PTI News, Updates and Discussion

Do you think PTI has a future without Imran Khan?

  • Yes

    Votes: 22 19.6%
  • No

    Votes: 80 71.4%
  • Only if senior leadership is released

    Votes: 10 8.9%

  • Total voters
    112
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I give him this much: Well 'endowed' in fooling Pakistanis. He could take the biggest 'U-Turns' like turning on a dime and his followers would ignore that. You know, how some of them in this thread have twisted Imran blaming 'America' for his ouster to some 'poles' in America because now Imran needs America's support to come back to power. But all that would be somewhat acceptable because politicians lie all over the world. But when someone carries a Tasbeeh (Prayer Beads) and recites his every speech with Quranic verses and makes claims about 'Riyasat e Medina', at least some 'integrity' is not too much to ask for.
Those of us burned by General Zia's 'Islam' know such scoundrels immediately!

I know many people who used to lightly support Pmln or even PPP, all until Imran Khan jalsa in Lahore, suddenly the next day they were screaming PTI and Azadi. The older generation and their families have strong influence in PPP and Pmln so those who were leftover found hope in PTI, a party for middle and lower class, talking about helping poor, jobs, inqalaab etc. Today if people leave where can they go? All these other issues noone really understands, majority of Pakistan is uneducated and leaders just play everyone with big slogans and promises.
 
No, I think he suspected an Establishment plan of eventually replacing him as head of PTI anyway by Mr Asad Umar or Mr Lota Shah Mahmood Qureshi, or any of the other lotas in the party.

His imprisonment and incommunicado status is unwittingly creating space for new leadership in PTI to emerge. His sisters have taken up the mantle.

Fortunately for Mr IK, Asad Umar proved another Shaukat Aziz, a technocrat who flopped at politics and Mr Shah Mahmood Qureshi seems to have gone native :D

Shah Mahmood Qureshi spent alot for time in jail for Imran Khan and Pti, at the moment hes in hospital. SMQ is proper politician, shame his career been harmed.
 
And expect this process to take several DECADES at least. There are no shortcuts to this process, like it or not.
Perhaps we are also assuming the process is guaranteed.
That is not the case.
In addition it is also not guaranteed that there is one process happening either.

I will bring it back to the PTI and the situation faced.

If you think of the whole "bell curve" distribution of choice, on how to control people to make that come from fear or hatred rather than a neutral emotion you have to either have a system. Pakistan’s political‑military system has struggled to stabilize partly because it never consolidated either a clearly monarchic hierarchy(this can be a dictator) or a consistently functioning electoral‑democratic game, while its ideological “drivers” (Islam, Islamic nationalism and shifting economic labels) have been used instrumentally on "whims" rather than as coherent rule‑sets for collective choice.

The result is a repeated reset of the “game” so that citizens, parties, and the military are never playing the same stable Prisoner’s‑Dilemma‑style interaction long enough to build trust, norms, or predictable incentives.

This is not a country ruined by a single villain but is a stage where every major actor learned the same bad script. As I repeatedly point out - the generals did not descend from another planet; they rose out of a society taught from birth that only men in uniform can save the nation from its enemies, internal and external. Politicians did not simply “fail”; they were trained in a politics where the shortest route to power was not convincing citizens, but convincing the referee in Rawalpindi.

So now if we go further back to creation of Pakistan then it began less as a settled social contract and more as an argument(after all it was led by a barrister- nay, THE BARRISTER) carried out by other means: Who are “we”? Muslims of South Asia? A garrison against India? A laboratory for Islamic democracy? Because the birth question was never closed, every regime could reopen it and claim to be the “true” Pakistan. When the founding story is an open wound instead of a healed scar, power does not rotate; it ricochets and creates a congenital allergy to institutions, born from Jinnah's hurried dominion sketch that fused mullah fervor, Punjabi heartland muscle, and Bengali irrelevance into a state too brittle to bend.

