Pakistan-India Conflict 2025: News Updates and Discussion

What stopped Pakistan from providing irrefutable evidence rather than a blurry image that didn’t even convince Pakistan supporters?

Yeah you are kind of right, not many pakistanis are satisfied with the blurry image but there is bigger evidence of DESTROYED S400 radar. You see when Modi ran to air base to disapprove Pakistan's claim he actually made a blunder by posing with S400 components that Pakistan did not even claim was the target. Your media ran a report by showing S400 missile launcher picture as evidence that no radar was destroyed.
But like i said, even if the satellite picture was clear like the Ukrainian one, indians would still not be convinced. You guys would have moved to next goal post. Saar pakistan destroyed a truck only, saaar this saar that.
So for us, modi not posing in front of Cheeseboard radar is a bigger evidence.
 
So you agree, the Indians hit their objectives lol? For all we know, we could have erased the IAF, but my question is, were Indian objectives met?


Are we really playing this game? Are you a child? Dont sit here and expect us to really believe this nonsense about the PAF having huge stocks of cruise missiles lol...


Indians did literally whatever they wanted to that day=situation not dire
Pakistan caught with its pants down TWICE= Situation not dire
Had to pull out the nuclear card AGAIN =everything is under control



was your inability to read the reason you did not make it beyond sqn leader?


yes, s400 destroyed amirite, but we are nobodies, PAF/PA doesnt need to prove anything to anyone, hence why they choreographed videos and banners for posting so the public can see lol. Give it a break.

View attachment 167303

"they dont need to prove anything to you"...lol

View attachment 167295
Exhibits A and B: It is Pakistan's nuclear arsenal keeping Indian military designs in check (not PAF shooting down Indian jets for example).
Exhibit C: ARFC being established as a step on the conventional deterrence ladder before nuclear deterrence.

So no, not his statement about india failed. Also, I do not appreciate the cheeky attempt at trying to twist what I was clearly saying. It shows a certain dearth of civic sense and decency. Ive dealt with many people like you in my career interacting with the PAF. And I know the best way to deal with you. Welcome to my ignore list. Contrary to your very strong belief, you are not worth my time and are generally bringing the quality of the forum down for me at least.
You are doing this lol lol to hide the fact that you don't know why the fight continued for an hour if objectives were met. Don't change the subject.
If the objectives were met in first 2 min, why the fight continued? Just give a simple answer instead of any whatsboutism.

If it is nonsense, confirm it from your high level sources instead of spreading lies about cruise missiles not being used because of less numbers. You have no evidence to support this claim except "trust me" and insulting anyone who doesn't agree with your false deductions.

Again, answer directly: If IAF aircraft are inside Indian airspace, can I shoot them if they have not launched any weapon? An objective answer please and not any rhetoric like caught with pants down.

A sqn ldr still knows more than a wannabe analyst who tries to humiliate others by quoting Gen Khalid Kidwai. Let me copy that paragraph for you here.
“India not only failed to achieve any of its politico-strategic-military objectives, but it also suffered major military reverses, especially in the IAF,” he pointed out.

Next time, do some thorough reading instead of just the headline to understand it completely before peddling your all is doomed narrative.

Now, if you can give some objective answers, we can continue with it. Otherwise, it is just wastage of time to tell you that you have an inflated sense of Self-importance and entitlement. Nobody owes you any explanation if you are not ready to answer the questions yourself.
Of course, I think nobody called you out before me.

“India not only failed to achieve any of its politico-strategic-military objectives, but it also suffered major military reverses, especially in the IAF,” he pointed out.

This is the statement from the same article, which you conveniently missed to include in your cheeky analysis. I don't know whether it is intellectual dishonesty or dearth of decency, but you all seriously need to read complete statements before quoting only that part which supports your narrative.

I also have the transcript of that whole speech which goes far beyond these exhibits. I can ask Gen Kidwai for you whether he believes PAF claims or not because many people here call it just copium. I mean even he is lying under ISPR koolaid unless some imagery is shown to public.
Gentlemen.
We dont need to get personal - otherwise you are the one with the weaker argument.

