PAF F-16 | Discussions

The best thing id suggest is avoid speculating too hard.

I think waiting and seeing what this is about is a better move. It needs to go through congress, alongside anything that may come further.

However, if we make fanfare and look into the statement now, theres a solid chance the eastern monkeys will pick up on it, arnab and co will throw fits on tv and there will be diplomatic protests lodged, then it all unravels.

All i will say is lets use some logic, does it make sense for sidhu to go to the white house for no reason? He was clearly there to lobby for something...what, we dont know.
 
The best thing id suggest is avoid speculating too hard.

I think waiting and seeing what this is about is a better move. It needs to go through congress, alongside anything that may come further.

However, if we make fanfare and look into the statement now, theres a solid chance the eastern monkeys will pick up on it, arnab and co will throw fits on tv and there will be diplomatic protests lodged, then it all unravels.

All i will say is lets use some logic, does it make sense for sidhu to go to the white house for no reason? He was clearly there to lobby for something...what, we dont know.

I think even the timing is to circumvent any political protest. By releasing the 30-day notification right when congress is scheduled to take their recess, the Trump administration has all but guaranteed this will sail though. Even without congressional recess, it would have been cleared as no republican will go against Trump.
 
I think this upgrade was much needed in the short term (next 5-10 years) and the package is consistent with our armed forces current doctrine of fighting an integrated defensive war close to our borders. Below are some of the implications I have been able to figure out after studying what all is included over the last two days (would appreciate the input of more informed members):

Effective and Efficient Rear Defense:

Link-16, upgraded IFF, improved EW and Cryptography, and the new OFP basically convert the F-16 fleet into an integrated rear defense formation increasing the envelope of shared awareness that will effectively cover much of Pakistan's airspace. It also makes the AIM-120C-5 more reliable and efficient. Subsequently, this increases the attrition penalty for any IAF intrusion (drone and aircraft strike packages) deeper into Pakistan’s airspace targeting rear strategic installations and AEWACS. This was a necessity to lower the operational burden on J-10Cs and JFT Block IIIs - providing them the freedom to continually operate on frontline air-denial missions without worrying much about any IAF breakthroughs. The overall operational effect here would be more aggressiveness from PAF on the frontline.

Effective Sea Denial:

The same upgrade package plus Harpoon, enables the PN and PAF integrated multi-domain operation over sea waters. PN’s ISR feeding the network through Link-16, and F-16s flying 150-250 km off the coast can now receive real-time targeting data and launch Harpoons from standoff distance of 120–200 km from IN surface assets. That alone forces the IN's surface assets to operate beyond Pakistan’s EEZ. The MiG-29K/R-77-1 wouldn't be a major threat now since at long range ISR reach and strike geometry would dominate the kill chain than range on A2A missiles. This, again, would increase the attrition penalty for any IN ambitions.

Note:
OFP is the stepping stone for AESA down the line and if it eventually arrives, the entire defense strengthens further. Not only it will push the shared awareness of the network to a near-continous coverage over Pakistan's air space but would also lead to the better integration of our land and shore based defenses and missile systems by providing more accurate target coordinates via Link-16 -> IADS -> land based missile launchers (BM, CM). F-16s with AESA is more potent than MPA/UAV in this scenario given that it's more of an A2A threat to IN's aircraft than MPA/UAV.

Note 2: Though it remains to be seen, but further if AIM-120C-8 ever materializes (more of a political question now than technical), it will further add the offensive-defensive role and reach to fleet.

IMO, the operational relevancy and the service-life extension even under the current upgrade package buys time without much capability vacuum to induct more J-10Cs and J-35s. The V-standard upgrade for the entire fleet would have costed $ Billions given that majority of our F-16 fleet is MLU. Perhaps, in another 5 years Pakistan may try for the V upgrade on the Block 52+ while phasing out the MLUs and A/B with Chinese/Turkish systems. Given the resource and time constraints, I think this upgrade was a much needed genuine operational force multiplier as it extracts the most potential out of our current air fleet.
 
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I think this upgrade was much needed in the short term (next 5-10 years) and the package is consistent with our armed forces current doctrine of fighting an integrated defensive war close to our borders. Below are some of the implications I have been able to figure out after studying what all is included over the last two days (would appreciate the input of more informed members):

Effective and Efficient Rear Defense:

Link-16, upgraded IFF, improved EW and Cryptography, and the new OFP basically convert the F-16 fleet into an integrated rear defense formation increasing the envelope of shared awareness that will effectively cover much of Pakistan's airspace. It also makes the AIM-120C-5 more reliable and efficient. Subsequently, this increases the attrition penalty for any IAF intrusion (drone and aircraft strike packages) deeper into Pakistan’s airspace targeting rear strategic installations and AEWACS. This was a necessity to lower the operational burden on J-10Cs and JFT Block IIIs - providing them the freedom to continually operate on frontline air-denial missions without worrying much about any IAF breakthroughs. The overall operational effect here would be more aggressiveness from PAF on the frontline.