In a stablish system you have religion, patriotism, socialism, capitalism playing a combined musical chairs and ring around the roses which in the mind of citizens become trade offs. In Pakistan, they became costumes. A uniform could put on “Islamic order” one decade, “enlightened moderation” the next; a party could be socialist at the rally and patronage‑capitalist in office - think of how the whole "Riyasat e Medina" rhetoric conflicts with IK's own allies and even some "good" economic capitalist decisions he enabled for startups. When words point everywhere at once, people stop using them as guides and start reading them only as signals of which faction currently owns the microphone.

Imagine a Prisoner’s Dilemma where the players are told, every few years, that this round is the last chance to save the nation. In that atmosphere, no one has an incentive to build habits, only to survive the emergency. The military uses the emergency to step in; civilians use it to invite the military in against their rivals; citizens use it to tolerate each extra‑constitutional “reset” on the promise that this, finally, will fix things. The game never matures; it only repeats.

So right now - The military's got the script: "We're the adults saving you from chaos." PTI's got theirs: "We're the pure ones fighting the deep state." Pashtuns in KP mutter off-script: "What about our dead kids on your forever war?" And the classes? Elites sip tea while rewriting the rules; middle class tweets fury from air-conditioned grandparent houses or flats; poor folks dodge bullets hoping for a bribe or a bailout. Nobody's learning the blocking because the everyone is waiting for the song of the game to end and the schoolteacher(history) keeps yelling "Everybody Stop, Reset!".

Pakistan's stuck in this loop and is not coming out of it, because just as always Military's got PTI cornered: Imran Khan's in jail calling the army chief names, and now PML-N, PPP, everyone’s chanting "back the forces" like their noses arent brown enough. PTI's yelling from Khyber Pakhtunkhwa rallies, but it's all hot air, middle-class uncles on Twitter raging while sipping chai, and the poor? They grab the biryani plates from dynasties and keep quiet.

Pashtun thing's bubbling in KP, families fed up with TTP blasts and failed ops, but it'll fizzle as "provincial drama" while PTI milks it for votes. Elites in their air-conditioned SUVs rewrite rules for themselves, middle class dreams of clean governance but pays EMIs first, poor switch sides for the next roti kapra makaan promise. No one's teaming up because why risk it when the big boys hold the bat - why risk it is the theme of the 80% here.

We are who we are: a nation eloquent in complaint, impotent in cure, watching its youth flee to Dubai or Germany or "anywhere but here" while generals toast "azadi" over another botched budget.

Military blinks first ONLY if classes align against them (middle + poor + Pashtun fury). PTI wins if they co-opt Pashtuns without scaring elites into total war. Nobody's mind even can think of "share the stage," so expect more ad-libs, blackouts, and the audience (Pakistanis) wondering when intermission ends.

The rest of the debate on cultism or not cultism is plain humanity - You cannot expect people to change sides because like most of humanity, once you pick a narrative or stand you find whatever you can to defend that stand especially if your body is in fight or flight mode all the time. Pakistan would probably rank in the top ten for out of control parasympathetic systems.
 
I agree, IK was the fool. And he has paid the price for being such a fool. End of story.
You will see so many excuses made for Imran Khan: The expat fugitive journalists destroying Imran, his sisters' interviews on Indian media, his son on Afghan media, his Witch Wife destroying him with bad advice.... lots and lots of excuses deflecting the blames from poor little boy Imran.
Shah Mahmood Qureshi spent alot for time in jail for Imran Khan and Pti, at the moment hes in hospital. SMQ is proper politician, shame his career been harmed.
Imran did have the turncoats around him and I don't blame him for that. But the seasoned politicians like SMQ, Sh. Rasheed, Ch. Pervez Elahi and many others advised Imran against making the decisions which Imran made in the fateful 6 months leading to the NCM vote in April 2022 and beyond.
Everything wrong with Imran points toward Arrogance and Stupidity. I have said it many times and I will not sugar coat those adjectives.
 