Second, unless y’all are getting paid to be on this forum(if so I have been deprived of a great fortune) this isn’t worth “You shall not cross this line” huffing and puffing.

Trust me bro only works if you have logic to back it up. Otherwise you’re debating ego rather than facts.


What are the facts.
@Ak01 Has not counted cruise missiles - nor can he claim to know the numbers.
But technically neither can @HemlockKhalid/AeronautIR .
Contd…

Sipri can provide all the numbers needed for estimating imported systems but not every transfer is recorded.

As far as Raad goes - I don’t see the system having any operational status in JF-17 yet at scale - it has the same issue as the Brahmos in terms of platforms. For that matter number is irrelevant.

Pakistan is short on standoff systems in any matching calibre to India because it’s first generation system in the Raptor has a launch platform that is now “Allah ke hawale” availability and the ReKs while at some scale are best used for Battlefield interdiction.

That leaves the Raad, whatever prototypes Taimoor and Rasoob are which are at best squadron level quite simply because GIDS ability to do things at scale takes time (not that it cannot be done).

Contd.
 
Gentlemen.
We dont need to get personal - otherwise you are the one with the weaker argument.

Second, unless y’all are getting paid to be on this forum(if so I have been deprived of a great fortune) this isn’t worth “You shall not cross this line” huffing and puffing.

Trust me bro only works if you have logic to back it up. Otherwise you’re debating ego rather than facts.


What are the facts.
@Ak01 Has not counted cruise missiles - nor can he claim to know the numbers.
But technically neither can @HemlockKhalid/AeronautIR .
Contd…

Sipri can provide all the numbers needed for estimating imported systems but not every transfer is recorded.

As far as Raad goes - I don’t see the system having any operational status in JF-17 yet at scale - it has the same issue as the Brahmos in terms of platforms. For that matter number is irrelevant.

Pakistan is short on standoff systems in any matching calibre to India because it’s first generation system in the Raptor has a launch platform that is now “Allah ke hawale” availability and the ReKs while at some scale are best used for Battlefield interdiction.

That leaves the Raad, whatever prototypes Taimoor and Rasoob are which are at best squadron level quite simply because GIDS ability to do things at scale takes time (not that it cannot be done).

Contd.
just a bit of banter cmon lads :p
 
Yeah you are kind of right, not many pakistanis are satisfied with the blurry image but there is bigger evidence of DESTROYED S400 radar. You see when Modi ran to air base to disapprove Pakistan's claim he actually made a blunder by posing with S400 components that Pakistan did not even claim was the target. Your media ran a report by showing S400 missile launcher picture as evidence that no radar was destroyed.
But like i said, even if the satellite picture was clear like the Ukrainian one, indians would still not be convinced. You guys would have moved to next goal post. Saar pakistan destroyed a truck only, saaar this saar that.
So for us, modi not posing in front of Cheeseboard radar is a bigger evidence.

Yes the Indians traffic in fake news and have worked persistently hard to ensure no leaks of losses. They have carried out a major misinformation campaign to blur the beating they took. On that record, you are correct. But just as the images of downed BS001 Rafale conclusively established the loss of at least one Rafale, neutral observers will make their own conclusion and align with Pakistani claims.
 
I remember back in 2019 we were told that reason why in Op Swift retort we did not shoot down more than 1 fighter jets, and we change directions of our H4 bombs because IAF balakot strikes weren't effective, we lost no human only trees and a crow which is fair reaction from Pakistan, we return the pilot as any respectable adversary will do and by in large People accepted the response from Pakistan to 2019 strikes but in may situation was a lot different.
we were told they are going to hit us, war mongering was at its peak, we can see their military making a move, CAP's in air etc. But I agree we can not shoot their jets when they are in their own territory unless they release their loads, they did and turn around and we hit them back the same night. I don't think none of us have a issue with PAF performance, the problem here which many members are not happy that we took few days to launch BuM, and when we did it was a kind of a Sus reaction, if you are taking days to prep for a military operation to avenge 40 civilians, and strikes in the heart of Pakistan, honestly I would expect a little bit more than just few F1 rockets and Arti fire.

