JF-17 PFX program

[hasssanali8998]

"directed energy weapons

i mean radars/EA are directed energy weapons , so

 

[MirageV3ff]

I am trying to embarrass you or criticizes you. your post is without grasping the broader geopolitical context. Since May 2025, Pakistan’s trajectory has clearly shifted upward, the steady stream of foreign officials visiting the country speaks for itself. We haven’t seen this level of engagement in years.

As I’ve said many times, none of us has a magic wand to predict the future. Will Bahrain and Saudi Arabia support PFX project? We don’t know. All we can do is analyze the facts in front of us and draw reasonable conclusions. Will the PFX project ultimately succeed? Time will decide that. But right now, the level of discussion around it is significant. Several retired Air Force officers have even confirmed that PFX has a dedicated team and a project lead actively working on the design phase of it.

1. Air Commodore (Retd.) Khalid Chishti’s key message is:

PFX is real, structured, staffed, and already in the design phase but it is a long‑term, step‑by‑step program, not a quick jump to a 5th‑gen jet.

2. Air Chief Marshal Zaheer Ahmed Baber Sidhu

Venue: PAF events, interviews, PAC briefings
Statements:

• PFX is part of PAF’s “Next Generation Air Combat System (NGACS)” roadmap.
• Pakistan is pursuing two tracks:• PFX‑Alpha (JF‑17 evolution)
• PFX (new fighter) for the 2030s

• Emphasized indigenization, sovereignty, and reduced dependence on foreign suppliers.
• Confirmed that PFX is not a 5th‑gen stealth fighter, but a 4.5+ gen platform.

3. Air Vice Marshal (Retd.) Shahid Latif

Venue: TV interviews, defense panels
Statements:

• PFX is the logical continuation of the JF‑17 program.
• Pakistan aims to increase its design authority in the next fighter.
• Confirmed that PFX will be twin‑engine and larger than JF‑17.
• Stated that PFX is meant to replace F‑16s in the long term.

4. Air Commodore (Retd.) Kaiser Tufail

Venue: Articles, seminars, interviews
Statements:

• PFX is a 4.5‑generation fighter, not a stealth aircraft.
• The biggest bottleneck is engine selection.
• Pakistan must build industrial capability first, then pursue advanced fighters.
• PFX is meant to give PAF a heavier, long range platform.

5. Air Commodore (Retd.) Jamal Hussain

Venue: Defense commentary, think‑tank discussions
Statements:

• PFX is a multi‑phase program, not a single aircraft.
• PFX‑Alpha is the first experimental step.
• The twin engine PFX will require deep Chinese partnership.
• PFX is designed to complement, not replace, J‑10C and JF‑17.

6. PAC Kamra Leadership (Various Officials)

Venue: IDEAS 2024, PAC briefings
Statements:

• Confirmed the twin engine PFX concept displayed at IDEAS.
• Stated that PFX development is targeted for completion before 2030, with service entry in the 2030s.
• Emphasized local manufacturing, avionics development, and EW sovereignty.
• Confirmed that PFX‑Alpha (JF‑17 Block 4) is already in development.

7. PAF Spokespersons (Official Statements)

Venue: Media briefings
Statements:

• PFX is part of PAF’s future force structure.
• It will feature:• AESA radar
• Advanced EW
• Long‑range weapons
• Stealth shaping
• It is intended to be a 4.5‑generation fighter.


Do you want more ?

 

[hussain0216]

The reason PFX may be a reality or the military desperately wants PFX to succeed is simply without it we don't have a platform that we can call our own, which can support our desire to have our own BVRs, or air launched cruise missiles or SOWs to safeguard Pakistani security in the future and make it as independent as possible


We can have a mixture of J10Cs, J35s or KAANs in future, but we are then wholly dependent on countries to support us and that will inhibit or independence and desire to create our own weapons and be self sufficient

Now everyone understands the above is a long arduous task due to our manufacturing base or lacktheroff