are you struggling with comprehension? I asked you to speak normally and present counterarguments rather than behaving childishly each time.



are you really that naive that I need to explain to you like a 5 year old why elite capture is destructive? Would you be "ok" if your father was abused by a patwari? Would you be "ok" if your brother was killed in a fake encounter just because the other party had more money to bribe the police? Would you be "ok"' if your mother needed a hospital bed but it was handed instead to a corrupt sifarshi officer? Would you be "ok"' if your child was run over by a spoiled brat or a drunkard and you were forced to forgive them because of their privilege?

If you still don’t understand then I can break it down for you like you’re two years old.
He is gaslighting
 
@VCheng : No 'Shahadat'?? (Martyrdom). Has a 'genocide' of hundreds of people just happened with blood washed off the roads, bodies secretly buried, and witnesses imprisoned.
BTW, everyone please note: For an 'Anti dynastic' politician, it is Imran's sisters, his wife, and sons in the forefront. But, hey, it all comes from or stays in 'the same pot', as they say.

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PTI is a new party and has become a force in politics last 10 years only , with its leader alive and engaged, so why would Imran Khan groom successors at this stage ? You have to establish your party in the first place.

You can make these kind of charges against people like Mullah Fazlur Rahman who has been head honcho of his party since 1995.
PTI being “new” is not an excuse for zero succession planning. New parties that become national forces mature fastest when they build institutions early. PTI had 12 years in power positions across KPK, the centre, Punjab and GB. That is more than enough time to build a bench of leaders, district structures and internal elections. Instead, IK dissolved every internal election, sidelined anyone with an independent mind, and kept all decision making in a tight personal circle. That is a leadership choice, not a party age issue.

And comparing PTI to JUI-F proves the point, not the opposite. JUI-F survives because it has a madrassa network, ideology based cadres and institutional continuity. PTI has none. It is built on one personality, one narrative and one emotional wave. When a party is that centralised by design, it collapses the moment the centre is removed.

If PTI had been structured like a serious political organisation, it would already have visible second tier leadership. The fact that no one exists except IK confirms the argument: the weakness is internal, not because the party is “too new”.
 
Asad Umar screwed up at Engro as well - deep down most educated PTI supporters knew that but we all suppoo because we saw a potential to get a voice instead of the establishment (faujis, feudals , seths etc) - hail mary if you will.

His sisters can be the social face but they cannot lead an effective party. The dilemma right now is you do want the PTI to survive so it acts as a counterbalance to the PTM or more extreme narratives but have the problem of having IK come back to containers and pretty much disrupting everything.

And while that from a purely “moral” perspective sounds fine the issue is those in charge are themselves numbnuts who don’t know how to handle the situation they created themselves and the net damage to Pakistan from both an economic , social and political and even state perspective will be much worse.

The choice is simple - let this rotten system keep “going” so there is a chance to recalibrate and find another angle to start struggle for justice in the hopes a saner leader emerges who is both independent of establishment and has following among masses(unlikely given education levels and so on) or let this chaos unfold potentially to a worst case scenario of another breakup west of Attock.

P.s This choice is however for certain types of PTI moderates and middle class undecided majority. The other types of cultists on all sides of the aisle have their own choice to make and it will be the sum of these choices including the ones made by those in power which will determine Pakistan’s future - as it always has.
You’ve written a long paragraph, but all you’ve done is expose the confusion that exists among the so-called educated moderates. You admit the establishment controls everything. You admit the system is rotten. You admit there is no alternative leader with mass support. You admit PTI is the only counterbalance to extremism. You admit the people in power have no idea what they’re doing. And somehow after saying all this, your conclusion is to keep the same rotten system running and hope that one day a saner leader will appear out of nowhere. That isn’t analysis; it’s wishful thinking disguised as intellect.