IAF was flying drones over Lahore, Karachi and all of our Air bases were at their targets, yes we responded at 19 locations as per Indian DGMO's but again with no substantial damage to show to Indians, our own people and international media. We just PAF performance, and even than in most international media its restricted to only 3 fighters, I did not see CNN or BBC or any other major international media saying that we shot 7-8 jets and here is the evidence of it. While videos of Indian strikes of their intended targets are on internet. We heard we destroyed some Brig HQ which I thought we did in 2019 ? reports were coming non stop, we did this and that but all we saw was some F1 rockets fired, after that initial jazbaat Pakistani's at least the rational ones started to question the effectiveness of these strikes, and yes we are still at a point where IWT is suspended, and Indians can launch yet another strike if there is a terrorist attack in India. Of course we can not stop Indians from acting crazy but at least we could've blasted their military bases and do significant damage that will take years to repair and rebuild strategy, but given how much Indians itching for war and they have resources at their disposal I believe next engagement is not far away.

Also, can anyone tell Army without getting picked up by a Vigo that for FUQ sake stop with this respond at our time of choosing BS? I mean the night Indian jets launch their CM, next morning we should have blasted them with our own F-Rockets, ALCM, Baburs and other drones but we waited for days that give Indians time to regroup, the night of air battle after the hour long skirmish Indian forces were disoriented and their morale was at all time low as they were hearing news about one downed jet after another, that was the perfect time to hit them hard before they get their nerves back, and yet we decided to wait couple of days, for all intent and purposes I could believe that we delay the military operation before we didn't have those banners we put on Fateh launchers with kids name who died in Indians strikes and we wanted to do some theatrics, yaar that was really embarrassing. No Nuclear Armed country would let a neighbor kill its 40 civilians with women/children, and wait for few days to launch retaliatory strikes and that too very sus.

In future conflict, if PAF perform bad than Allah hi Hafiz hai Pakistan ka, we will take significant beatings and then goes back to usual so called...
1766715711140.png
 
Coming to the idea of what India did and didn’t do.
Lets look at the knowns -
First, India started amassing a strike package (the delay it took them points to pretty bad ToT and coordination discipline across IaF bases) and as the PAF built up accordingly they were still launching their original package + scrambles they had originally kept for followup duties ala what they did immediate in 2019 post Balakot.

During this time, what was PAF expecting?
Was it prepared to tackle Spice or Scalp?
Heck no, Pakistan has no shorads capable of engaging guided bombs or otherwise in the 4-5 minutes notice the IAF strike packages launched them.

You had little to none deployed PA AD GDFs that could come in because everyone was still figuring out what the level of escalation would be.

You focus was A2A and it showed, once they launched you focused on killing their strike packages - of which you only got 1 Rafale and 1 M2k(assumed) - then baited the remaining escorts and sweeps in to knock them out.

Contd…
 
From that point onwards you had what to counter India’s morning SEAD efforts (which btw wasn’t as coordinated as assumed - our little wargame on CMANO here did a better job in employing the Harops).

They launched 70 of them and from what understand three primary bearings/timeframes(@side-winder)

Which means when the first one was picked up and eventually the AD started realizing and responding - it was just AAA. No Manpads ever got out and the rest was LoS hits using small arms and other things.

The Harops had only one emission from the Lahore AD group who probably never got the memo on emissions - from that point onwards there was a combination of spoofing and plain nothing for the Harops to do other than fly on and loitering. The whole Kirana hills thing was in my view someone’s emissions attracting this thing and then it crashed in the vicinty.
 
The PAF got the better of the Indians on the opening night, but they did pivot their strategy and showcased how they can erode our defensive posture via BrahMos strikes.

The next time the Indians want to ratchet up the situation, they likely won't bank on the IAF but, instead, launch preemptive missile strikes in mass against us. They know they can break through our IADS with just enough scale, so they'll leverage that and hit the PAF while it's on the ground.