But nevertheless, Project AZM was too ambitious

So I think they came up with

PFX Alpha - a gradual ownership of the JF17 project where Pakistan increases it's manufacturing of the plane as high as possible and increasingly uses Pakistani weapons and parts to make it, in essence it's a Block 4 but where Pakistan takes more ownership

With the Azerbaijan deal we are already pushing the JF17 in new and different directions

PFX - is a more ambitious project, but the natural follow-on and for the same reason, as above it gives Pakistan independence
Look at how stuck Iran is at the moment and Pakistan is probably desperate never to be in that position

It will probably take a lot of support from China en Turkey, they will probably aim to rope in Saudi or some GCC countries and get support and funding
And they will aim to concentrate on different parts like Radars, etc as standalone projects which they can push regardless of the success of PFX


Unlike some I think PFX is more a long term project and Alpha is coming much quicker over the next few years


Also I think Pakistan feels that JF17 will continue to be a export success and if they commit to supporting the project and it's future
Then their are MULTIPLE countries that may buy the plane
JF17 could emerge as the Mig21 of this century if we support it

WHATS THE ALTERNATIVE?

 

[Michael]

The reason PFX may be a reality or the military desperately wants PFX to succeed is simply without it we don't have a platform that we can call our own, which can support our desire to have our own BVRs, or air launched cruise missiles or SOWs to safeguard Pakistani security in the future and make it as independent as possible


We can have a mixture of J10Cs, J35s or KAANs in future, but we are then wholly dependent on countries to support us and that will inhibit or independence and desire to create our own weapons and be self sufficient

Now everyone understands the above is a long arduous task due to our manufacturing base or lacktheroff

But nevertheless, Project AZM was too ambitious

So I think they came up with

PFX Alpha - a gradual ownership of the JF17 project where Pakistan increases it's manufacturing of the plane as high as possible and increasingly uses Pakistani weapons and parts to make it, in essence it's a Block 4 but where Pakistan takes more ownership

With the Azerbaijan deal we are already pushing the JF17 in new and different directions

PFX - is a more ambitious project, but the natural follow-on and for the same reason, as above it gives Pakistan independence
Look at how stuck Iran is at the moment and Pakistan is probably desperate never to be in that position

It will probably take a lot of support from China en Turkey, they will probably aim to rope in Saudi or some GCC countries and get support and funding
And they will aim to concentrate on different parts like Radars, etc as standalone projects which they can push regardless of the success of PFX


Unlike some I think PFX is more a long term project and Alpha is coming much quicker over the next few years


Also I think Pakistan feels that JF17 will continue to be a export success and if they commit to supporting the project and it's future
Then their are MULTIPLE countries that may buy the plane
JF17 could emerge as the Mig21 of this century if we support it

WHATS THE ALTERNATIVE?

From my personal perspective, I hope the PFX project will succeed.

But......

Based on basic industrial development logic, I haven't found any viable development path for the PFX project at present......

So, for the time being, I won't evaluate it with optimism.

 

[hussain0216]

From my personal perspective, I hope the PFX project will succeed.

But......

Based on basic industrial development logic, I haven't found any viable development path for the PFX project at present......

So, for the time being, I won't evaluate it with optimism.

It depends on three things

Money

Commitment

How much support we can get from partners like China and Turkey


Ultimately it's all Money, which is something we don't have a great deal of, that will be the biggest hold back, but we may have a chance if we can rope in allies like Saudi or others to atleast provide funding for mutual gain

 

[Pakistanithinktank]

All these "officials" were talking about "directed energy weapons" on project Azm...where did that end up? Not to mention, some of these claims seem to contradict each other.

As I’ve said before, none of us has a magic wand to see the future. What we can do is analyze the facts in front of us and draw the most reasonable conclusions we can. Each of us is entitled to our own opinion, shaped by how we interpret those facts.

 

[Michael]

It depends on three things

Money

Commitment

How much support we can get from partners like China and Turkey


Ultimately it's all Money, which is something we don't have a great deal of, that will be the biggest hold back, but we may have a chance if we can rope in allies like Saudi or others to atleast provide funding for mutual gain

Funding isn't its biggest problem.

