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[r3alist]

Strategic restraint during economic scaling is not delusion, it’s a deliberate choice made by every successful rising powers, including the US and China in their respective growth phases

You're going to be having strategic restraint indefinitely lol the world is changing did I tell you that?

In what parallel universe do you imagine India being able to make quantum leaps in it military whilst China is leading quantum computing.

The gap is already enormous, and of course when there are disparities with your rival that you admittedly cannot confront

The idea that South Asia has “turned against” India is overstated. India remains the region’s dominant economic partner and security provider, from disaster relief to maritime security, while most neighbouring frictions are structural, not the result of Indian “weakness.” Bangladesh, in particular, is economically intertwined with India to a degree that makes the “new front” narrative more speculative than strategic.

You do not have any major authority in South Asia, that has to be inherently considered a failing position. The Bangladesh prime minister was removed and India was a bystander.

Pakistan “improving” does not alter the fundamental asymmetry in economic depth, defence industrial base, or diplomatic reach. As for Turkey and China “filling the void,” China’s presence is transactional and debt-driven, not stabilising, while Turkey’s influence is episodic and ideological and doesn’t have depth due to Turkey’s own limitations in reach and scale.

This economic asymmetry has been there from day one, the only difference now is Pakistan is better placed with strong allies who can supplement their military capability to remain cutting edge with much more ease, to supplement what is already there

Turkey has had growing influence for ages, you are just waking up to it, the fact that they have ingressed is again a shunning of India and it's current dispensation.

Let's not even discuss China

Strength isn’t proven by constant escalation, it’s proven by the ability to absorb pressure without derailing long term objectives

That's a defensive type of resilience, and it really depends are you now saying India is not a major nation because that is the conclusion, if you are absorbing that means someone is attacking you.
So then do we pretend India is not the major power but needs breathing space



This could go around in circles forever, if tariffs were a non-event then why complain about them

 

[Vkdindian1]

This could go around in circles forever, if tariffs were a non-event then why complain about them

Yes. You have come back with same argument. India is going down and Pakistan is a rising star. If that makes you sleep tight then, it’s time to agree to disagree.

Tariff is not a non-event. But it is not as big as is being made out. It is not a survival situation that many of you are trying to fan.

 

[r3alist]

Yes. You have come back with same argument. India is going down and Pakistan is a rising star. If that makes you sleep tight then, it’s time to agree to disagree.

Tariff is not a non-event. But it is not as big as is being made out. It is not a survival situation that many of you are trying to fan.

If you have to resort to straw man arguments then of course you condemn your own bluster.

No one is saying India is about to implode, it seems like the prevailing situation is so stark that there is some cognitive dissonance to accept the challenges.

Did I mention the world has changed?

There is no longer any strategic altruism which India benefited from, I am slightly surprised at the lack of confidence you have in your own hard power.

 

[Vkdindian1]

If you have to resort to straw man arguments then of course you condemn your own bluster.

No one is saying India is about to implode, it seems like the prevailing situation is so stark that there is some cognitive dissonance to accept the challenges.

Did I mention the world has changed?

There is no longer any strategic altruism which India benefited from, I am slightly surprised at the lack of confidence you have in your own hard power.

Calling this a “straw man” doesn’t make it one. The issue isn’t whether India is about to implode, no serious observer claims that, but whether the challenges are being selectively framed to imply strategic fragility where there is none. Acknowledging constraints is not cognitive dissonance, it is how mature states operate in a changing world.

Yes, the world has changed and India has adapted accordingly, shifting from reliance on presumed altruism to an explicit emphasis on self interest, deterrence, and hard power. Interpreting this realism as a lack of confidence is ironic, because India’s growing willingness to act unilaterally, absorb costs, and assert red lines is precisely evidence of confidence in its hard power, not the absence of it.

