Pakistan-India Conflict 2025: News Updates and Discussion

Mighty_Dragon_Strike said:
Pak. didnt need to prove:

1. IAF shot its helo
2. Abhinandan broke instruction bec. of sudden comms 'failure'!

for a primary school kid, things need to be explained!
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The question was on su30... Not on others.

Same goes in 2025... Indian claims are nothing but face saving. However this time there are evidence of Indian jets getting crashed. However India. Will. Never tell world how many
 
Oscar said:
I dont think it was just the events of May but also the efforts of existing lobbying and overall events unfolding including US , EU and Middle east that led to Pakistan achieving more effective diplomatic results than India ever expected.
If the Indians were surprised in the air they were doubly surprised by the reception of the "Junta" as they term the current system by both the US and how their dollar didnt go all the way as hoped in Pakistan's traditional allies. Ironically, they were more take aback by China's open hands(based on China looking at an opportunity to break away India from the US) than anything.

They have an extensive arsenal which they can deploy which gives them enough freedom to establish a normal of sorts but they also know the much like any conflict, the script you write is NEVER the script that unfolds.

This goes both ways, they were never expecting the relative cake walk for them in 71 as it happened to be , they were expecting to prevail but with a lot more losses and efforts instead of how it unfolded.

But, and not to dither - I also have an account from someone who was part of the then equivalent to the NCA that I know but also cannot verify for any one - that the decision to "get rid of" East Pakistan was already made in the 70s.

So it comes back to the question of "stuff we hear and are pretty sure is accurate based on the individual we heard it from" but since we have no other way and that person cannot be asked to give testimony - it is what is public and no more.
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Agreed on all points raised, it's why I don't usually delve in unsubstantiated claims - as heard (as you have put it), could be first hand too (who knows) - your point stand here that what is verifiable/verified is what can't be argued against and what isn't verifiable/verified always have room for doubt.

Putting that behind, I do also agree that India couldn't achieve the new normal because of how diplomatic relations have unfolded since May. However, the diplomatic front is the second layer of discouragement here, the base layer still being Pakistan's military reply.

Apart from perhaps China, it can be argued that other nations (US and KSA) stand against Indian aggression because of the realization that Pakistan can't be pushed over easily anymore.

I might not be thinking this through but I'd like to explore how diplomacy would have unfolded had India not received the beating that it did, esp when it comes to The West and Bangladesh.
 
Oscar said:
There are things that I have heard as well - left not mentioned. There are things perhaps Indians have heard - after all their air chief is publicly claiming 7 PAF jets downed.
So it’s better to focus on what is verifiable as “true” versus what you or I think is true.
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Can't claim without shooting. Only place where an S400 missile was inside Pakistan for sure was Dinga, but if it was a plane no way we could have hidden it.
 
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Oscar said:
I dont think it was just the events of May but also the efforts of existing lobbying and overall events unfolding including US , EU and Middle east that led to Pakistan achieving more effective diplomatic results than India ever expected.
If the Indians were surprised in the air they were doubly surprised by the reception of the "Junta" as they term the current system by both the US and how their dollar didnt go all the way as hoped in Pakistan's traditional allies. Ironically, they were more take aback by China's open hands(based on China looking at an opportunity to break away India from the US) than anything.

They have an extensive arsenal which they can deploy which gives them enough freedom to establish a normal of sorts but they also know the much like any conflict, the script you write is NEVER the script that unfolds.

This goes both ways, they were never expecting the relative cake walk for them in 71 as it happened to be , they were expecting to prevail but with a lot more losses and efforts instead of how it unfolded.

But, and not to dither - I also have an account from someone who was part of the then equivalent to the NCA that I know but also cannot verify for any one - that the decision to "get rid of" East Pakistan was already made in the 70s.

So it comes back to the question of "stuff we hear and are pretty sure is accurate based on the individual we heard it from" but since we have no other way and that person cannot be asked to give testimony - it is what is public and no more.
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The number of high level delegations and dignitaries touring Pakistan, even if for MOU photoshoots seems to have gone way up since May 7th though........

Indonesia President last time came in 2018......Kyrgzstan President last came twenty years ago....point being, Pakistan is being seen a power.......a far cry from what the average railway track shitter Indian thinks that they are superpower and Pakistan is a minion.

Pravin Sawhney said it right, Pakistan gets its governance right, nothing can stop it.
 
Goku-Kun said:
yo! @safriz..it has bin some time you uploaded your last video on your youtube..
Recently you must have heard about the indian propoganda on Ababeel missile's so-called failed test as claimed by indians by sourcing this image and article as reference:
paank.org

Pakistan Navy Missile Strikes in Ormara and Awaran: Civilian Safety at Risk - Paank

paank.org paank.org
View attachment 164267
so I went on and try to counter this fake claim with this:
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View attachment 164270

But if you can counter it then do it because you are good at this stuff..
THANKS..
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Good job,
However the fairing is ejected in space , after the vehicle has passed through atmosphere, after the Kaman line , or 100 km.
Its much thinner compared to the rest of the Rocket, and falling to the earth from 100km altitude won't leave it as shiny and intact as the Indians are showing.
Anything that's falling from 100km altitude will face atmospheric re-entry friction and heat , will burn up.
If it does survive the inferno, it will hit the earth at substantial speed, and break up.
The picture posted by indians has no charring, no impact damage.
 
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Oscar said:
I dont think it was just the events of May but also the efforts of existing lobbying and overall events unfolding including US , EU and Middle east that led to Pakistan achieving more effective diplomatic results than India ever expected.
Click to expand...

The USA had already decided it's approach of strategic altruism was over.

The below article was an early signal, don't expect much from India

www.foreignaffairs.com

America’s Bad Bet on India

New Delhi won’t side with Washington against Beijing.
www.foreignaffairs.com www.foreignaffairs.com

In that sense Pakistan walked into an India sized diplomatic space, the events of may accelerated the perceptions further
 
@rafale

Pravin Sawhney said it right, Pakistan gets its governance right, nothing can stop it.

Given the last 50 years history (of both Pakistan and Pravinbhai) quite unlikely, mercifully.

Regards
 
gamaji said:
Just wondering what qualification was the basis for the title given to you on this forum?
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My title is the least of your concerns and I didnt snatch it like your so called field marshal did through blackmailing and armtwisting. I don't waste my time arguing with stereotypes anyway.
 
Areesh said:
As per indians Taliban have done something which even IAF couldn't do

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On 7th December Taliban shot down two PAF jets as per indians

On 8th December two PAF jets collided with each other and crashed as per indians

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The way bharatis are destroying PAF aircraft, I think by this weekend there won't be any PAF left
 
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