PAF J-10CE News, Updates and Discussion

[Bratva]

how many were destroyed ??

Whoever answers would endup in jail. So it is classified.

 

[hasssanali8998]

So it is classified.

as it should be , but what did Air Marshal Jawad Saeed say

 

[Bratva]

ef paf men go on and on about things, this very thread is an example.

paf itself should be accountable, same with pa, same with pn.

Lets be realistic here shall we. PAF, PA, PN are only accountable to themselves. Everyone toes the company line. Accountability is an illusion. Do you want him to end up in jail for speaking the truth or be stripped of his rank and benefits? Your bickering with him would not change a thing.

 

[Ak01]

Lets be realistic here shall we. PAF, PA, PN are only accountable to themselves. Everyone toes the company line. Accountability is an illusion. Do you want him to end up in jail for speaking the truth or be stripped of his rank and benefits? Your bickering with him would not change a thing.

i think you've misunderstood whats being said here...

 

[Bratva]

as it should be , but what did Air Marshal Jawad Saeed say

You didn't read the white pape on Sidhu corruption published by Wajahat S Khan? His source was Jawad Saeed.

 

[puttputt]

Ok then, if you are bringing Islam in it now, go and ask them your questions. Who am I to stop you.
My simple point is that keep the discussions related to the topic here.

And I didn't mean you can't ask chiefs or government any question. Don't twist my words. We were talking about issues of our system where we cannot even question the local SHO or Assistant Commissioner for issues like crimes or pollution etc.
I gave a suggestion of petition to MNA or judge and it was deemed hilarious and dangerous by some. So, based on it, do you think CAS will be pushed to release evidence through this forum?

Every government department uses tax money unless you believe it's only the military and rest all work for free.

If you haven't still understood my point, then I can just apologize for wasting your time and we can move on with our lives. As I said, this is an exercise in futility and I am more interested in discussing airpower than politics.

Look, ultimately, the issue was this: Pakistan's military leaders claimed that they landed successful hits on India, but could not provide as much evidence as the Indians did for their claims, and we're asking for that level of proof to back our claims.

Otherwise, we're just making claims, and when the lives of people -- from the soldier to the civilian -- are on the line, living off claims is not good enough. We need to work off verifiable facts.

If we're at a point in our defence posture that we cannot fiscally support the "wish list" we'd like to see, then yes, that's where the discussion needs to head, i.e., why we can't bankroll our defence needs.

Invariably, that problem will lead us to discuss the core issues affecting society as a whole, i.e., a lack of government/military accountability, a lack of tax reform, an over-bloated bureaucracy, an over-privileged benefits system, an over-burdened pension system, and so on.

I'm fine with discussing air power, but no matter what, every honest discussion on the matter will lead to the same questions, e.g., why we can't bankroll our defence requirements, etc.

 

[Waz]

I'll thread ban anyone who now doesn't focus on the J-10, all I see is politics and the last post about the J-10 was pages ago.
You have been warned so please listen.

 

[AeronautIR]

@Oscar @side-winder is there any mechanism to stop this ranting?
If I will continue replying to all, this unproductive and toxic debate will continue.

 

[Waz]

@Oscar @side-winder is there any mechanism to stop this ranting?
If I will continue replying to all, this unproductive and toxic debate will continue.

Just thread banned people, please see my warning.

 

[Deino]

I think we all need to go back to YJ-21E integration on J-10C news. That needs more in-depth discussion.

No, since it is not relevant to the PAF operating the J-10.

 

[MirageV3ff]

If we are done trying to find the tail of the snake - I suggest we return to the J-10C.

Coming back to topic

Since we there has been an alleged photo of a J-10 carrying what apparently was a YJ-21 (or mock up or probably even a misidentified munition) it does beg the question of whether PAF should consider J-10s for anti-shipping roles + Maritime strike over the JF-17. It is after all a larger platform and can carry other weapons like the YJ-12.

I don't really see J-10s being used in precision ground strikes even if a second squadron is raised.