 

[r3alist]

Calling this a “straw man” doesn’t make it one. T

It does make sense because I didn't really raise that specific point

Acknowledging constraints is not cognitive dissonance

This is precisely what you are not doing, not acknowledging your environment. So for example Turkey is a transient influence, how do they get to be any site of influence to begin with? You won't go there

shifting from reliance on presumed altruism to an explicit emphasis on self interest, deterrence, and hard power

A word salad simply reiterating basic truisms of what countries should do.

because India’s growing willingness to act unilaterally, absorb costs, and assert red lines is precisely evidence of confi

The hard power would be not to absorb costs on a country you insist is so weak and poor. That is denial of hard power.

Remember you insist that the economy will lead to overwhelming military power, but you have had this from day one, and never has the economic disparity been so favorable yet the military result was a fail.

Then let's not even bother trying to compare you to China

 

[Vkdindian1]

Remember you insist that the economy will lead to overwhelming military power, but you have had this from day one, and never has the economic disparity been so favorable yet the military result was a fail.

Then let's not even bother trying to compare you to China

Overwhelming? Why is that? Military power is military power. Where does overwhelming come from?

You are now derailing the thread by bringing military into it again and again while trying to flame bait.
In the last big war in the region we divided a nation into two. Kargil and Siachen may be better for you to keep quiet. The May 25, I have stated my view and you are trying to flame bait in derailing this thread. Cute attempt.

 

[Thinking]

Calling this a “straw man” doesn’t make it one. The issue isn’t whether India is about to implode, no serious observer claims that, but whether the challenges are being selectively framed to imply strategic fragility where there is none. Acknowledging constraints is not cognitive dissonance, it is how mature states operate in a changing world.

Yes, the world has changed and India has adapted accordingly, shifting from reliance on presumed altruism to an explicit emphasis on self interest, deterrence, and hard power. Interpreting this realism as a lack of confidence is ironic, because India’s growing willingness to act unilaterally, absorb costs, and assert red lines is precisely evidence of confidence in its hard power, not the absence of it.

Thing is these people actually believe US has transferred or invested 100s of billions (or even trillions) in India when in reality, it has invested next to nothing. India's biggest investors are Japan, SK etc. Hell, India has received more from China!
They also believe US is doing some magical technology transfer though none can name one for their life! India is a tech midget nation! No tech worth mentioning and yet they keep insisting! Some go as for as to cite "weapons" as example of tech transfers! Funny enough, not only everything is paid with top dollars, everything American made is at best "support"!

As for as milking America for "H1B" or remittance, everyone is doing it! That is not favor to India. Hell, highest remittance comes from Middle east! Yet, you keep hearing about "geopolitical realignment" and "losing investment and favor" or some other bs!

We are indeed losing a big export market due to tariffs and India is already doing all to mitigate dependence on America. Many FTAs already signed plus mega EU FTA is coming this year. Likely more FTAs in coming future from nations like Canada etc..This is what Modi government intends to do. A short term damage but a long term solution. And this is also forcing government to go on reform drive. All in all, we should be thanking Trump for this!

P.S:

India, Australia invited to G7 meeting on critical minerals, Bessent says

U.S. Treasury Secretary Scott Bessent will host finance ministers from G7 nations and invited countries like Australia to discuss critical minerals. The meeting aims to secure supply chains and reduce dependence on China, which dominates the refining of essential minerals. This comes amid...

economictimes.indiatimes.com

yeah, they remember India suddenly. All we need is tech and Japan is helping there. We have 3rd highest reserve in world for light rare metals!

 

[Vikramaditya1]

Just because the impact has been absorbed by India in the short-term doesnt mean the American actions are inconsequential. The Modi government can't keep cutting taxes and throwing money at exporters forever. While economic growth and exports have held up, financial markets, which are forward looking, tell a different story. The Indian currency has underperformed significantly and so has the stock market, in constant dollars terms. There is a reason why the Indian government wants to get a "good deal" soon and is trying to manage the Russian oil import issue without losing face and looking weak domestically.

What you mean short term? It's been months lol! The reality is that India is not a major electronics and merchandise exporter like China so Indian goods landing in America are mostly services that are in essence a software as a service. The exposure although significant was reduced and Indian exporters rerouted those goods elsewhere. So our merchandise exports to Africa, Europe, ME, LatAm and other Asians increased while the US decreased.

