PAF F-16 | Discussions

[hasssanali8998]

but let us all rejoice that F-shola is getting some upgrades.

i need my hopium man

 

[hasssanali8998]

I think the J-10CP is an interim fighter for PAF while PAF actually waits for the J-35 to mature, perhaps a J-35CP (P for Pakistan-specific variant). I think this is the real reason.

that is still 5 to 8 years away easy

 

[imadul]

The TAI upgrade happened 16 years ago. The airframes are ready for another SLEP if we intend to keep them in the air. And it seems PAF has plans for them through 2040

Completed 9-11 years ago.
Program started in 2009 for 41 F-16 A/B.
All of them would not go upgrade simultaneously - logistics, operational requirements.
So adding 4000 service hrs ~ 16 -20 years. So you are right...since 2014 to 2025, 11 years is a duration.

Another upgrade for night vision googles was started in 2017.

Here from our own @Quwa:
In June 2009, the PAF selected TAI to implement the MLU on 41 General Dynamics F-16A/B Block-15s. The upgrade began in Q4 2010 and involved the installation of the AN/APG-68(v9) radar, a new cockpit, the Joint Helmet Mounted Cueing System (JHMCS), a new electronic warfare and electronic countermeasures system, and structural replenishment to guarantee that the F-16s safely reach their intended 8,000-hour service lives. The program was completed in September 2014.

TAI will upgrade Pakistan’s F-16 MLU fighters with nighttime capabilities - Quwa

The Pakistan Air Force (PAF)’s 45 F-16A/B Block-15 Mid-Life Update (MLU) fighters will reportedly be upgraded with optimized nighttime capabilities

quwa.org

 

[Gripen9]

IMO SLEP will only come for Blk52s because it has life. The Blk15s cannot be extended beyond UP/STAR (which PAF has already done). Those units are done by 2040 and won't see any V upgrade; the real focus is the Blk52s, which LM can extend by 6000+ hours, making them viable to like 2060-2070.

But yes, there's a thing in the deal that is purely F-16V/Blk72; it's not SLEP

That said, the State Department putting 2040 in the statement is clear signalling to the US defence industry. The US govt is saying, "hey, these F-16s will fly till 2040, they need a replacement."

By now, we should have converted MRF or the old F6RF into F16RF and should be doing these overhauls and adding life to airframes by ourselves.

 

[Gripen9]

What I will guarantee you that there is no logical or financial path to where PAF will buy new build F16s. No goverment is going to take that big a risk on weapons procurement from the USA that will need to withstand multiple changes of USA governments.

None. It will be J10Ces, JF17C until J35As turn up.

I have no doubt in my mind about that.

Maybe they will release the frozen CSF funds (by pak estimates over 12B USD)
I know I know if wishes were horses...

 

[Falcon26]

IMO SLEP will only come for Blk52s because it has life. The Blk15s cannot be extended beyond UP/STAR (which PAF has already done). Those units are done by 2040 and won't see any V upgrade; the real focus is the Blk52s, which LM can extend by 6000+ hours, making them viable to like 2060-2070.

But yes, there's a thing in the deal that is purely F-16V/Blk72; it's not SLEP

That said, the State Department putting 2040 in the statement is clear signalling to the US defence industry. The US govt is saying, "hey, these F-16s will fly till 2040, they need a replacement."

Are you referring to the mission computer related items which could indicate the APG-83?

 

[Quwa]

Are you referring to the mission computer related items which could indicate the APG-83?

Close, but something even more specific that would require the AN/APG-83 to fully work. There's no reason for us to get it (and we are) for just the Link-16. Basically, the ADU-891, which is necessary for AIM-120C8/9 and AIM-9X Blk2.

 

[Falcon26]

Close, but something even more specific that would require the AN/APG-83 to fully work. There's no reason for us to get it (and we are) for just the Link-16. Basically, the ADU-891, which is necessary for AIM-120C8/9 and AIM-9X Blk2.

my final guess:

Is it the AN/APX-126 advanced IFF?

 

[Tariq Habib Afridi]

 

[rafale]

The devil lies in the details...

View attachment 165139

View attachment 165140


ETC...

From what i understand, similar to Morocco's case with them purchasing C8s, maybe PAF is thinking that getting the upgraded software and LINK16 modules will allow them to cue the AIM120C7/8s or possible D versions of AMRAAMs without actually needing SABR upgrades which itself is costly, time consuming and also require lot of diplomatic and financial effort.

