Türkiye vs Israel - tensions, conflicts and rivalry | Latest News and Updates

[Ali_Baba]

Few years back I went to Tel Aviv for a conference. Was shocked to see huge Turkish embassy near the Hilton beach in Tel Aviv on the way to Jaffa.

Turkey and Israel is ironclad friendship!

View attachment 166023

That does not look like an impressive "Embassy". Rather small and bordering on being rundown given that it is meant to be an embassy. They have diplomatic relations and therefore having an embassy is logical as part of that.

There is nothing ironclad in diplomatic relationships.

 

[Foinikas]

With the consent of the Palestinian government and the passage of the US ceasefire resolution, China and Russia have no reason to participate in the settlement of the Middle East issue. China can only provide some economic help to Palestine. On December 4, China announced $100 million in aid to Palestine to alleviate the humanitarian crisis in the Gaza Strip and support early recovery and reconstruction efforts there.

Instead of blaming others,tell me,why hasn't Russia nor China done something serious to stop the genocide for 2 years? Russia was in a war,ok. What about China? What was China doing apart from trading with every country that was supporting Israel? And now wants to give 100$ million aid to them? It's like you're seeing someone getting beaten up in the street,you do nothing and then you give them a band aid and claim to be a hero.

 

[东风夜放花千树]

Instead of blaming others,tell me,why hasn't Russia nor China done something serious to stop the genocide for 2 years? Russia was in a war,ok. What about China? What was China doing apart from trading with every country that was supporting Israel? And now wants to give 100$ million aid to them? It's like you're seeing someone getting beaten up in the street,you do nothing and then you give them a band aid and claim to be a hero.

Greece sacrificed a sailor for helping China when the Chinese aircraft carrier Liaoning returned home, and the Chinese people remembered Greece's efforts, and the Chinese people thanked Greece for its help. So I will explain the reason to you in detail.

China only has trade relations in the Middle East and no core interests. China does not need to maintain an oil-dollar system in the Middle East like the United States, nor does it need to cooperate with Iran to maintain its influence in the Middle East like Russia, where Russia's Caspian Sea is a good choice to open up a second-line battlefield. Russia does not want Iran to fail.

China firmly supports the establishment of a Palestinian state. The ceasefire resolutions of China and other countries have been vetoed by the United States seven times at the United Nations, which can be found on the official website of the United Nations. The last time the Palestinian government agreed to the U.S. ceasefire, China's diplomatic principle is non-interference in the internal affairs of other countries, so it cannot use a veto.

This is a new round of aid, after the Chinese government has provided assistance to Palestine many times. In 2025 alone, I can find news reports on February 18, May 20, and October 16.

A lot has happened around China, there has been a war in Myanmar in the area close to China, the Philippines has a conflict in the South China Sea, India has invaded Pakistan, and then recently Japan has intervened in Taiwan.

Greek friends, what do you want China to do? Go to the Middle East and fight the United States for other countries? No country in the world would make such a choice, except for those involved in the conflict. The liberation of Palestine requires the resistance of the Palestinian people. We, the Chinese people, insisted on fighting against Japanese militarism and paid the cost of 35 million lives to win.

 

[Foinikas]

Greek friends, what do you want China to do? Go to the Middle East and fight the United States for other countries? No country in the world would make such a choice, except for those involved in the conflict. The liberation of Palestine requires the resistance of the Palestinian people. We, the Chinese people, insisted on fighting against Japanese militarism and paid the cost of 35 million lives to win.

China is the world's biggest economy,if not then the second biggest. China has a massive military. China has nukes.

The PRC could have put immense political pressure to force the US and Israel to back off.

 

[东风夜放花千树]

China is the world's biggest economy,if not then the second biggest. China has a massive military. China has nukes.

The PRC could have put immense political pressure to force the US and Israel to back off.

The United States and China have already clashed in trade wars, tariff wars, information wars, food wars, energy wars, and technology wars.

