PAF Conducts Successful Test Launch of Taimoor ALCM

[RAMPAGE]

Different cultural backgrounds lead to completely different perspectives on the same events.

We can't always blame differences in culture for our insensitivities. I don't think thoughtful Chinese people boast when they offer advice or critique. It's just good sense, to which culture is not necessarily an impediment.

 

[AeronautIR]

I think the amount of manholes India exports just to the US is more than our total export.
Har gutter ke dhakan par "Made in India" likha hota hai...

Yes yes this was me being snide.
#achasorry

As I said before, HAL was founded in 1940 and was producing aircraft when we didn't even think of any such factory. Same goes for many other industrial bases.

So, these are important variables if we actually want to find the solution. The mentality of officers is just one of the issues. Now, if this disagreement can lead to a personal attack like many others, count that a problem too.

 

[AeronautIR]

bhai just read JAMDs post here in this thread .

I have, along with many low blows and personal attacks if someone disagrees with those posts.

 

[arsalan345]

Respectfully, I dont find Taimoor ALCM to be something of significance that this thread has 43 pages of discussion with half about taimoor and rest about who has more knowledge and who has not.

My future take is on Fatah systems or alike with longer ranges in future.

If I have mistaken taimoor with raad or scalp like systems then its a good platform but not game changer.

Please correct me if it is really a system to be game changer. I understand that I cannot be "Mr. know it all".

This is an upgraded version of raad but for some reason, members here are making assumptions that it's like scalp etc. we all know this missile can't travel 100 km inside India, forget 600km. Subsonic systems are mostly obsolete and useless unless they are integrated with advanced technology like the technology used in scalp. This missile is nothing special. Something that works in real war is more valuable than useless raad and this new upgraded version.

 

[arsalan345]

Plus the costs, will Pakistan be producing 1000s of cruise missiles, can we afford them, hypersonic are more expensive, this is why Pakistan used fatah 3, we can fire more of them but ofcourse detection is the issue.

Cost is always an issue but this is why we need to be smart. We must know what we want. India knows weakness of Pakistan that's why their only focus is on brahmos. Their other projects aren't their priority. Interceptors and different Sams are their priority and look at them! Do you think in the next conflict, they will not fire brahmos? Obviously they will and whole eastern coverage will be gone with loss of airbases. India is working to destroy Pakistan but Pakistan is focused on useless and obsolete technology. Where are satellite images of our damage on Indian airbases? There is nothing because they defended well which put us under pressure but look at us! I don't know how many times they will upgrade raad. It wasn't even used in the war so I consider it useless.

 

[Bilal]

As I said before, HAL was founded in 1940 and was producing aircraft when we didn't even think of any such factory. Same goes for many other industrial bases.

So, these are important variables if we actually want to find the solution. The mentality of officers is just one of the issues. Now, if this disagreement can lead to a personal attack like many others, count that a problem too.

I think, it’s not (just) HAL we should focus on. I mean there is a whole ecosystem that the have developed.

I mean look at L&T, Bharat Forge and beyond maybe half a dozen of such gigantic engineering and manufacturing setups, they have developed newer supply chain at all levels.

This was done by tech transfer and off take contracts with private sector which were in business of car parts manufacturing, metal fab, etc.

 

[Psyko70]

This is an upgraded version of raad but for some reason, members here are making assumptions that it's like scalp etc. we all know this missile can't travel 100 km inside India, forget 600km. Subsonic systems are mostly obsolete and useless unless they are integrated with advanced technology like the technology used in scalp. This missile is nothing special. Something that works in real war is more valuable than useless raad and this new upgraded version.

I think its in direct competition to scalp. I just think subsonic ALCM are slow enough and if enemy has intel that some alcm attack is planned they can just move the assets. I have enough belief that its 600km range is adequate and has scalp level severity. But overall subsonic alcm is issue. Hence, not a game changer for me. Just another delivery system for payloads for PAF.

 

[arsalan345]

@arsalan345

Arsalan bhai,

These Indian missiles did real damage on our side just because of their hypersonic speed.

A small correction. None of our missiles-Brahmos or SCALP are hypersonic. They are supersonic. Hypersonic missiles are at least 5 years from operational deployment.

Regards

I know India is working on hypersonic cruise missiles. You corrected me well but it's always about speed. People should ask why brahmos penetrated deep? Why cm-400 penetrated? Answer is speed. India was unable to intercept cm-400 because of its speed. Pakistan has subsonic missiles. They aren't even supersonic. This is my point.

 

[arsalan345]

I think its in direct competition to scalp. I just think subsonic ALCM are slow enough and if enemy has intel that some alcm attack is planned they can just move the assets. I have enough belief that its 600km range is adequate and has scalp level severity. But overall subsonic alcm is issue. Hence, not a game changer for me. Just another delivery system for payloads for PAF.