If ERIEYEs can guide the AIM120 extended range missiles, then your job is done.... and you actually don't need SABR.........because isn't that what J-10CEs did by being a missile truck and letting ground/air assets guide PL15s and J-10CEs kept their own radar off?

PAF is now fully in on multi-domain operations, meaning guidance for A2G or A2A missiles can wholly come from sources other than the host/launch aircraft right?

 

[Oscar]

I am going to very blunt here -
There is no need to convince someone who is already convinced.

More so, there is no need to point out what may or may not be understood by your enemy.

Pakistan landed its first F-16 in Jan 15th 1983.
On Jan 15th 2026 it will be 43 years - it scored its first kill in March 86 - 3 years

In those 43 years , how many hundreds of PAF F-16 pilots have flown?
How many have logged hours, tactics, strategies - quirks and behaviors specific to Pakistan’s environment from Skardu to Bholari.
From flying next to K2 in inclement weather specific to Pakistan to flying off Pakistani EEZ.

From recording the behavior of all the F-16 systems, and seeing both things it could do there and how best to use it.

Every base in the PAF has someone who knows the F-16 intimately and most bases have infrastructure to accommodate it.

From the thousands of maintenance and supply and staff folks who learnt how to keep it flying both when spares were plenty and when spares were not - in many ways Pakistan was given a pioneering lifecycle optimization plan for its aircraft.

Most importantly, learning how to keep it relevant and building expertise in house when no one would talk to you about it.

Evolving how to fight with it through the ages and absorbing BVR techniques faster than they would on any other airplane.

By comparison - for proponents of the JF-17 and J-10

First JF-17 flight to formal induction is nearly 7 years- formal induction in PaF is 2010 - so semi baked 22 years experience - now at multiple bases and familiarity. First JF-17 pool - mostly from the F-16. Time to first combat from official induction was about 2 years in 2010.

First J-10 flight with PAF- 3 years and 9 months. J-10 primary crew - top F-16 and JF-17 pilots

The F-16 isn’t done yet, people who have problems with the US can’t seem to figure out that the product doesn’t always have to take emotions from the creator.

Otherwise they would probably stop using half the internet and most of social media

 

[The Sundance Kid]

Why would india object?

US arms sales are driven by its policy of "strategic autonomy" in line with market conditions and to ensure the wellbeing of defence contractors

 

[hnn]

Yes, and I think there is even more nuance in this deal than what is stated in it. My own take is that this is a really good step.

What @Quwa is pointing at is the OFP upgrade. That's unnecessary unless PAF wanted to open the pathway to V-upgrade. LM generally don't offer OFP upgrades unless the recipient intends to move to higher tier upgrade. AFAIK, for now we are getting the baseline Viper OFP not the open architecture (which would even open up the pathway to CEC)

 

[Princeps]

also, a PAF F-16V buy would probably come in under 100m/unit., maybe around the high 80s, which is not horrible at all.

Turkey is paying 175m/unit for their 40 Block 70s. I don't see why it would be less for us.

 

[Ibbi32]

As much as i will argue for upgrading the f-16 fleet as much as possible and buying 2nd hand ac i really dont see any point in buying new birds. The f-16 is a great platform but I really dont see a long term future for it within the paf. We just got the official announcement of when the PAF intends to retire its current f-16 fleet which is 2040s. Now lets assume paf decides it wants another 18 or so f-16 new build blk 72s right now. Well it would take a couple years to come up with atleast some of the funds. Another year or so to lobby it through both Pakistani and us governments. At which point its 2028 and final year of friendly trump admin. Should we go through with this order we have no idea what will happen in 2028 elections and how it will affect our purchase. It would take atleast another 2-3 years for the production to go through and be completed assuming LM intends to keep plant running for that long beca Afaik they plan to stop in 2027. So effectively its a 2031+ situation where we see the first few new builds appearing and that is despite some generous timelines. We’ll be buying new aircraft to retire vast majority of our fleet some 10 years later. Many will say it doesn’t matter if we then keep buying more aircraft and keep these aircraft till 2060. But that doesn’t address the main point that when we are seeing mass adoption of 5th gen platforms and first stages of 6th gen aircraft we will be investing another 40 years into the f-16 platform