The biggest problem is its development direction. So far, I haven't analyzed any feasible directions. If you can analyze feasible directions, we can discuss them.

A single-engine medium-thrust or high-thrust engine solution—technically infeasible.

A twin-engine low-thrust engine solution—technically infeasible.

A twin-engine medium-thrust engine solution—conflicts with the J-35; China is unlikely to support this project.

A twin-engine high-thrust engine solution—conflicts with existing solutions from China and Turkey; neither country will support Pakistan.

A three-engine high-thrust engine solution—I'm joking.

UCAV? ------ We have far too many mature solutions to choose from. Why add more?

The only feasible route is to further upgrade the JF-17B3 to meet the 4.75th-Gen fighter jet standard mentioned in the news, or the PLA's 4.5th-Gen fighter jet standard. The goal is a future-oriented, cost-effective fighter jet, not a high-performance one. ------ But this seems to not meet the standards in the minds of Pakistani netizens.

 

[JamD]

The reason PFX may be a reality or the military desperately wants PFX to succeed is simply without it we don't have a platform that we can call our own, which can support our desire to have our own BVRs, or air launched cruise missiles or SOWs to safeguard Pakistani security in the future and make it as independent as possible

Akshually, I think you have it backwards and we do have options and that might be EXACTLY the reason PFX has little chance of succeeding. I always like to compare to the nuclear program so in that area there literally was no option. But here we can buy F-16s, J-10s, J-35s, Kaan - so several options. I've said this before many many times - PAF is a fighting force first, and a defense contractor a distant second. This is the reason it does not have the appetite to do long development programs like TAI or DRDO - it wants results in 2 years, otherwise it loses interests, decides its money is better spent buying externally and kills the program.

 

[puttputt]

Akshually, I think you have it backwards and we do have options and that might be EXACTLY the reason PFX has little chance of succeeding. I always like to compare to the nuclear program so in that area there literally was no option. But here we can buy F-16s, J-10s, J-35s, Kaan - so several options. I've said this before many many times - PAF is a fighting force first, and a defense contractor a distant second. This is the reason it does not have the appetite to do long development programs like TAI or DRDO - it wants results in 2 years, otherwise it loses interests, decides its money is better spent buying externally and kills the program.

If the PAF wants a new lightweight fighter, it will look at Hurjet or the JL-XX before it takes PFX seriously. Thus far, we haven't seen anything serious about PFX other than PPTs.

That said, the point you raise about the PAF being a fighting force first, and defence contractor second is key.

In the 1960s, I guess the military was of the mindset that they could buy nukes off the market, whereas it was the nuclear scientists who (at the time) were recommending to build the nuclear fuel cycle.

Likewise, it's the engineers and scientists urging for long-term R&D funding to study and learn flight control tech (e.g., more Iqbal-type programs), not PAF officers.

 

[Corax]

Akshually, I think you have it backwards and we do have options and that might be EXACTLY the reason PFX has little chance of succeeding. I always like to compare to the nuclear program so in that area there literally was no option. But here we can buy F-16s, J-10s, J-35s, Kaan - so several options. I've said this before many many times - PAF is a fighting force first, and a defense contractor a distant second. This is the reason it does not have the appetite to do long development programs like TAI or DRDO - it wants results in 2 years, otherwise it loses interests, decides its money is better spent buying externally and kills the program.

I think you last point is often forgotten when people complain about development infrastructure and a tech base. For the PAF, a sanction free production and supply chain is the main priority, they're not interested in reinventing the wheel, like the indians. But that's not to say they've completely ignored R&D for turnkey items, and NASTP is for that. And after the lessons from Azm, they've learnt their limitations. It seems that PFX has been downgraded to a 4.5 Gen platform, rather than fifth gen all aspect stealth, so they're repeating the JF17 model, i.e. collaborate with China to design a fighter that can be built in large numbers in Pakistan relatively quickly. The focus is on maintaining combat capability, rather than R&D and project management.

 

[hasssanali8998]

collaborate with China to design a fighter that can be built in large numbers in Pakistan relatively quickly. The focus is on maintaining combat capability, rather than R&D and project management.

so what will be difference between pfx and jf17 , will pfx be dual engine fighter ?? .