I disagree. This is not scalp. Second, we can't penetrate Indian air defence with subsonic missiles. These systems are giving enough time to Indian interceptors to intercept. Less time, more damage. More time, zero damage.

 

[Samurai]

Please correct me if it is really a system to be game changer. I understand that I cannot be "Mr. know it all".

I think the game changing aspect for this missile is its IIR capability which makes the missile more precise in hitting its target. But for me looking at the convo./debate on this thread the crux of the matter is this:

1) After the Pakistan-India standoff, Pakistan found out that, it was critically lacking in the conventional strike capability and not having a unified command and force structure. Therefore, as Pakistan always goes the reactive approach rather than pro-active, the need of the hour was to have a rocket force command structure ready and the post of CDF.

2) The Army's ground launched Fatah systems, although not very much effective, emphasized on the importance of having a conventional deep strike or HVT strike capability. That's the main reason Pakistan is further developing/upgrading on the Fatah series.

3) PAF needed similar conventional strike capability in the form of air launched cruise missiles and therefore, Taimoor was the answer because Ra'ad can't fill that role being nuclear capable.

4) The CDF will oversee all three services of the military, integrate and plan joint ops and warfighting as well pooling of resources. For that role the CDF will have the Army's Rocket Force and its conventional precision guided rocket artillery, PAF's own ALCM such as Taimoor including various other air launched munitions and finally Navy's ship launched missiles like SMASH etc.

5) There is still the question of output and industrial capacity as users have pointed out because Pakistan is seriously lacking in that space and how much missiles will Pakistan be able to produce in its arsenal.

6) There is also the debate on why Pakistan doesn't produce or procure supersonic missiles just like Indian Brahmos to achieve parity on that variant.

Anything I missed, feel free to add more.

 

[AeronautIR]

I made it very clear - I meant everyone.
And the opposite is people have egos for things that matter little.

Everyone can get into a cussing match online - welcome to -
Ive seen real world fights over "put my hand on my car".

But in Pakistan especially, I have rarely ever seen people say "I think you misunderstood" Or "I dont agree with you, you cannot convince me"

And move on. Qaumi problem.

Honestly, I have myself seen enough such uncles, so I try not to be one. I tend to continue a debate for better understanding of what's being said.

I haven't resorted to cussing in any post and will move on now from their jibes. But this kind of debate is definitely new for me, where you have to agree with them or will be labeled a stubborn ignorant officer.

 

[Psyko70]

I disagree. This is not scalp. Second, we can't penetrate Indian air defence with subsonic missiles. These systems are giving enough time to Indian interceptors to intercept. Less time, more damage. More time, zero damage.

What are you disagreeing to apart from This is not scalp, you are same thing as I said. its subsonic ALCM is main issue giving time for enemy to react.

I think you mean you disagree to part "This is not scalp".

I am fast learner. I want to know about scalp that it is better then Raad 2 or taimoor.

 

[SoulSpokesman]

@arsalan345

Point taken, Arsalan bhai. You need to build hypersonic missiles and in very large numbers.

Regards

 

[AeronautIR]

I think, it’s not (just) HAL we should focus on. I mean there is a whole ecosystem that the have developed.

I mean look at L&T, Bharat Forge and beyond maybe half a dozen of such gigantic engineering and manufacturing setups, they have developed newer supply chain at all levels.

This was done by tech transfer and off take contracts with private sector which were in business of car parts manufacturing, metal fab, etc.

L&T was founded in 1946 and I have already said that India is far ahead in it all. My point was that it goes beyond that. Car industry, BECO/PECO story, nationalization and many more examples of poor decision-making by all our departments.

Simply put, a comparison should be done with all factors. We all agree Pakistan needs industry. Lastly, let's just imagine for a second we are not thinking about India from perspective of Pakistan. Compare the time and resources spent by them versus production quantity/quality. HAL was just an example.

 

[Michael]

On January 5, 2026, a PLAAF air patrol formation traveled to the Miyako Strait, triggering a high level of alert in Japan. The air patrol formation consisted of multiple bombers, early warning aircraft, intelligence gathering aircraft, and fighter jets.

Among them, the H-6 bomber carries the AKD-20A long-range cruise missile.

============================================================
The AKD-20A is the air-launched version of the CJ-20 cruise missile equipped by the PLARF.
Length: 8.3 meters
Diameter: 650 mm
Weight: Approximately 2 tons
Cruising altitude: 30-50 meters
Cruising speed: 0.65 Mach

Range depends on the warhead.
500kg conventional high-explosive warhead: 1500 km
Special warheads: 2500 km (350kg anti-runway cluster warhead, 330kg bunker-busting warhead, 320kg EMP warhead, etc.)
============================================================
This missile technology is very mature and does not possess a high degree of technical sensitivity. However, due to its long range, China will not export this missile.

Nevertheless, Pakistan could explore technical cooperation or technology transfer at the subsystem level, which could then be applied to the development of its own cruise missiles.
For example, the technology behind certain types of special warheads......