PAF F-16 | Discussions

Blain2 said:
$600M to upgrade the crucial comms/self-protection capabilities of a $3B (nominal) fleet (not including weapons etc.) is well worth it.

Ghareeb Pakistan funding this on its own is better than asking for money from the Americans for it.
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I agree its better to fund the defense projects, but do we really needed this more than half of billion worth of upgrades? and how is this different than the previous package which was roughly 400ish million dollar approved by USA? if we combined both deals that worth more than a 1 Billion dollars, for we not even getting V kits or any hope to get more older/used air frames, we are flying baba Adam ke Zamane ke Mirages and Qaim Ali Shah ke Zamane ke F-7PG's which need replacement, so why spending so much money over F-16's and not replace with newer planes such as J-10CE? which prove its worth in May conflict?
 
www.airforce-technology.com

US okays $450m sale of F-16 fleet sustainment support to Pakistan

The US Defense Security Cooperation Agency (DSCA) has notified Congress of a potential foreign military sale (FMS) for F-16 fleet sustainment support to Pakistan.
www.airforce-technology.com www.airforce-technology.com
450 Mln dollars
686 mln dollars
@Blain2 @Oscar that's what i am talking about 2 sustainment and upgrade package for same fighter jets, for Gareeb AF like Pakistan do we really come across a Karoon ka Khazana where we can spare 1.3 Billion on just sustainment and upgrades? something doesn't add up to me.
 

Inside the $686 Million Upgrade Architecture​

At the technological core of the US$686 million package is the integration of the Link-16 tactical datalink, a secure, jam-resistant, high-capacity network that allows real-time exchange of targeting, sensor, and command-and-control data across air, land, and maritime domains.

The deal includes 92 Link-16 terminals, enabling Pakistan’s F-16s to operate seamlessly with ground-based command centres, airborne early warning aircraft, and allied platforms while meeting modern US cryptographic and cybersecurity standards.

In practical terms, Link-16 integration significantly compresses decision-making timelines in contested airspace, enhancing situational awareness, deconfliction, and cooperative engagement capabilities that are increasingly decisive in high-tempo aerial operations.


Beyond datalinks, the package encompasses extensive avionics modernisation, including modifications to the Operational Flight Program (OFP)—the digital core governing radar behaviour, weapons integration, and sensor fusion across the aircraft.

Upgrades to Identification Friend or Foe (IFF) systems and associated cryptographic appliques further strengthen secure combat identification protocols, a critical requirement in congested airspace where misidentification risks escalate rapidly during crises.

Mission-planning systems, software support, test equipment, flight simulators, spare parts, and technical documentation constitute the majority of the non-Major Defense Equipment (non-MDE) component, collectively valued at approximately US$649 million.

source : DSA
 
Ibbi32 said:
Why are people upset about this deal lol. This year alone weve done more for f-16 fleet than last decade
Got 400 mln in aid approved to sustain f-16 fleet
Got included in aim-120C deal which even if doesnt result in purchase of c8/D3 we will still have upgraded our older stock of missiles
Got a 700mln deal through congress that includes massive service life improvement overhauls to last another 20 years, new software and other integrations along with updated iff
This is the final nail in the coffin of the deriders of f-16s who said they’ll soon be retired in favour of j10s and other platforms. The shaheen falcon is alive and well
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As I say, I am not into military hardware much. But I do pay attention to credible 'experts' out there for their views and also pay particular attention to what the adversary is saying. And it seems obvious that Indians are really worried about this sale. Anyway, here is Pakistan's retired Air Force official Khalid Chisti. He is a measured person and speaks carefully and per him, this upgrade is very good for Pakistan.