Let’s focus on facts rather than fantasies. You are dreaming that this corrupt mafia will somehow produce an honest man for Pakistan, while the only honest leader this nation already had has been thrown into prison by the very same mafia. Instead of questioning the criminals who run the system, you keep criticising the man they are desperate to silence. You know very well where the public stands. Ninety percent of Pakistanis support Imran Khan, yet you choose to align yourself with the confused ten percent and call that political wisdom.

One man built three cancer hospitals, two universities, wanted to build welfare system based on state of Medina, a unified curriculum, exposed an entire corrupt elite, and broke the fear barrier that controlled this country for decades. He didn’t come from the army, a political dynasty, or a business mafia, yet he still brought millions of people into political awareness.

People like you knew all of this when you supported PTI, but now that you’ve stepped away, suddenly everything looks negative. In today’s Pakistan, the reality is simple: either you stand for the people’s mandate or you stand with the system that has failed for seventy-six years. There is no third intellectual position to hide behind.

What you call chaos, the people of Pakistan call accountability. What you call container politics, they call their voice. What you call incompetence among those in charge is exactly why Pakistan collapsed again. You are free to disagree with Imran Khan or criticise PTI, but what you cannot do is pretend that this broken system will miraculously produce a better leader if we keep tolerating it. That illusion ended a long time ago.
 
Perhaps we are also assuming the process is guaranteed.
That is not the case.
In addition it is also not guaranteed that there is one process happening either.

I will bring it back to the PTI and the situation faced.

If you think of the whole "bell curve" distribution of choice, on how to control people to make that come from fear or hatred rather than a neutral emotion you have to either have a system. Pakistan’s political‑military system has struggled to stabilize partly because it never consolidated either a clearly monarchic hierarchy(this can be a dictator) or a consistently functioning electoral‑democratic game, while its ideological “drivers” (Islam, Islamic nationalism and shifting economic labels) have been used instrumentally on "whims" rather than as coherent rule‑sets for collective choice.

The result is a repeated reset of the “game” so that citizens, parties, and the military are never playing the same stable Prisoner’s‑Dilemma‑style interaction long enough to build trust, norms, or predictable incentives.

This is not a country ruined by a single villain but is a stage where every major actor learned the same bad script. As I repeatedly point out - the generals did not descend from another planet; they rose out of a society taught from birth that only men in uniform can save the nation from its enemies, internal and external. Politicians did not simply “fail”; they were trained in a politics where the shortest route to power was not convincing citizens, but convincing the referee in Rawalpindi.

So now if we go further back to creation of Pakistan then it began less as a settled social contract and more as an argument(after all it was led by a barrister- nay, THE BARRISTER) carried out by other means: Who are “we”? Muslims of South Asia? A garrison against India? A laboratory for Islamic democracy? Because the birth question was never closed, every regime could reopen it and claim to be the “true” Pakistan. When the founding story is an open wound instead of a healed scar, power does not rotate; it ricochets and creates a congenital allergy to institutions, born from Jinnah's hurried dominion sketch that fused mullah fervor, Punjabi heartland muscle, and Bengali irrelevance into a state too brittle to bend.

In a stablish system you have religion, patriotism, socialism, capitalism playing a combined musical chairs and ring around the roses which in the mind of citizens become trade offs. In Pakistan, they became costumes. A uniform could put on “Islamic order” one decade, “enlightened moderation” the next; a party could be socialist at the rally and patronage‑capitalist in office - think of how the whole "Riyasat e Medina" rhetoric conflicts with IK's own allies and even some "good" economic capitalist decisions he enabled for startups. When words point everywhere at once, people stop using them as guides and start reading them only as signals of which faction currently owns the microphone.

Imagine a Prisoner’s Dilemma where the players are told, every few years, that this round is the last chance to save the nation. In that atmosphere, no one has an incentive to build habits, only to survive the emergency. The military uses the emergency to step in; civilians use it to invite the military in against their rivals; citizens use it to tolerate each extra‑constitutional “reset” on the promise that this, finally, will fix things. The game never matures; it only repeats.

