Pakistan Air Force | News & Discussions

rafale said:
You completely mis-interpreted my post.....and that too literally.

USAF doesn't have any kills against its peer competitor or next peer competitor....in that case it is either the Russians or China. Until that happens I rest my case. Sure they have the tech, tactics and funding......but again, anything can happen in air combat.

Pakistan went up against an enemy many times bigger than itself and came out on top in that specific battle. Sure IAF can do a lot with the number of assets it has, but when the battle changed from ground strike to AA combat, they failed to change their tactics right in the air.


Also I am not underestimating my enemy, I am just seeing the plausible chance that they actually learn......and am actually interested in knowing why they keep on doing the same thing again and again. On paper they have better assets anyway.
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The main point is that people are already ruling out the F-16 as if its the past and giving too much credit to a platform (J-10c) that has seen combat once in its operational history (overall).

Anyways, i'm hoping that down the line we get some more interesting upgrades to our Vipers once they are done with the current upgrades.
 
IMHO the question that we should all be asking is what is the remaining life cycle of J-10 in PLAAF and any future export potential to customer other than PAF? Building a fleet of jets say 45+ plus jets would mean atleast 30 years of operations and upgrades. Will the manufacturer be there to support and upgrade this purchase for the next 30 or so years or even 15 years?

To me J-10C, while an extremely capable aircraft, inducting it in large numbers is a gamble given the slow glide towards end-of-life in PLAAF. The only way PAF can go for larger number of j-10C+ is if we either get an extended MRO facility, and source codes etc. and engine rebuild.

PAF's history has been to induct atleast 80+ aircraft of a type to ensure operational life cycle costs are within limits. MRO facility was an integral part of the deal for such inductions, the only exception was the F-16.
 
Trailer23 said:
The main point is that people are already ruling out the F-16 as if its the past and giving too much credit to a platform (J-10c) that has seen combat once in its operational history (overall).

Anyways, i'm hoping that down the line we get some more interesting upgrades to our Vipers once they are done with the current upgrades.
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I agree with your statement, F-16s are no where to be written off and somehow if PAF can get the approval from USA, they MUST go for as many upgrades as possible (depending on health of older MLU F-16s)

The problem is, V upgrades are facing delays from LM end.....and you are looking at a gamble.....Trump administration is there for next 3 years, but what happens after that? Because it will take 3-4 years to get the upgrades done.

In any case, having at least 18 BLK52s upgraded will do wonders to boost existing fleet numbers to 150KM bvr range.

PAF should definitely not abandon F-16s........but here is a catch situation, that last time it had to choose F-16s in early 2000s, it had no other option to go for but to upgrade existing F-16s and buy new ones (other than the abhorrently expensive Typhoons/Rafales).......but now PAF already has J-10 and J-35s to look forward to. So balancing financing and needs is gonna be a challenge.
 
Bilal said:
PAF DGPR is official source. And yes you are right, 290km is export version to comply with MTCR.
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What is the range for SCALP that India got from France? were they capped as well?
 
Aamir Hussain said:
IMHO the question that we should all be asking is what is the remaining life cycle of J-10 in PLAAF and any future export potential to customer other than PAF? Building a fleet of jets say 45+ plus jets would mean atleast 30 years of operations and upgrades. Will the manufacturer be there to support and upgrade this purchase for the next 30 or so years or even 15 years?

To me J-10C, while an extremely capable aircraft, inducting it in large numbers is a gamble given the slow glide towards end-of-life in PLAAF. The only way PAF can go for larger number of j-10C+ is if we either get an extended MRO facility, and source codes etc. and engine rebuild.

PAF's history has been to induct atleast 80+ aircraft of a type to ensure operational life cycle costs are within limits. MRO facility was an integral part of the deal for such inductions, the only exception was the F-16.
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J-10s can always take advantage of integrating avionics/radar from the higher end J-35/J-20 as they keep evolving, similar to how Northrop did with V upgrades derived from F-35.

Also, J-10s were inducted to nullify the Indian advantage of Meteors on Rafales......they brought along PL15s which clearly was a game changer. The good thing is, you can always increase the numbers of J-10s quickly.

Look how long it took France to deliver the piecemeal 36 aircraft Rafale order, that too obsolete F3 (indian version) without Meteor integration.....and then look how much time it took China to deliver J-10s......

I think PAF should go for 3 J-10 Squadrons, with one squadron being atleast heavy ground/maritime strike capable
 
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There has been a general shift post May to add more conventional cruise missiles into the Arsenal, Raad wasn't used since it was primarily intended for nuclear delivery so it only left CM-400s as the conventional strike ALM, I think it now depends if they can scale up production.
 
Aamir Hussain said:
IMHO the question that we should all be asking is what is the remaining life cycle of J-10 in PLAAF and any future export potential to customer other than PAF? Building a fleet of jets say 45+ plus jets would mean atleast 30 years of operations and upgrades. Will the manufacturer be there to support and upgrade this purchase for the next 30 or so years or even 15 years?

To me J-10C, while an extremely capable aircraft, inducting it in large numbers is a gamble given the slow glide towards end-of-life in PLAAF. The only way PAF can go for larger number of j-10C+ is if we either get an extended MRO facility, and source codes etc. and engine rebuild.

PAF's history has been to induct atleast 80+ aircraft of a type to ensure operational life cycle costs are within limits. MRO facility was an integral part of the deal for such inductions, the only exception was the F-16.
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To me, logically, it makes more sense for PAF to get the early variants of the J-35AE "Block 1"(Made up by me..) and return the J10CE to China to offset the J10CE purchase so that PAF does not have to deal with the lifespan issues of the J10CE as you have indicated. Even an early variant of the J-35AE will be far far far more capable than the J10CE, even with Day#1 operational issues of a brand new platform and worth the risk both interms of military capability increase as well as reducing fleetwide maintenance issues in the future.
 
Ali_Baba said:
To me, logically, it makes more sense for PAF to get the early variants of the J-35AE "Block 1"(Made up by me..) and return the J10CE to China to offset the J10CE purchase so that PAF does not have to deal with the lifespan issues of the J10CE as you have indicated. Even an early variant of the J-35AE will be far far far more capable than the J10CE, even with Day#1 operational issues of a brand new platform and worth the risk both interms of military capability increase as well as reducing fleetwide maintenance issues in the future.
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PAF will increase the number of J10's it has, its a done deal.
 
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