In this video he is saying that during the May 7, 2025 encounter with India, Pakistan's F-16s were put into action but they were not as effective due to the limited missile range. This upgrade offered by the Americans helps with that deficiency. Imagine 70+ F-16s in Pakistan's fleet becoming significantly more lethal against India with a mere expenditure of less than $700 million?!!
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Blain2 said:
Pakistan having a strong conventional deterrence, specially with its American systems, furthers American interests in maintaining stability in South Asia. Pakistan has a weighty argument that erosion of our conventional capability increases the risks of a nuclear conflagration. Americans understand that as it is no blackmail. They saw the escalation rungs being traversed rapidly by both sides in May.
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Right.
And Trump repeating 'millions would have died' when referring to the India-Pakistan May 2025 conflict and reference to nuclear dust over 'Los Angeles'. Mostly hyperbole but not entirely out of question.
Pakistan has its own importance in American eyes. Always had been--way before even the nukes. Americans know that Pakistan is not a threat to American. Never been. So even in the lows like the Pressler Amendment (1990/91) or during the Trump first term, never too harsh measures applied against Pakistan. Indians hate that but they can't do anything about it.
 
Starlord said:
i am talking about 2 sustainment and upgrade package for same fighter jets, for Gareeb AF like Pakistan do we really come across a Karoon ka Khazana where we can spare 1.3 Billion on just sustainment and upgrades? something doesn't add up to me.
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70+ F-16s becoming peer fighters against India's Rafale for less than $700 million and that using a tried and tested fighter jet like F-16 is really a bargain. Plus it won't surprise me one bit if the recent bonhomie between Pakistan and Saudi Arabia won't help footing the bill.
America, Pakistan and Saudi Arabia are working very closely with each other after India's disastrous Operation Sindoor of May 2025.
 
The only thing that concerns here is the TIME all this will/may take. Pakistan and PAF should have all this upgrade ASAP because we don't know when the indian govt will start OP Tandoor 2,0 and our Vipers need to be ready before then.
If it drags on and takes forever, it will miss the mission....Remember now we have to deal with BVR, can the F16s do that with long range compared to J10C with PL15?

However, I'm more on the side of getting more JF17B3 and J10Cs as well as J35 from China. And obviously more PL-15 or latest PL missiles for our J10Cs.
 
Meengla said:
70+ F-16s becoming peer fighters against India's Rafale for less than $700 million and that using a tried and tested fighter jet like F-16 is really a bargain. Plus it won't surprise me one bit if the recent bonhomie between Pakistan and Saudi Arabia won't help footing the bill.
America, Pakistan and Saudi Arabia are working very closely with each other after India's disastrous Operation Sindoor of May 2025.
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Actually there was another contract of 450 mln which was approved not long ago, that was named as F-16's sustainment package, and now this approval of 686mln, F-16's are capable fighters specially in S.Asia against India but in May we have not heard/see any F-16's taking any aggressive role, in fact even in 2019's we initially deny using F-16's to shoot down Indian Mig, so the point is why spend so much money on a Air craft which we are hesitant to use against India, I mean Afghanistan is our 2nd enemy which has no fighter jets and we can bomb them using drones which operational cost is a lot cheaper to F-16's, also also if you read the details of the of upgrade it mostly shows software updates, new link-16's data links, IFF and situation awareness systems which are indeed important but are definitely no game changers, we are not getting no new AAM, or Radar upgrades or new targeting pods etc. I am just saying hope that spending 1.3ish bln dollars for what we are getting worth it and now some PAF babus trying to keep F-16's alive for their own bias and kick backs.
 
PK781 said:
The only thing that concerns here is the TIME all this will/may take. Pakistan and PAF should have all this upgrade ASAP because we don't know when the indian govt will start OP Tandoor 2,0 and our Vipers need to be ready before then.
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Very humbly: PAF is already 10-15 years ahead of India. Even General Bakshi--of all people--had to acknowledge that India has 'only four more squadrons' vs Pakistan. And given India's much larger border and concerns with China, Indians are in a pickle until they get something like SU-57 in significant quantities urgently. That's the essence of what I have come to understood from Indian and Pakistani blogs/videos.

