Pakistan-India Conflict 2025: News Updates and Discussion

[Master Chief]

Trump knows, if Ind breaks, Russia breaks as well, economically!

thats the American dilemma here

China needs Russia so, this 3 body problem will continue for a long time

Nice to see you back sir!

 

[Master Chief]

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Wtf did he just say? Somebody make this riddle make sense.

One of his few intelligible statements was "we have our backs to Pakistan".

Yes General Chauhan saar, this is exactly why you lost multiple aircraft saar (number does not matter as per your previous statement so we will just refer to them as "multiple") and you will lose an aircraft carrier next time.

Edit: does seem AI the more I look at it. Makes no sense at all.

 

[flyingorca]

I should have created a new thread on this.

Debris Raises Unanswered Questions Over Meteor Missile Activity - idrw.org

SOURCE: AFI Open-source intelligence (OSINT) communities have, in recent days, focused attention on a fragment recovered near...

idrw.org

 

[rafale]

One thought is that because IAF doesn’t implement in systems of systems that well the way the PAF showed up was at edge of meteor employment envelope and when they went live and fired standoff weapons their attempts to push in were met with missile launches.

Think about it - why do this entire op with nearly every Rafale you had knowing the adversary out sticks you on everything you have?
They brought the meteor, had a plan and it turned out the PL-15’s actual max range is greater than the Meteor’s actual range. It is even possible that the meteor’s employment envelope isn’t what it’s made out to be.

Well, regarding the actual specs of Meteor, we can agree fully that there is no test or real test that validates whatever specs MBDA claims on Meteor.....and another one is how limited Meteor is by range of RBE-2 and data link. In either case, PL15s were clearly longer ranged and also be able to be guided all the way to target. So that's French technology failing.

There are ways that Pakistan can get accurate spec on Meteors from other nations operating it, but zero chance India can get real time data on PL15 since the only user is PAF and PLAAF. So having Chinese weapons is a good grace afterall for PAF.

Next, even if they were flying in Rafales as strike and escort, this is literally what they advertise that Rafale is omnirole, you can fly into enemy territory in a bubble of whatever ridiculous capability that SPECRA provides and you can also knock out enemy jets simultaneously using MICA or Meteor. Clearly Indians bought into the brochure without understanding the limitations you are up against.

They seem to be making the same mistake again by ordering 114 rafales....but they really don't have a choice. If they don't order, it just shows them admitting that Rafale was a fail acquisition in terms of changing landscape that China will define.....plus they really have no other alternate. For the first time in 40 years, IAF seems to be really really lagging behind in AA effectiveness.........and the only real choice they have left is striking with SOWs.

 

[Khanivore]

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[Oscar]

Well, regarding the actual specs of Meteor, we can agree fully that there is no test or real test that validates whatever specs MBDA claims on Meteor.....and another one is how limited Meteor is by range of RBE-2 and data link. In either case, PL15s were clearly longer ranged and also be able to be guided all the way to target. So that's French technology failing.

There are ways that Pakistan can get accurate spec on Meteors from other nations operating it, but zero chance India can get real time data on PL15 since the only user is PAF and PLAAF. So having Chinese weapons is a good grace afterall for PAF.

Next, even if they were flying in Rafales as strike and escort, this is literally what they advertise that Rafale is omnirole, you can fly into enemy territory in a bubble of whatever ridiculous capability that SPECRA provides and you can also knock out enemy jets simultaneously using MICA or Meteor. Clearly Indians bought into the brochure without understanding the limitations you are up against.

They seem to be making the same mistake again by ordering 114 rafales....but they really don't have a choice. If they don't order, it just shows them admitting that Rafale was a fail acquisition in terms of changing landscape that China will define.....plus they really have no other alternate. For the first time in 40 years, IAF seems to be really really lagging behind in AA effectiveness.........and the only real choice they have left is striking with SOWs.

They have a PL-15 or two somewhat intact so they can infer motor burn time and so on from it.
It would take sheer genius but not impossible to be able to power up the electronics as well if not burnt out but they will see components used, try to guess what makes it tick etc and then others will try to look at it.

 

[Ibbi32]

They have a PL-15 or two somewhat intact so they can infer motor burn time and so on from it.
It would take sheer genius but not impossible to be able to power up the electronics as well if not burnt out but they will see components used, try to guess what makes it tick etc and then others will try to look at it.

Theres a theory that the reason indians failed so badly against pl-15 is because their RWRs had no data about its seeker signature and so couldn’t detect it? How true is this and could in any way indians come up with any jammers or update their rwrs against pl-15

 

[Oscar]

Theres a theory that the reason indians failed so badly against pl-15 is because their RWRs had no data about its seeker signature and so couldn’t detect it? How true is this and could in any way indians come up with any jammers or update their rwrs against pl-15

Kudos to them for being so ignorant of this.

But they will update it well - so now kills wont be that easy.