China responded to the U.S.-initiated tariff war with reciprocal measures, and trade between the two countries was temporarily interrupted. China demanded that rare earths not be used for weapons production, which struck a blow to the U.S. military industry trade. Chinese companies did not purchase soybeans from the U.S.; after the leaders of China and the U.S. held talks in South Korea, only two shipments were bought, which hit American agriculture. China successfully test-flew new aircraft and released AI models, which impacted U.S. technology. U.S. Treasury Secretary Janet Yellen said that Chinese representatives were aggressive in negotiations, and if the situation does not develop according to China’s wishes, the U.S. will face a 'firestorm.'

China’s tough countermeasures are always interpreted by the U.S. as 'wolf warrior diplomacy.' China has already put a lot of pressure on the U.S. diplomatically, yet the U.S. still chose to support Israel.

My friend, China has already exerted pressure on the U.S. in diplomacy, economy, technology, and military affairs. If it continues to increase pressure on the U.S., the only outcome will be war.

 

[johukum]

Israel is a cancer of the world. Whenever a country takes in Jews, the Jews always launch a rebellion or war to try to occupy the country.

Israel has already committed acts of aggression against six countries in its attempt to occupy Palestine. Palestine, Iran, Qatar, Lebanon, Syria, Yemen.

With the consent of the Palestinian government and the passage of the US ceasefire resolution, China and Russia have no reason to participate in the settlement of the Middle East issue. China can only provide some economic help to Palestine. On December 4, China announced $100 million in aid to Palestine to alleviate the humanitarian crisis in the Gaza Strip and support early recovery and reconstruction efforts there.

We sympathize with the Palestinian people, but Israel's presence has proven to bring continued chaos in the Middle East.

States in and near the Middle East need to note that the chaos in these regions is conducive to covering up Israel's crimes and providing an opportunity for Israel to continue its massacre of Palestinians.

Same is China. Wherever Chinese have entered they have left behind a trail of debt and destruction. Sub-Saharan Africa is reeling under Chinese debt trap. Farmers in Zambia do not anymore own ancestral farming land, all have been taken over by Chinese. Go to any African country, picture is the same. They have destroyed the local ecology, contaminated soil and water resources looting away natural resources and taking everything back to China.

Neo-colonialism!

Devastating toxic spill seen as test of whether African countries can stand up to China

Chinese companies provide jobs and much needed revenue in Zambia, where the disaster took place.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[东风夜放花千树]

Same is China. Wherever Chinese have entered they have left behind a trail of debt and destruction. Sub-Saharan Africa is reeling under Chinese debt trap. Farmers in Zambia do not anymore own ancestral farming land, all have been taken over by Chinese. Go to any African country, picture is the same. They have destroyed the local ecology, contaminated soil and water resources looting away natural resources and taking everything back to China.

Neo-colonialism!

Devastating toxic spill seen as test of whether African countries can stand up to China

Chinese companies provide jobs and much needed revenue in Zambia, where the disaster took place.

www.bbc.co.uk

U.S. President Trump filed a lawsuit demanding $10 billion in compensation from the BBC. Last year, the BBC aired a documentary that maliciously edited and stitched together Trump's speeches, portraying him as the instigator of the January 6, 2021, U.S. Capitol riot.

Trump sued the BBC for spreading false information, yet you use BBC's reports to slander China.

Colonizing other countries is the practice of your Anglo-Saxon pirates. Many of the conflicts in the world today are the contradictions left behind by Britain.

Britain follows the U.S. in waging wars around the world, destroying families, killing the people of other countries, and plundering other countries' economies.

Just wait, when American hegemony disappears, Britain will split into three nations: Northern Ireland, Scotland, and England—which would be very fitting.

On September 12, the British missile frigate HMS Richmond passed through the Taiwan Strait under the escort of the U.S. missile destroyer USS Higgins. A few days later, The Times reported that during this passage, the Richmond encountered a simulated combat attack by Chinese PLA aircraft.

 

[Falcon26]

Turkey needs to lay low for at least a decade till its domestically derived military capabilities mature. Also, as the Iranian missile strikes on Israel show, Turkey will need mature, resilient missile strike options enough to saturate and strike reliably given targets - that capability can only come through hypersonic missiles. Ballistic missiles that follow predictable flight paths will be knocked out as Iran’s missiles and Pakistan’s rocket attacks into India in May have shown.