So right now - The military's got the script: "We're the adults saving you from chaos." PTI's got theirs: "We're the pure ones fighting the deep state." Pashtuns in KP mutter off-script: "What about our dead kids on your forever war?" And the classes? Elites sip tea while rewriting the rules; middle class tweets fury from air-conditioned grandparent houses or flats; poor folks dodge bullets hoping for a bribe or a bailout. Nobody's learning the blocking because the everyone is waiting for the song of the game to end and the schoolteacher(history) keeps yelling "Everybody Stop, Reset!".

Pakistan's stuck in this loop and is not coming out of it, because just as always Military's got PTI cornered: Imran Khan's in jail calling the army chief names, and now PML-N, PPP, everyone’s chanting "back the forces" like their noses arent brown enough. PTI's yelling from Khyber Pakhtunkhwa rallies, but it's all hot air, middle-class uncles on Twitter raging while sipping chai, and the poor? They grab the biryani plates from dynasties and keep quiet.

Pashtun thing's bubbling in KP, families fed up with TTP blasts and failed ops, but it'll fizzle as "provincial drama" while PTI milks it for votes. Elites in their air-conditioned SUVs rewrite rules for themselves, middle class dreams of clean governance but pays EMIs first, poor switch sides for the next roti kapra makaan promise. No one's teaming up because why risk it when the big boys hold the bat - why risk it is the theme of the 80% here.

We are who we are: a nation eloquent in complaint, impotent in cure, watching its youth flee to Dubai or Germany or "anywhere but here" while generals toast "azadi" over another botched budget.

Military blinks first ONLY if classes align against them (middle + poor + Pashtun fury). PTI wins if they co-opt Pashtuns without scaring elites into total war. Nobody's mind even can think of "share the stage," so expect more ad-libs, blackouts, and the audience (Pakistanis) wondering when intermission ends.

The rest of the debate on cultism or not cultism is plain humanity - You cannot expect people to change sides because like most of humanity, once you pick a narrative or stand you find whatever you can to defend that stand especially if your body is in fight or flight mode all the time. Pakistan would probably rank in the top ten for out of control parasympathetic systems.
You’re over-intellectualising a very simple truth.
Pakistan’s crisis is not because systems didn’t consolidate it’s because one unaccountable institution never allowed any system to consolidate in the first place.

PTI proved that when you actually let people vote freely even without an election symbol, without a party, with the leader in jail the public still delivers a two-third majority.
That alone destroys your entire bell-curve theory of fear based control.
People chose despite fear, despite violence, despite censorship.
That's not cultism that's national consensus.

You say classes must align for the military to blink…
Well, they already did

middle class voted PTI

poor voted PTI

Pashtuns voted PTI
And even then, the system STILL couldn’t manage them on 17 seats, which shows who is actually in fight-or-flight mode and it’s not the public.


Pakistan’s out of control parasympathetic system isn’t a natural condition it’s manufactured by those who panic every time civilians stand up.
Imran Khan broke that fear for the first time since 1971, and that is why the entire machine collapsed on top of him.

So no this isn’t a philosophical crisis.
This is a simple story:
A nation finally chose, and the gatekeepers refused to accept the choice.
 
Whatabouting
that's exactly what you are doing , mentioning unrelated incidents when asked for evidence on a claim you made .

gaslighting
the comment you said that to is the one that is doing the gaslighting

you made a fake claim to protect your favorite corrupt politician and when asked for evidence your response is " HeS GaSlighTINg "
 
In addition, his sons were involved in "other" types of politics as well.
Sorry bro, pls allow me to disagree. What they were indulging in wouldn't be called "other types of politics", by a long shot. They were following their father's footstep in a much more pathetic / disgusting manner, and behaving like desi cosa nostra, while presenting an image of Che.
 
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