PTI News, Updates and Discussion

[newb3e]

What you quoted me mentioned how Imran's fortunes could have been bettter--far better--had he, a product of the military's machinations himself--simply suppressed his mighty ego and walked across the aisle to become The Leader of the Opposition in the National Assembly in April 2022. I am confident that Imran and political party's fortunes wouldn't be this bad in that case. Please study the advantages he had in April 2022 and yet he squandered them all.
There is no point sugar coating Imran's own self-destructive tendendies.

lols
accept people mandate choori and bow down to khaki lord!!

you sir have no dignity app kakuli toh nai jo paisun keh liye maaian baichtay hain!

 

[newb3e]

A true leader knows the nation he wishes to lead, and what it is capable of, or not.

IK may be a visionary with lofty ideals and a heart of gold, but all those qualities will not do an iota of good if he has no one able or willing to follow him to wherever he wishes to lead.

A leader incapable of motivating a nation to follow him is not really a leader, by definition. Blaming the nation for not seeing him for the leader that he claims to be is only part of the picture. Part of the responsibility must also lie on the leader himself for not knowing how to lead such a nation.

you talking about the same nation who shilded him with their body outside court after he was shot! or the same nation who were murdered in November!!!

again you jave no dignity you from kakul i wonder maain paisun keh liye baichnay wallay!! not my words words of Aimal kansi kawyer for your beloved idara!

 

[Jango]

A true leader knows the nation he wishes to lead, and what it is capable of, or not.

IK may be a visionary with lofty ideals and a heart of gold, but all those qualities will not do an iota of good if he has no one able or willing to follow him to wherever he wishes to lead.

A leader incapable of motivating a nation to follow him is not really a leader, by definition. Blaming the nation for not seeing him for the leader that he claims to be is only part of the picture. Part of the responsibility must also lie on the leader himself for not knowing how to lead such a nation.

I like how you wrote a lengthy paragraph on a premise which you yourself contructed.

 

[VCheng]

I like how you wrote a lengthy paragraph on a premise which you yourself contructed.

Any thought on the premise itself? You derided the nation. What do you think about a leader who thinks merely proclaiming lofty ideals will be enough to lead such a nation?

 

[Jango]

What you quoted me mentioned how Imran's fortunes could have been bettter--far better--had he, a product of the military's machinations himself--simply suppressed his mighty ego and walked across the aisle to become The Leader of the Opposition in the National Assembly in April 2022. I am confident that Imran and political party's fortunes wouldn't be this bad in that case. Please study the advantages he had in April 2022 and yet he squandered them all.
There is no point sugar coating Imran's own self-destructive tendendies.

So if someone comes and occupies your house...and tells you to restrict yourself to the servant quarter outside, you'd just do that like a good boy?

That is what this country has been doing for so many years. Keep on taking abuse after abuse after abuse.

Or you'd rather the corrupt game of musical chairs continues for eternity? Like how Nawaz after getting shamelessly booted away, still comes to the laps of the same faujis to get into power. Isay beghairti kehte hain asaz lafzon main.

 

[Jango]

Any thought on the premise itself? You derided the nation. What do you think about a leader who thinks merely proclaiming lofty ideals will be enough to lead such a nation?

Well the premise I constructed had nothing to do with the leader...but you brought him in.

You guys really need to get out of this Imran specific phobia...and look at where the country is going.

Aaj Imran hai, kal koi aur hoga, parsu koi aur. Magr yeh system aur yeh establishment, and the total disregard for the rule of law, shall remain.

Focus on the latter, not the former.

 

[Meengla]

So if someone comes and occupies your house...and tells you to restrict yourself to the servant quarter outside, you'd just do that like a good boy?

By now, it is commonly accepted that all the major players in the current Pakistani political class have been propped up and working with the same Establishment--including Imran. VCheng is the expert on that topic. Where Imran erred is he hugely blundered during the months leading to the NCM Vote in April 2022 and after that. He disregarded the advice of his sincere followers and he is paying the price. And he will continue to pay a price into the foreseeable future.
There are many explanations out there for Imran's choices. Personally, I have concluded that he is too arrogant and too stupid. I know it hurts some people's feelings here but that's how I see him.

 

[VCheng]

Well the premise I constructed had nothing to do with the leader...but you brought him in.

You guys really need to get out of this Imran specific phobia...and look at where the country is going.

Aaj Imran hai, kal koi aur hoga, parsu koi aur. Magr yeh system aur yeh establishment, and the total disregard for the rule of law, shall remain.

Focus on the latter, not the former.

Seriously, you and I agree on where this country is going.

The only reason I mention IK is because a lot here think that he somehow presents a viable direction for the country to go. I disagree with that premise, that is all.