 

[Ali_Baba]

Turkey needs to lay low for at least a decade till its domestically derived military capabilities mature. Also, as the Iranian missile strikes on Israel show, Turkey will need mature, resilient missile strike options enough to saturate and strike reliably given targets - that capability can only come through hypersonic missiles. Ballistic missiles that follow predictable flight paths will be knocked out as Iran’s missiles and Pakistan’s rocket attacks into India in May have shown.

The tie-up of Greece and Israel is a strategic problem for Türkiye as their combined military forces, especially the airforce is a big problem for Türkiye. Alone, Türkiyecan take on either, but a combined effort it cannot yet.

Türkiye needs to recapitalise and build up her air force and the Typhoon deal will go some way in that.

If Pakistan/Türkiye could work together on one of the single engine concepts of Kaan ( there were some concepts that have been shared ) then it would help both parties with the bulk up of both the PAF and TuAF for the next generation of single engine platform that both require in the future.



China is leaving Pakistan behind with its rate of development of new projects especially as it looks to develop mostly dual engine solutions that its military needs mostly and Türkiye may be the best development partner for PFX for a single engined stealth platform(Sweden is working on something in that space too at the moment). Turkieye has some of the foundations for this approach already done in the Hurjet (though it is too small to be a fighter of course).

The problem will remain the engine of course, unless one can be sourced that has sufficient level of thrust to make the platform viable as an effective solution.

PFX/Single Kaan ideally should be one of the same thing? Just a thought..

 

[Falcon26]

The tie-up of Greece and Israel is a strategic problem for Türkiye as their combined military forces, especially the airforce is a big problem for Türkiye. Alone, Türkiyecan take on either, but a combined effort it cannot yet.

Türkiye needs to recapitalise and build up her air force and the Typhoon deal will go some way in that.

If Pakistan/Türkiye could work together on one of the single engine concepts of Kaan ( there were some concepts that have been shared ) then it would help both parties with the bulk up of both the PAF and TuAF for the next generation of single engine platform that both require in the future. China is leaving Pakistan behind with its rate of development and Türkiye may be the best development partner for this. Turkieye has some of the foundations for this approach in the Hurjet (though it is too small to be a fighter of course).

View attachment 166049

PFX/Single Kaan ideally should be one of the same thing?

I think even one-on-one Turkey will be outmatched by both Greece and Israel as both countries operate more modern 4.5 gen compared to Turkey and F-35 fighters.

Turkey should scale up KAAN & entice as many allies (Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, Indonesia, Malaysia & Qatar) to induct KAAN so that scale can be built and the price comes down perhaps substantially. Going for a single engine 5th generation fighter from scratch will be total lunacy and waste of resources and time IMO.

 

[Ali_Baba]

I think even one-on-one Turkey will be outmatched by both Greece and Israel as both countries operate more modern 4.5 gen compared to Turkey and F-35 fighters.

Yes, I think so too. Türkiye has focussed all her energies on its local development projects, at the expense of keeping its active deterrence at an appropriate level relative to Israel and Greece. At the end of the day, there is only so much money to go around on defence.

Right now, Türkiye defence against Israel depends a lot more on its NATO membership that Türkiye is comfortable with.

Turkey should scale up KAAN & entice as many allies (Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, Indonesia, Malaysia & Qatar) to induct KAAN so that scale can be built and the price comes down perhaps substantially. Going for a single engine 5th generation fighter from scratch will be total lunacy and waste of resources and time IMO.

The issue with Kaan is the engine, and that will take some time to solve even with the most optimistic projections from Turkiye. That engine development project cannot be scaled up to go any faster than it is as they have thrown everything at it and nothing is left on the table.

New "clients" for the Kaan will not make the project proceed any faster than it is right now, it will help with economies of scale for when the project is completed, but not make it go any faster.

Turkiye may be able to get back into the F35 programme for its single engine requirements if things progress well and the 6 x Turkish built F35As if delivered in a timely fashion would be welcome I am sure.

Pakistan cannot do PFX on its own. China is not interested in PFX, that much is clear and China may well walk away from single engine platforms for its fighter fleet anyway focussing on UCAVs instead. PAF needs a single engine front line 5th generation platform, as does Turkiye(F35 procurement not withstanding). So, my point is that Türkiye is the best development partner for PFX regardless of how KAAN proceeds, as they both have the same interests and needs in this space.