Indian currency is fine as long as our domestic inflation don't go up which it didn't. Our inflation is one of the lowest, growth rate the highest, which is the exact Sweet spot one wants to be.

 

[r3alist]

Overwhelming? Why is that? Military power is military power. Where does overwhelming come from?

You are now derailing the thread by bringing military into it again and again while trying to flame bait.
In the last big war in the region we divided a nation into two. Kargil and Siachen may be better for you to keep quiet. The May 25, I have stated my view and you are trying to flame bait in derailing this thread. Cute attempt.

But last year you already had a huge economic gap with Pakistan yet the military outcome nowhere near reflected the economic disparity, so what exactly is your delusion on economic growth without credible military abilities. You contradict your own logic, the huge economic difference counted for nothing much really, there is no inevitability that economic growth will lead to hard power military with India, maybe other nations

Military affairs really are quite Central to things happening in the world right now

 

[Thinking]

What you mean short term? It's been months lol! The reality is that India is not a major electronics and merchandise exporter like China so Indian goods landing in America are mostly services that are in essence a software as a service. The exposure although significant was reduced and Indian exporters rerouted those goods elsewhere. So our merchandise exports to Africa, Europe, ME, LatAm and other Asians increased while the US decreased.

Indian currency is fine as long as our domestic inflation don't go up which it didn't. Our inflation is one of the lowest, growth rate the highest, which is the exact Sweet spot one wants to be.

It's wrecking my investments but I can live with that. Weak rupees is good for export if supported by sound economic policies.

 

[SoulSpokesman]

@r3alist bro

There is no longer any strategic altruism which India benefited from,

There never was any strategic altruism to begin with

Remember you insist that the economy will lead to overwhelming military power,

This is certainly NOT applicable for India. It never has been. It wasn't in ancient world, not in medieval era and not now. IND will never be a meaningful military power. And honestly, I am very good with it!

Regards

 

[r3alist]

They also believe US is doing some magical technology transfer though none can name one for their life

No one is saying that, what people are saying is what Indians themselves are saying that they would like more technology from the States

As for as milking America for "H1B" or remittance, everyone is doing it

India is doing it by far the most, let's not digress here

That is not favor to India

I think you will find now it is seen as a favor.

 

[r3alist]

There never was any strategic altruism to begin with

Well this is a matter of diverging perceptions, the current American consensus is that they gave India certain soft treatment, the Russian oil imports being an example. And that is fair enough, it is a card they could have used sooner on India and is something against American interests, so if they overlooked this for a period then that is indeed altruism. You could say the same for the s400 purchase, which again America overlooked, these are just some examples of relative altruism

This is certainly NOT applicable for India. It never has been. It wasn't in ancient world, not in medieval era and not now. IND will never be a meaningful military power. And honestly, I am very good with it!

Well that is a perilous position to be in

 

[Vikramaditya1]

These are just non-sequiters, you do ask for technology from America, you do need engines provided, and you are setting yourself up for ridicule if you say they are in consequential to India. What about visas and then anytime they entertain the idea of Pakistan, this completely dominates the Indian news cycle and psyche.

The entire thought process of Pakistanis are skewed towards military and security. Someone mentioned comments made by Indian generals about economy. You're arguing about jet engines def tech America shares. Americans are in fact pushing sales of their planes and India is constantly been averse to it. If we dropped S400 we could've had F35 flying. But is that a major talking point? No. We hardly hear about these American MIC talks. You like to believe we are losing sleep over what Pakistan is doing but you don't even occupy even 10% of our news cycle. You on the other hand is constantly reading into what that 10% say and extrapolate it to the rest 90%.

 

[Vikramaditya1]

It's wrecking my investments but I can live with that. Weak rupees is good for export if supported by sound economic policies.

I outperformes the stocks, mine are 19% up since last year. But from my point, Indian stocks been overvalued especially during COVID. It's good we are back down from cloud 9.