Effective Sea Denial:

The same upgrade package plus Harpoon, enables the PN and PAF integrated multi-domain operation over sea waters. PN’s ISR feeding the network through Link-16, and F-16s flying 150-250 km off the coast can now receive real-time targeting data and launch Harpoons from standoff distance of 120–200 km from IN surface assets. That alone forces the IN's surface assets to operate beyond Pakistan’s EEZ. The MiG-29K/R-77-1 wouldn't be a major threat now since at long range ISR reach and strike geometry would dominate the kill chain than range on A2A missiles. This, again, would increase the attrition penalty for any IN ambitions.

Note:
OFP is the stepping stone for AESA down the line and if it eventually arrives, the entire defense strengthens further. Not only it will push the shared awareness of the network to a near-continous coverage over Pakistan's air space but would also lead to the better integration of our land and shore based defenses and missile systems by providing more accurate target coordinates via Link-16 -> IADS -> land based missile launchers (BM, CM). F-16s with AESA is more potent than MPA/UAV in this scenario given that it's more of an A2A threat to IN's aircraft than MPA/UAV.

Note 2: Though it remains to be seen, but further if AIM-120C-8 ever materializes (more of a political question now than technical), it will further add the offensive-defensive role and reach to fleet.

IMO, the operational relevancy and the service-life extension even under the current upgrade package buys time without much capability vacuum to induct more J-10Cs and J-35s. The V-standard upgrade for the entire fleet would have costed $ Billions given that majority of our F-16 fleet is MLU. Perhaps, in another 5 years Pakistan may try for the V upgrade on the Block 52+ while phasing out the MLUs and A/B with Chinese/Turkish systems. Given the resource and time constraints, I think this upgrade was a much needed genuine operational force multiplier as it extracts the most potential out of our current air fleet.

is it possible with these relevant upgrades above PAF fleet of Block 52+ and MLU can employ AIM-174B Gunslinger in cooperative engagement mode?
 
However, if we make fanfare and look into the statement now, theres a solid chance the eastern monkeys will pick up on it, arnab and co will throw fits on tv and there will be diplomatic protests lodged, then it all unravels.

Looking forward to seeing Indian channels throwing fits. Some already are, such as Palki at First Post. Plus would love to see General Bakshi breathing fire against America and Pakistan. LOL!
Seriously speaking, Indians don't have the clout yet to challenge President Trump over this or other sales. Indians are migrating to America in large numbers, are very visible in power circles of America now, trying to emulate the Israel-firsters but not quite there yet.
 
is it possible with these relevant upgrades above PAF fleet of Block 52+ and MLU can employ AIM-174B Gunslinger in cooperative engagement mode?

AFAIK it can't. The Link-16 is primarily a target data sharing network. It can't provide mid-course updates. The mid-course guidance comes from F-16's own FCC and is tied to fire-control-grade radars. I don't think Pakistan is getting the V-standard OFP, let alone the relevant radars.

For CEC as you're suggesting, it'll require V-standard FCC and OFP alongwith relevant radars linked together into a Networked Fire Control System, and that is just b/w the F-16s.

For true CEC involving AEWACS, aircraft, and warship, it'll have to be same network - so that would require replacing almost the entire set of current systems available on those assets.
 
The Amraams are likely going through component replacement, recalibration and so on to keep them as viable systems until the end of life for the viper.

It is probable but not guaranteed that there were software updates to improve guidance logic, resistance to jamming, datalink behavior, and flight profiles but not likely.

Based on the amount of the contract - it is even more unlikely that a hardware refresh was undertaken with new boards/processors.
 
I don't like the fact that PAF bases are nestled amongst such highly dense population centres, not only is that a security risk but also issues with bird strikes from all the garbage. Air bases should be as far away from population centres as possible.
 
Tears in these Indian channels' comments sections.
;)

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I don't like the fact that PAF bases are nestled amongst such highly dense population centres, not only is that a security risk but also issues with bird strikes from all the garbage. Air bases should be as far away from population centres as possible.

The additional problem is base defence due to not being able to deploy systems like CIWS gun properly on top.
 
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Tears in these Indian channels' comments sections.
;)

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i am so lucky these channels are blocked in Pakistan 😍 😍 😍
funniest comment by Indian i found once
Screenshot 2025-12-12 172601.png
this video was about Arabic numerals btw
 

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