 

[Corax]

so what will be difference between pfx and jf17 , will pfx be dual engine fighter ?? .

Who knows, given all the previous changes to what the PAF wants and what it can achieve, I wouldn't be surprised if what we eventually end up with is downsized further. It could be a twin engined 4.5 gen strike aircraft, but given the PAF's historical trend of using single engined fighters, I wouldn't be surprised if it ends up as such.

 

[SiliconBit (silicon0000)]

so what will be difference between pfx and jf17 , will pfx be dual engine fighter ?? .

Who knows, given all the previous changes to what the PAF wants and what it can achieve, I wouldn't be surprised if what we eventually end up with is downsized further. It could be a twin engined 4.5 gen strike aircraft, but given the PAF's historical trend of using single engined fighters, I wouldn't be surprised if it ends up as such.

If I had to explain what PFX is, I would simplify things like this:

What it looks like to me is that PFX is actually not one but three blocks of the JF-17:

• JF-17 Block-4 (JF17P):A 4.5 generation jet, an indigenized JF-17 Block 3 with some improvements.
  • Further development of Block 3 with some systems improvements.
  • Increased indigenization/localization/Make in Pakistan components.
  • Integration of more weapon systems, both locally made and foreign-imported from friendly countries.
  • May include an upgrade program for Block 1 and 2.

• JF-17 Block-5 (JF17 Alpha):A 4.5+ generation jet, similar to the transition from Gripen C/D to Gripen E/F (But not proper medium weight).
  • Further development with a better engine and some structural changes with slight enlargement, without significantly altering the overall design parameters.
  • Increased indigenization/localization/Make in Pakistan components.
  • Integration of more weapon systems, both locally made and foreign-imported from friendly countries.

• JF-17 Block-6 (JF17 PFX or PFX):A 4.5++ (or 5 minus) generation semi-stealth jet, similar to a lightweight, single-engine KFX Block-1.
  • Further development with some stealth design and features.
  • Likely to be a purely Pakistani fighter, not joint fighter, nor 100% locally made. (although with the assistance of China, Turkey, and other friendly countries).

Regarding Timelines consider around 4 year (+/- 1 year) for each block.


P.S.: Please note that this is just my understanding of what PFX is. I do not have any insider information.

Dear In my personal view, you consider the PFX a proper 5th Gen jet, while I don't see it that way. I believe its capabilities place it somewhere between the JF-17 and the J-35/Kaan, intended to replace the JF-17 in the future. A strict 5th Gen or 4.5th Gen definition cannot be entirely applied to it.





If I had to explain what PFX is, I would simplify things like this:

What it looks like to me is that PFX is actually not one but three blocks or iteration of the JF-17:

• JF-17 Block-4 (JF17P):A 4.5 generation jet, an indigenized JF-17 Block 3 with some improvements.
  • Further development of Block 3 with some systems improvements.
  • Increased indigenization/localization/Make in Pakistan components.
  • Integration of more weapon systems, both locally made and foreign-imported from friendly countries.
  • May include an upgrade program for Block 1 and 2.

• JF-17 Block-5 (JF17 Alpha):A 4.5+ generation jet, similar to the transition from Gripen C/D to Gripen E/F (But not proper medium weight).
  • Further development with a better engine (WS21) and some structural changes with slight enlargement, without significantly altering the overall design parameters.
  • Increased indigenization/localization/Make in Pakistan components.
  • Integration of more weapon systems, both locally made and foreign-imported from friendly countries.

• JF-17 Block-6 (JF17 PFX or PFX):A 4.5++ (or 5 minus) generation semi-stealth jet, similar to a lightweight, single-engine KFX Block-1.
  • Further development with some stealth design and features.
  • Likely to be a purely Pakistani fighter, not joint fighter, nor 100% locally made. (although with the assistance of China, Turkey, and other friendly countries).

Regarding Timelines consider around 4 year (+/- 1 year) for each block.


P.S.: Please note that this is just my understanding of what PFX is. I do not have any insider information.