 

[Mighty_Dragon_Strike]

They have a PL-15 or two somewhat intact so they can infer motor burn time and so on from it.
It would take sheer genius but not impossible to be able to power up the electronics as well if not burnt out but they will see components used, try to guess what makes it tick etc and then others will try to look at it.

only means, Indians will take years to catch up!
(try not to laugh!)

 

[Corax]

Theres a theory that the reason indians failed so badly against pl-15 is because their RWRs had no data about its seeker signature and so couldn’t detect it? How true is this and could in any way indians come up with any jammers or update their rwrs against pl-15

Even if the RWRs were not activated, the MAWS should have detected the incoming PL15s, unless of course they had already spent their motors and were coasting.

 

[Ibbi32]

Kudos to them for being so ignorant of this.

But they will update it well - so now kills wont be that easy.

I think its mostly because theres simply no widely accessible data. There would be lots of data about aim-120 or r-77 on Israeli or european rwr on su-30 or rafale,as well as general data about western and russian families of AAM for last 70 years of development. However china developed its AAMs mostly independently and for pl-15 for example its a recent development that even Pakistan was given to access very recently

 

[Oscar]

only means, Indians will take years to catch up!
(try not to laugh!)

Underestimate them at your peril.

 

[hasssanali8998]

I should have created a new thread on this.

Debris Raises Unanswered Questions Over Meteor Missile Activity - idrw.org

SOURCE: AFI Open-source intelligence (OSINT) communities have, in recent days, focused attention on a fragment recovered near...

idrw.org

damn raw coming after you nigga run and hide

 

[rafale]

Kudos to them for being so ignorant of this.

But they will update it well - so now kills wont be that easy.

and what if the seeker is updated again?

And doesn't AESA seeker change frequencies enough that getting accurate fix on incoming threat will always be like one step behind?

 

[Oscar]

Well, regarding the actual specs of Meteor, we can agree fully that there is no test or real test that validates whatever specs MBDA claims on Meteor.....and another one is how limited Meteor is by range of RBE-2 and data link. In either case, PL15s were clearly longer ranged and also be able to be guided all the way to target. So that's French technology failing.

There are ways that Pakistan can get accurate spec on Meteors from other nations operating it, but zero chance India can get real time data on PL15 since the only user is PAF and PLAAF. So having Chinese weapons is a good grace afterall for PAF.

Next, even if they were flying in Rafales as strike and escort, this is literally what they advertise that Rafale is omnirole, you can fly into enemy territory in a bubble of whatever ridiculous capability that SPECRA provides and you can also knock out enemy jets simultaneously using MICA or Meteor. Clearly Indians bought into the brochure without understanding the limitations you are up against.

They seem to be making the same mistake again by ordering 114 rafales....but they really don't have a choice. If they don't order, it just shows them admitting that Rafale was a fail acquisition in terms of changing landscape that China will define.....plus they really have no other alternate. For the first time in 40 years, IAF seems to be really really lagging behind in AA effectiveness.........and the only real choice they have left is striking with SOWs.

The best way to put this into an analogy - here is my AI generated one:

Company A thought it had cracked the code. They’d landed a star, the industry’s Rafale. You know the type. Decorated résumé, top-tier references, invited to panels just to talk about “deal velocity.” Everyone is going "He is the best, we are the best, the best will be bestier"

Day One arrives. The rep signs in, gets a laptop, a link to “Sales Enablement Materials,” and a cautious smile from HR. Inside the folder? A four-slide deck with a sentence that says “Drive strategic growth through relationships.” No data. No map. No explanation of who owns what territory.

By week two, the Rafale’s flying blind. CRM access still pending. Pipeline reports lag by two months. Marketing’s gone dark. Every conversation begins with, “Who handles that?” It’s the corporate version of a combat sortie without radar or satellite intel. You can’t win skirmishes when you don’t even know where the front line is.

Management, of course, stares from a distance. “He’s a senior resource,” someone says, “He’ll improvise.” It’s always astonishing how people who’ve never flown assume the cockpit runs on motivation.

Meanwhile, across town, Company B quietly inducts a younger rep — the J-10. Modest background, decent track record, not an awards magnet. What Company B lacks in headline talent, it makes up for in systems. Structured onboarding. Cross-department syncs. Battle-tested playbooks. A CRM so clean you could eat off it. They even run mock calls to simulate objections.

The J-10 learns fast, knows who to call, and how the whole organism breathes. Within three months, the rep’s closing confidently, looping in marketing, operations, and leadership without begging for clarity.

By midyear, the J-10’s delivering air superiority, and the Rafale’s still grounded waiting for an “updated customer segmentation file.”

And here’s the tragic comedy: Company A will hold another review meeting to ask why the expensive hire didn’t perform. They’ll analyze “mindset” and “fit” while ignoring the obvious — you can’t deploy precision hardware on a chaotic network.

Systems matter. Infrastructure wins. A thousand pilot stories end the same way — brave soul, bad comms, wrong map.

You want performance? Build the control tower before you bring in the fighters.