalent in China. Furthermore, these private medical institutions are prohibited from participating in this system.
In China, public medical institutions are absolutely superior to private medical institutions in all aspects, including medical facilities and doctor capabilities. There is a vast difference between the two. However, China has a huge population. Public medical institutions are usually overcrowded, and many well-known departments require long waiting times. If you try to see a top-tier, renowned doctor, you may have to wait for months or even years.
Private medical institutions have very limited medical capabilities, but their service attitude is excellent, and there is generally no need to wait in line. They often collaborate with many foreign hospitals, directly inviting foreign doctors to China or arranging for Chinese patients to go to foreign hospitals. They are usually more like intermediary and service agencies than medical institutions.
For high-ranking officials, they can directly access VIP areas in public hospitals without waiting in line. This is their privilege. They have no need to go to private hospitals. If they want to go to a private hospital, they would need to go through very complicated approval procedures.
3. After retirement, senior leaders usually reside in dedicated residential areas. The ownership of these houses belongs to the state. However, they are allowed to purchase them with personal funds (at a very low price).
4. Only national-level leaders retain dedicated vehicles and drivers, as well as clerical staff and maintenance personnel after retirement. Provincial and ministerial-level cadres do not have these provisions after retirement. When they need to travel, they can request a vehicle and driver from a dedicated government agency (free of charge).
5. Their children do not have the right to enter top universities without taking entrance exams. However, the admission scores for all top universities in the Beijing area are very low. There are many primary and secondary schools in Beijing attended by the children of senior cadres. These schools have very strong teaching staff. Of course, these schools also have very comprehensive security measures to prevent anyone from attempting to kidnap the children of these senior cadres.
6. National-level leaders retain a certain status and political influence after retirement. Depending on their personal health, they may also participate in some political activities, but usually do not hold public office.
7. From the provincial and ministerial leadership level onwards, it means that they are lifelong servants of the state and forever lose their "freedom."
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Thanks
And yes I mentioned the retirement package for high ranking officials like the equivalent of our military chiefs and top generals, so the information I collected is true in case of top ranking officials, except for Gaokao.
Anyhow, I just want to clear up on the Gaokao - so the children of these high officials have to compete in the National College Entrance Examination (Gaokao)? The information I found mentioned that the children of these high ranking officials do not have to take Gaokao and their admissions are based on quotas and internal recommendations (meaning they might compete with other elite children but do not have to compete with ordinary citizens)
Michael
VIP Member
Chinese universities have several admission methods:
1. National College Entrance Examination (Gaokao) admission. This applies to the vast majority of people. Students admitted through this method receive a graduation certificate from the university upon completion of their studies. This degree is widely recognized.
2. Non-Gaokao admission. This applies to adult education. Students admitted through this method are separated from those admitted through the first method, and their teaching methods and graduation certificates are completely different. This type of degree is not widely recognized in China.
3. Special talents. Some individuals who have made special contributions to the country can be admitted directly to top universities without taking the entrance exam. For example, Olympic champions can be admitted to universities in this way after retirement.
4. Independent admissions. Many universities have a certain number of independent admission quotas. These are usually for arts, management, and economics disciplines. Some children of prominent figures can gain admission to university through this channel without taking the entrance exam. This is not an exclusive pathway for the children of high-ranking officials.
Children of high-ranking officials also need to take the Gaokao to enter top universities.
1. They themselves receive a good education.
2. The admission scores for Chinese universities vary across the country, and the admission scores in Beijing are usually lower than in other regions.
Therefore, it is not difficult for them to enter top universities through the Gaokao.
Currently, the human resources system in China generally places great importance on the "first degree" (i.e., the first university you attended after passing the national college entrance examination). They don't pay much attention to higher degrees obtained through other means.
===============================
Some top Chinese universities collaborate with foreign universities to establish international cooperation colleges. Some of these international cooperation colleges use the same recommendation-based admission model as foreign universities (without the Gaokao). These degrees are not widely recognized in China.
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