 

[Foinikas]

I think even one-on-one Turkey will be outmatched by both Greece and Israel as both countries operate more modern 4.5 gen compared to Turkey and F-35 fighters.

In certain aspects,yes. But overall,no.

Both Israel and Greece cannot take on Turkey in a prolonged fight. A war that would drag on for more than 2-3 months would be catastrophic.

Turkey has bigger strategic depth than both Greece and Israel. However Israel has weapons,training and tactics that allow them to strike almost anywhere in Turkey.

In the air,like you said,both countries have currently better fighters. Especially Israel is way ahead with F-16s,F-15s,F-35s and their own missiles and EW suites.

Greece right now has 42 F-16Vs in service and 24 Rafale F3R. Put the rest of the F-16s and Mirage 2000-5 Mk.II aside.

For the moment,that's ok. But not for long. We need to get the F-35s and we need to upgrade to or buy some Rafale F4 in the future,as well as to get modern weapons for the F-16Vs and the F-35s. Or else,by 2030+ we won't be a match for the Turkish Air Force if they continue at this pace.

In other areas,we're left behind after 10+ years of economic crisis and maybe even 15 years of negligence for the Armed Forces by politicians. We're trying to catch up,but even now,there's either a lack or money or a lack of urgency by the government to procure several vital equipment. What do I mean:

Yesterday,we received the first FDI HN frigate,the Kimon. The flag hoisting ceremony took place at Lorient,in France. We hadn't received a new frigate in over 30 years.





For a seafaring nation with a naval tradition going back thousands of years,we've reached a point where we've got 9 obsolete frigates,4 old ones in need of either replacement or some modernization and we also have 5 obsolete submarines to replace. That means,the majority of the Navy needs to be modernized,because the Turks have been making ships and subs like crazy.

Air Defence. We need to replace all the Soviet/Russian systems and all the obsolete Western ones as well if we're to stand a chance against any Turkish attacks. We need new radars,we need EW systems,we need 5th generation AT weapons to replace the old ATGMs like Fagot,MILAN,TOW and maybe eventually even the Kornet. So far,we've only started receiving SPIKE NLOS,but that's not enough.

Sorry,I'm going into details here and getting you dizzy.

The big picture is,we need to cover the ground we lost the last 15 years.

 

[Falcon26]

Yes, I think so too. Türkiye has focussed all her energies on its local development projects, at the expense of keeping its active deterrence at an appropriate level relative to Israel and Greece. At the end of the day, there is only so much money to go around on defence.

Right now, Türkiye defence against Israel depends a lot more on its NATO membership that Türkiye is comfortable with.



The issue with Kaan is the engine, and that will take some time to solve even with the most optimistic projections from Turkiye. That engine development project cannot be scaled up to go any faster than it is as they have thrown everything at it and nothing is left on the table.

New "clients" for the Kaan will not make the project proceed any faster than it is right now, it will help with economies of scale for when the project is completed, but not make it go any faster.

Turkiye may be able to get back into the F35 programme for its single engine requirements if things progress well and the 6 x Turkish built F35As if delivered in a timely fashion would be welcome I am sure.

Pakistan cannot do PFX on its own. China is not interested in PFX, that much is clear and China may well walk away from single engine platforms for its fighter fleet anyway focussing on UCAVs instead. PAF needs a single engine front line 5th generation platform, as does Turkiye(F35 procurement not withstanding). So, my point is that Türkiye is the best development partner for PFX regardless of how KAAN proceeds, as they both have the same interests and needs in this space.

Agreed on everything but who says PAF needs “ a single engine 5th generation fighter” where’s the Air Force requirements to justify this big claim? A single engined 5th generation fighter has many downsides, for example the f-35.

The j-35 will be produced at a scale that will be cost effective allowing PAF to induct them in appreciable numbers.

 

[Ali_Baba]

Agreed on everything but who says PAF needs “ a single engine 5th generation fighter” where’s the Air Force requirements to justify this big claim? A single engined 5th generation fighter has many downsides, for example the f-35.

The j-35 will be produced at a scale that will be cost effective allowing PAF to induct them in appreciable numbers.