Doing so does not make me your enemy, please be sure. I know the wrongs the military has done, and is doing, perhaps better than most here, and I have not, nor will I ever give them a free pass for that.

However, PTI's policies, as well as the disastrous decisions being made by IK, are not helpful in any way in resolving this situation for the better, that is for sure.

 

[Jango]

Seriously, you and I agree on where this country is going.

The only reason I mention IK is because a lot here think that he somehow presents a viable direction for the country to go. I disagree with that premise, that is all.

In the absence of any other hope, people pick the least worst option.

Secondly for all his faults, he was someone who made the middle class believe in something in this country.

However, PTI's policies, as well as the disastrous decisions being made by IK, are not helpful in any way in resolving this situation for the better, that is for sure.

Again...I can't really fault you for your actions if I tie you up and then throw you in the sea. Look, that fool can't even swim! You can't be having the whole leadership of the party on the run or in jail, and then blame them for not coming up with a coherent strategy.

Fauj tried the usual trick of creating a B-team ala MQM post Altaf, but that project failed miserably.

 

[Jango]

By now, it is commonly accepted that all the major players in the current Pakistani political class have been propped up and working with the same Establishment--including Imran. VCheng is the expert on that topic. Where Imran erred is he hugely blundered during the months leading to the NCM Vote in April 2022 and after that. He disregarded the advice of his sincere followers and he is paying the price. And he will continue to pay a price into the foreseeable future.
There are many explanations out there for Imran's choices. Personally, I have concluded that he is too arrogant and too stupid. I know it hurts some people's feelings here but that's how I see him.

Cute. We should all be playing goodie two shoes jamhuriat jamhuriat and the carefully orchestrated musical chairs in assembly.

 

[Meengla]

Look, that fool can't even swim! You can't be having the whole leadership of the party on the run or in jail, and then blame them for not coming up with a coherent strategy.
Fauj tried the usual trick of creating a B-team ala MQM post Altaf, but that project failed miserably.

You guys conveniently forget that from 2011 and until Imran's arrest barely a couple of years ago, he was either generously supported and/or generously tolerated by the Establishment.
BTW, MQM is doing fine. Altaf is history.

 

[Jango]

You guys conveniently forget that from 2011 and until Imran's arrest barely a couple of years ago, he was either generously supported and

Supported...arguably yes. But if you downplay all his success to establishment's support you are just being plain ignorant. I don't like Nawaz or PPP either, but people actually vote for them too. Putting everything down to establishment just shows naivety.

/or generously tolerated by the Establishment.

Who tf is the establishment to tolerate anyone?

BTW, MQM is doing fine. Altaf is history.

No wonder you want the musical chairs to continue if you think MQM is doing fine.

 

[VCheng]

In the absence of any other hope, people pick the least worst option.

Secondly for all his faults, he was someone who made the middle class believe in something in this country.

Indeed. The middle class did believe in what he promised 100%. But he was able to deliver none of what he promised. So either he knowingly over-promised, or simply failed. It is time to accept one of those two unsavory possibilities.

You can't be having the whole leadership of the party on the run or in jail, and then blame them for not coming up with a coherent strategy.

What is important here is PTI strategy that led them to being hog-tied in this manner in the first place. They had many opportunities to avoid that, and they utilized none of them.

Even now, they are insisting on a path that is not likely to lead yo any improvement in their overall chances of getting back into power.

Surely, a group that was smart enough to capture the imaginations of the middle class so successfully, should be able to come up with a better plan going forward as well, instead of persisting with the mistakes that led them here to begin with.

 

[Meengla]

What is important here is PTI strategy that led them to being hog-tied in this manner in the first place. They had many opportunities to avoid that, and they utilized none of them.

Right.
Recently, you had called Imran Khan 'smart' or something like that. I vehemently disagree with that. Ask those veteran politicians who advised him not to make a mess from the NCM vote, not to dissolved his own Assemblies (illegal actions)...
The guy is stupid! Gaining popularity by being a 'victim' of American conspirarcy is very easy in Pakistan, especially given one year of a megaphone.

 

[VCheng]

Right.
Recently, you had called Imran Khan 'smart' or something like that. I vehemently disagree with that. Ask those veteran politicians who advised him not to make a mess from the NCM vote, not to dissolved his own Assemblies (illegal actions)...
The guy is stupid! Gaining popularity by being a 'victim' of American conspirarcy is very easy in Pakistan, especially given one year of a megaphone.

You and I are both equally entitled to our opinions, and they need not be the same.

I believe that IK is indeed wise and knows exactly what he is doing. Let him. He is also responsible for the outcomes of the decisions that he chooses to make.

I see no problem with that, either.