Indians win when they fight like snakes, like they had in 1971. It'll be the same the next time UNLESS we take the offensive from the start and knock out their missile TELs as they're mobilizing.
It's like saying ! Your girlfriend has strong lower half , if you don't perform well she will squeeze you between her legs and break your back
 
Why I am narrating it piecemeal is to try and drive the idea - both sides were executing plans in a confused manner - which tells me it was “great on paper” but many systems of systems didn’t work on either side probably because of the whole “Is this really happening” not being a universal thing.
 
Yeah you are kind of right, not many pakistanis are satisfied with the blurry image but there is bigger evidence of DESTROYED S400 radar. You see when Modi ran to air base to disapprove Pakistan's claim he actually made a blunder by posing with S400 components that Pakistan did not even claim was the target. Your media ran a report by showing S400 missile launcher picture as evidence that no radar was destroyed.
But like i said, even if the satellite picture was clear like the Ukrainian one, indians would still not be convinced. You guys would have moved to next goal post. Saar pakistan destroyed a truck only, saaar this saar that.
So for us, modi not posing in front of Cheeseboard radar is a bigger evidence.
When the gentleman says he's not not from South Asia , you got to take his words at face value and respect that unless proven otherwise.
 
Why I am narrating it piecemeal is to try and drive the idea - both sides were executing plans in a confused manner - which tells me it was “great on paper” but many systems of systems didn’t work on either side probably because of the whole “Is this really happening” not being a universal thing.
If you are looking for meticulous implementation of plans then just remember one thing.... when you fire the first short , all of your plans ' warh jatay heinh ' .
 
As for India’s messaging and overall result - India wanted to demonstrate utter dominance - Phuddu.
But it wanted to demonstrate a norm of attacks - yes but they also learned the cost of it. The IAF was left with little to show as a professional service barring IADS.

Post the skirmish you had Rafale’s flying NoE to launch a scalp or two and the rest was their Brahmos TELs doing not even shoot and scoot that no one in Pakistan’s MDO or Daddu command bothered to even try to get.

BuM, the YIHA bait was smoothly ignored but then once a CM-400 and F4 were sent the S-400s way both Bhuj and Adampur batteries went silent.

As this is happening - what are the Indian Chiefs telling Modi?
What are hotlines on?
Come clue comes from Trump…
Contd
 
What was the number of X missiles? I mean, you are calling it objective reality so you must have the total number of missiles fired vs hits.

You must also have the data about current number of launchers in Indian Army and IAF Su-30 capable to fire Brahmos. Let's calculate that objective reality. I can do the statistical analysis for your not-hypothesis inference if you are busy elsewhere.
Okay, let's go with PAF's assessment.

According to the PAF, how many missiles hit targets or, so that we have a safe space for you, crashed within a Pakistani military facility, and how many did the PAF say were intercepted?

I will use the exact numbers you provide to prove my point.
 
just a bit of banter cmon lads :p
Banter has gotta have expressions along with it.

Otherwise it’s being a dick - saying from experience unfortunately.

The simple problem is we all mean well but also have varied life experiences driving our perception of the situation.

You can either love Tesla and call it the next Apple - or point out how fucked up it is to rely purely on cameras to control a car where manufacturing quality is near pathetic with just the bare spec used to make claims of totally different class of engineering standards.
 
Back to the subject - Trump mixed and matches his brain waves. But recently while talking about Modi being off his character he mentioned how he was screaming on wanting to fight and then Pakistanis screaming they want to fight.

Then try to link it to Gen Kidwai’s statements and establishing nuclear deterrence.

And I have one unpopular conclusion:

India took a punch to the nose and was misbalanced but was gearing up to unleash a lot more, and it was made clear by the top brass that while Pakistan will put up a good fight - this unhinged India means you are going to plainly take a lot more losses especially in your already disjointed state and will have to head up the ladder faster.

That is something that has always been understood - the question is always been of the week until the number will overwhelm it.
 

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