Maritime strike on the other hand is something I can see happening. And there will be a need for it once Vikrant is equipped with Rafale Ms

 

[falcon34]

I think we all need to go back to YJ-21E integration on J-10C news. That needs more in-depth discussion.

No we need a solution like Blue sparrow and Silver sparrow.
That's the true capability, it'll put entire mainland India within PAFs reach.

 

[puttputt]

No, since it is not relevant to the PAF operating the J-10.

It could be in the context that the PAF needs additional strike options. Even if the J-35AE is inducted, that alone will not deliver enough in the way of ordnance or scale-out operations. The PAF will need to induct more J-10CEs and, more importantly, configure them for the strike role, so the YJ-21E news from China bodes well, IMO.

Broadly, there are no stealth fighter-led ops right now that don't use 4.5/4+ generation fighters, even the PLAAF and PLAN can leverage their respective Sino-Flanker variants. For the PAF, the only option in this regard is to get more A2G capability from the J-10CE.

Coming back to topic

Since we there has been an alleged photo of a J-10 carrying what apparently was a YJ-21 (or mock up or probably even a misidentified munition) it does beg the question of whether PAF should consider J-10s for anti-shipping roles + Maritime strike over the JF-17. It is after all a larger platform and can carry other weapons like the YJ-12.

I don't really see J-10s being used in precision ground strikes even if a second squadron is raised.

Maritime strike on the other hand is something I can see happening. And there will be a need for it once Vikrant is equipped with Rafale Ms

The PAF doesn't have many options for the A2G role besides the J-10CE and JF-17. We know the latter's being configured with a range of SOWs, especially the AWC IREK-series and Taimur/Ra'ad, but the J-10CE evidently has the potential to do more. I think the PAF would be interested in seeing if it can leverage the J-10CE with the J-35AE the way the Israelis used the F-16Is with the F-35I.

If the PAF can't get more A2G capacity out of its existing crewed fighters, then the only way for it to build credible stealth fighter-led operations is to start offloading the A2G role to a fighter drone like the Bayraktar Kizilelma.

However, the Kizilelma is being positioned as a successor to crewed fighters, not as a CCA or MUM-T-loyal wingman; so, while unlikely at this time, there is a scenario in which the PAF goes full steam ahead with the fighter UCAV to drive most offensive air ops.

Given the density and quality of India's IADS and the communal mob nature of their northern populations, perhaps it would be best to just send UCAVs like Kizilelma across the border rather than any crewed fighter.

I mean, there was a discussion on this or the old forum a while back where the ideal scenario for PAC would be to pivot into just designing and manufacturing UCAVs, leaving the PAF to import its crewed fighters from China, basically.

 

[Ali_Baba]

Coming back to topic

Since we there has been an alleged photo of a J-10 carrying what apparently was a YJ-21 (or mock up or probably even a misidentified munition) it does beg the question of whether PAF should consider J-10s for anti-shipping roles + Maritime strike over the JF-17. It is after all a larger platform and can carry other weapons like the YJ-12.

I don't really see J-10s being used in precision ground strikes even if a second squadron is raised.

Maritime strike on the other hand is something I can see happening. And there will be a need for it once Vikrant is equipped with Rafale Ms

The Vikrant is a worthy enough target for the PAF to risk its small fleet of J10CE's for, so I can see PAF procuring a silver bullet force of YJ-21's.

Is there a possibility that PAF asked for this integration inflight of India's naval actions in the last conflict, or was it just the natural enhancement of the J10C for the PLAAF?

 

[MirageV3ff]

The Vikrant is a worthy enough target for the PAF to risk its small fleet of J10CE's for, so I can see PAF procuring a silver bullet force of YJ-21's.

Is there a possibility that PAF asked for this integration inflight of India's naval actions in the last conflict, or was it just the natural enhancement of the J10C for the PLAAF?

Exactly and it's also a deterrent if we do procure a silver bullet force and raise a maritime strike sqd of J-10s.

JF-17s with CM-400 and CM-802s may not be enough.

And for the last part I can't comment on it. Probably someone more in the know can