@HemlockKhalid/AeronautIR
I sense that now that we've entered the realm of
BBVR, where BVR isn't...eh...enough.
India now wants to shoot down PAF Jets/Special Mission Aircrafts from distance of Nepal.
Them going on a shopping spree (again) just gives out what their plans/intentions are going forward.
Quite frankly speaking i'm still puzzled if these idiots actually have the MBDA Meteor or not, but one has to wonder why they're so interested in the R-37.
Q. Can India (now) place an order for the Russian BVR (R-37) and the much talked about S-500 without
CAATSA coming into play?
I ask this because previously, India did get a waiver (from the US) because according to them, they had already placed an order for the S-400 prior to the:
Countering America's Adversaries Through Sanctions Act
@Oscar
Before we get into if they could or could not place the order for those weapons - you need to first figure out the performance parameters of those weapons and what they are for.
S-500 is a very specific Anti Ballistic and Hypersonic system weapon - it has specialized interceptors for just that. It is not optimized for nor due to plain physics which I have outlined in the 2025 conflict thread - is it able to engage AEW systems or otherwise effectively.
The Indians are pursuing additional S-400 batteries however - to plug in gaps and more importantly since their "forward deployment" as they claim did not yield results layer a S-400 over another S-400 to provide concentric HIMAD layers upon which they may or may not put in a S-500 for full ABM. This should tell you the actual situation with AAD and PAAD as well.
It is however an even greater challenge for PAF for which they will likely need the best China has to offer to have some hope of success.
The next is R-37 - it is a fearsome weapon but it too has it's limitations of employment.
It was available to India even before this but the Russians aren't giving it for cheap.
Let's say they do pursue it -
They currently have various stages of "pilot" programs(because they haven't scaled it across their entire fleet) for I-Derby(
was never in employment parameters against PL-15 threat) and Astra(
mk1 was useless so Mk2 was out in token numbers)
There is the usual Asian Raptor logic with the Su-30MKI - with 16 missiles and what not but in reality there are more practical limitations especially when for the most part you are deploying them from bases well within your central periphery for reason outlined earlier that includes lack of HAS and threats to those bases as well.
But lets look at plain integration issues (and why Su-30SMs also do not carry them in regularity but the Su-35 does with caveats)
The Su-30MKI’s N011M Bars family is a PESA radar with published track-while-scan/engagement limits (e.g., tracking ~15 targets and engaging a smaller subset, depending on mode). Lets say the R-37 is ok for integration since the logic/control is similar to existing Su-3x variants the issue here isnt radar range but whether the radar + mission computer can hold a
stable, high-quality track at long range
while the tactical picture is changing, then generate and push
timely mid-course updates in the correct missile dialect and then do that while the aircraft is also managing
EW self-protection, formation data, and other sensors.
Happy to get inputs here.
BUT you say, the Indians are doing their vaunted Super Sukhoi updates with indigenous radars and so on. If we forget their ability to scale that out for the term and say they are able to do it magically very fast. The problem is that integrating the R-37 with that system is harder not easier. This means the Russians will have to release to India specific message formats, timing, encryption/authentication choices, and fire-control logic which means if you do get that you re-qualify it (which is also why their delays with I-derby and Astra persisted) the whole chain including new flight tests with the system.
Assume that happens in typical
smooth Indian fashion.
Let's talk to operational limits as well - the R-37 is around 500kg (CM-400 territory) with only certain stations cleared for it and brings with it severe drag - performance penalties that means acceleration, top speed at altitude(necessary for effective long range shots) , turning radius and most important time-to and time-on station. That means routine sorties aren't carrying R-37s unless the IAF is full of impractical fools like their online warrior clans because with 1-2 large BVR missiles and fuel needed for any effective loitering time means you either give up fuel, other AAM count or more in terms of mission flexibility. None of that is "unusual" - smaller underpowered aircraft like the JF-17 face even more severe penalties.
Now for last, the need to fit all of it into a system of systems because that is the IAF's achilleas heel(
which you all should do hajat for every day that they never solve) means you need to solve detection and tracking under jamming which dictates offboard targeting augmentation to the least, ensure mid course update correction which means you need to either fire in closer envelopes - long range btw is long uncertainity.
So before one side does its typical chest beating and one panics - this would be the result of a R-37 fit.
India does get a credible long range kinematic option against Pakistan's HVAAs BUT
Carriage and performance penalties mean it is not always carried.
Fewer clean shots at actual max or close to max range due to dense EW
More dependance on cooperative targeting and ONLY if the MKI can translate and push updates reliably.
This all assumes that Russia will provide everything needed to integrate their missile seamlessly with a fully indigenous radar stack.