Pakistan is a badly managed p*ss poor country that has gone to the IMF up to 28 times now. They cannot afford to operate a fleet of 350 jets consisting of dual engine fighters ( lets not get into modern airframe can do more, you still need physical presence given the size of the IAF ), some of the fleet will have to consist of single engine fighters. Procurement costs are only a part of the equation, life cycle costs are more important given how much you spend on that relative to the initial procurement cost.

 

[Flotilla]

Israel is a unnatural state

It's position in the middle east is artificial and built on the back of the U.S and Europe or at least some European countries

The real powers in the middle east are

Turkey (Ottomans)
Iran (Safavids)
Egypt (

And for Israel to survive it needs to dominate the region through the U.S especially and this has resulted in CHAOS in the middle east with . multiple wars and conflict and attacks and U.S foreign policy used to safeguard Israel to the detriment.of the entire region



Israel is worried that times are changing, Europe already is fading for various reasons and the writing is on the wall with the U.S although that's quite a way off
They are worried about the rise of Turkey, Iran and Egypt and will do whatever it takes to destabilize the middle east and these countries and the growth in power of Turkey, Egypt or Iran

All three countries need to plan and be smart to counter this threat


The countries of the middle east in a way have understood Israel is a U.S protectorate and may eventually go and have thus continued ancient rivalries against each other,the Arabs especially have been more concerned about Iran and Turkey then Israel even though Israel has been the cause of death of many Arabs

Things need to change

Absolutely right. Israel is done. Whenever US get stuck in Taiwán, Israel is done. Let me tell you that in Spain we are receiving hundreds of israelis that are setting to live here. They smell the water running to the bridge of the sinking ship. They know that Israel is two steps away of a deffinitive mistake.

In certain aspects,yes. But overall,no.

Both Israel and Greece cannot take on Turkey in a prolonged fight. A war that would drag on for more than 2-3 months would be catastrophic.

Turkey has bigger strategic depth than both Greece and Israel. However Israel has weapons,training and tactics that allow them to strike almost anywhere in Turkey.

In the air,like you said,both countries have currently better fighters. Especially Israel is way ahead with F-16s,F-15s,F-35s and their own missiles and EW suites.

Greece right now has 42 F-16Vs in service and 24 Rafale F3R. Put the rest of the F-16s and Mirage 2000-5 Mk.II aside.

For the moment,that's ok. But not for long. We need to get the F-35s and we need to upgrade to or buy some Rafale F4 in the future,as well as to get modern weapons for the F-16Vs and the F-35s. Or else,by 2030+ we won't be a match for the Turkish Air Force if they continue at this pace.

In other areas,we're left behind after 10+ years of economic crisis and maybe even 15 years of negligence for the Armed Forces by politicians. We're trying to catch up,but even now,there's either a lack or money or a lack of urgency by the government to procure several vital equipment. What do I mean:

Yesterday,we received the first FDI HN frigate,the Kimon. The flag hoisting ceremony took place at Lorient,in France. We hadn't received a new frigate in over 30 years.

View attachment 166057

View attachment 166058

For a seafaring nation with a naval tradition going back thousands of years,we've reached a point where we've got 9 obsolete frigates,4 old ones in need of either replacement or some modernization and we also have 5 obsolete submarines to replace. That means,the majority of the Navy needs to be modernized,because the Turks have been making ships and subs like crazy.

Air Defence. We need to replace all the Soviet/Russian systems and all the obsolete Western ones as well if we're to stand a chance against any Turkish attacks. We need new radars,we need EW systems,we need 5th generation AT weapons to replace the old ATGMs like Fagot,MILAN,TOW and maybe eventually even the Kornet. So far,we've only started receiving SPIKE NLOS,but that's not enough.

Sorry,I'm going into details here and getting you dizzy.

The big picture is,we need to cover the ground we lost the last 15 years.

Man, nobody in Europe would understand such alliance. After Genocidal campaign any hypothetical Israeli attack over Turkey would be understood like a survival war of Netanyahu and his cabinet. He needs a war and degrade his opponents. But nobody will support Israel in a agression to Turkey. Avoid to be Austria in WWI.