Dear I'm not asserting that it will have three blocks (It can be 1 or 2 or 3 or any number of blocks). I'm simply trying to explain what PFX is in simple terms, and to facilitate that explanation, I've broken it down into three sets (blocks).

In my personal view, I believe its capabilities place it somewhere between the JF-17 and the J-35/Kaan, intended to replace the JF-17 in the future. A strict 5th Gen or 4.5th Gen definition cannot be entirely applied to it.

If I had to explain what PFX is, I would simplify things like this:

What it looks like to me is that PFX is actually not one but three blocks or iteration of the JF-17:

• JF-17 Block-4 (JF17P): A 4.5 generation jet, an indigenized JF-17 Block 3 with some improvements.
  • Further development of Block 3 with some systems improvements.
  • Increased indigenization/localization/Make in Pakistan components.
  • Integration of more weapon systems, both locally made and foreign-imported from friendly countries.
  • May include an upgrade program for Block 1 and 2.

• JF-17 Block-5 (JF17 Alpha): A 4.5+ generation jet, similar to the transition from Gripen C/D to Gripen E/F (But not proper medium weight).
  • Further development with a better engine (WS21) and some structural changes with slight enlargement, without significantly altering the overall design parameters.
  • Increased indigenization/localization/Make in Pakistan components.
  • Integration of more weapon systems, both locally made and foreign-imported from friendly countries.

• JF-17 Block-6 (JF17 PFX or PFX): A 4.5++ (or 5 minus) generation semi-stealth jet, similar to a lightweight, single-engine KFX Block-1.
  • Further development with some stealth design and features.
  • Likely to be a purely Pakistani fighter, not joint fighter, nor 100% locally made. (although with the assistance of China, Turkey, and other friendly countries).

Regarding Timelines consider around 4 year (+/- 1 year) for each block.

Please note I'm not asserting that it will have three blocks (It can be 1 or 2 or 3 or any number of blocks). I'm simply trying to explain what PFX is in simple terms, and to facilitate that explanation, I've broken it down into three sets (blocks).

P.S.: Please note that this is just my understanding of what PFX is. I do not have any insider information.

 

[JamD]

I think you last point is often forgotten when people complain about development infrastructure and a tech base. For the PAF, a sanction free production and supply chain is the main priority, they're not interested in reinventing the wheel, like the indians. But that's not to say they've completely ignored R&D for turnkey items, and NASTP is for that. And after the lessons from Azm, they've learnt their limitations. It seems that PFX has been downgraded to a 4.5 Gen platform, rather than fifth gen all aspect stealth, so they're repeating the JF17 model, i.e. collaborate with China to design a fighter that can be built in large numbers in Pakistan relatively quickly. The focus is on maintaining combat capability, rather than R&D and project management.

There are two ways to look at it and it is likely a mixture of both - the incentive structure that I talked about and fundamental ignorance of what is required in these R&D programs. So yes, some part of it might be that PAF truly believes that it can do R&D and that is why it is investing in NASTP and PFX right now but it is likely that they'll eventually conclude that they don't have the appetite for this and scale all of this back - especially because they have options - not perfect options but options nonetheless. A ray of hope I see is that NASTP is operated quite independently of the PAF and is allowed to do its thing like an independent R&D organization: not being asked to deliver products every 2 years. This may be a workable model. Unfortunately, I am currently not seeing any signs of this because NASTP leadership is all PAF babus and all of NASTP facilities are near or inside PAF facilities. But who knows what will happen in the future.

Also let me just say this as someone who has some knowledge and experience with fighter R&D and production, downgrading from 5th to 4.5th gen isn't going to make PFX super easy. PAF's R&D is at a place where designing ANY kind of manned jet is a tall order. Azm was 200% crazy, PFX is 110% crazy. PFX as an indigenized JF-17 is 95% crazy - but doable. Ozgur by TAI is a good example - look how long that took and TAI (an organization with the appetite and skills for R&D) had to do it - it wasn't an air force.

 

[JamD]

i mean radars/EA are directed energy weapons , so
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