Starlord said:
Actually there was another contract of 450 mln which was approved not long ago, that was named as F-16's sustainment package, and now this approval of 686mln, F-16's are capable fighters specially in S.Asia against India but in May we have not heard/see any F-16's taking any aggressive role, in fact even in 2019's we initially deny using F-16's to shoot down Indian Mig, so the point is why spend so much money on a Air craft which we are hesitant to use against India
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Even if $1.2 billion, that's a small sum to invest to bring 70+ Rafale quality aircrafts via the F-16. Please watch the Khalid Chisti video I posted above: Pakistan has been wanting this kind of upgrade since 2020/21 but only now is getting its wish.
As to the bolded part: It is another 'urban myth' that Pakistan won't use F-16s against India. Everyone knows that F-16s are too sophisticated to be used against 'the terrorists'.
 
ghazi52 said:
www.congress.gov

Congressional Record

www.congress.gov

View attachment 164795

View attachment 164796

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So the devil is in the details - this release has also been written in a way that allows passage through congress with a lot of systems and work put in additional work and repair/parts. There are many cases where you do write SoW documents emphasizing something else when the main focus is something else
 
Earlier this year, the U.S. annnounced that Pakistan was on the list of countries approved for AIM-120D missiles. A certain degree of ambiguity was carefully maintained because, as expected, diplomatic noises got too loud. Yet, this new confirmed package has to be seen in concert with the earlier AIM 120D news.

The 700M package contains many things, but chief among them are new datalink terminals and significant encryption system upgrades. You can’t use the newest AMRAAM missiles without new encryption, new key loaders and a refreshed software baseline. So when we see NSA grade crypto, new IFF and Link 16 included, the logical conclusion is that the missiles are either already in the plan or not far behind. Nobody is going to spell that out in a press release, because the moment you say “AIM 120D for Pakistan” you trigger a pointless political food fight in DC and Delhi. Easier to talk about “avionics and support” and move on.

--------
Good read for the ignorants who thinks this upgrade is nothing substantial. Go thru Amir's entire tweet on the news.
 
Meengla said:
Very humbly: PAF is already 10-15 years ahead of India. Even General Bakshi--of all people--had to acknowledge that India has 'only four more squadrons' vs Pakistan. And given India's much larger border and concerns with China, Indians are in a pickle until they get something like SU-57 in significant quantities urgently. That's the essence of what I have come to understood from Indian and Pakistani blogs/videos.


Even if $1.2 billion, that's a small sum to invest to bring 70+ Rafale quality aircrafts via the F-16. Please watch the Khalid Chisti video I posted above: Pakistan has been wanting this kind of upgrade since 2020/21 but only now is getting its wish.
As to the bolded part: It is another 'urban myth' that Pakistan won't use F-16s against India. Everyone knows that F-16s are too sophisticated to be used against 'the terrorists'.
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In 2024, Russia produced only 7 SU-57s. In 2025, with an increase in production lines, the capacity is expected to reach 18 units. Algeria has already ordered 36 aircraft, and both the Russian Air Force and Algeria need new planes. If India purchases the production line, the five years will not be enough for installation, production, training, and equipping. Unless the United States sells F-35s to India, the Pakistan Air Force will have the advantage within five years. Since the F-35 entered service, over a dozen have already crashed—if this happens to India, it’s unimaginable.
 
imadul said:
TAI already upgraded PAF F-16A/B Block 15 to near Block 50/52 standard.
Notably They got
AN/APG-66(V)2A Radar with 83 km, upto 150 KM range, not the more modern AN/APG-68(V)9 Radar with 110 km - 150 km plus?
And MLU structural upgrades.

In this, major upgrade include Link-16 Data Link, AN/PYQ-10C) Simple Key Loader (SKL) cryptographic modules to carry/install cryptographic materials,
AIFF, missile handling ground equipment.

$686 is a large sum for Pakistan, but looks a large sum will be consumed in labor, training.
So both older A/B 15 MLU, and new 18 Block 50/52 will be at par operationally.
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The TAI upgrade happened 16 years ago. The airframes are ready for another SLEP if we intend to keep them in the air. And it seems PAF has plans for them through 2040
 
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