JF-17 - Updates, News & Discussion

[Psyko70]

Did you just Made up this scenario with Chat GPT.

Seriously lol. What do you think JF-17 is wunderwaffe. It's a cheap light fighter with cheap off the shelf aesa. It's goal is literally to replace 3rd Gen figters without breaking bank.
You talking F-15SA takes time to replace.
Ironically PAF have no money as of now to order more JF-17 Blk 3.
You're ignoring the fact that wealthy countries tend to use F-15s and they happen to afford some of the most capable enablers in the world.

Me chalo ignore ke lena Ae radar clutter train masking wali gal bahr 4 bndya vich betha na krein boht bezti honi.

And good night it's going to be a very hectic day at work.

Yes I used chatgpt and I dont mind it when I need to explain things that are difficult for me write down. why is is it bad using chatgpt ?

Plus, you are in public forum and its discussion platform have some respect for members. Meri koi besti nai honi as I assess all scenarios. As per you a poor country has no right to fight then because it will be "skull ...".

Wasted my time thinking a reasonable and logical discussion was possible.

 

[Psyko70]

I am very confused where the JF-17 is supposed to compete with the 15SA? It is heavily outmatched in pretty much every regard except perhaps in certain parts of the WVR curve but that is moot considering 9x or even potentially PL-10 for JF-17s.

BVR the eagle will whomp JF-17s like baby seals but that depends on the stick aspect.
If the block-3 comes with PL-15 and paired with a good network. But at the end the larger aircraft with more missiles even if shorter ranged has a good chance because it can take lower PK but more shots versus the limited carrying capacity of a Block-3.

Be glad the fellows in Pakistan's east still haven't figured that out or how to even use such tactics beyond their academic publications.

Hello sir,

Of course you are right about it. However, I am talking about KSA with JF17 is logical and beneficial in long term. JF17 wont be useless for KSA. KSA is fielding advance weaponry but in case of war with its neighbours f15 supply and sanctions might not be favorable in long term. JF17 provides adequate fighting capability and has benefits if fielded with awacs.

"If the block-3 comes with PL-15 and paired with a good network." yes jf17 will come with pl15 and awacs as well. That is a good plus. in DEAD role it can be beneficial and a pack hunter as well.

 

[Oscar]

Yes I used chatgpt and I dont mind it when I need to explain things that are difficult for me write down. why is is it bad using chatgpt ?

Plus, you are in public forum and its discussion platform have some respect for members. Meri koi besti nai honi as I assess all scenarios. As per you a poor country has no right to fight then because it will be "skull ...".

Wasted my time thinking a reasonable and logical discussion was possible.

Your assertion was invalid to begin with - JF-17 is not doing any replacement of SA nor is a comparable aircraft.

Primarily if you look at studies at ACEVAL/ AIMVAL from the 80s these were done by pushing in smaller fighters with all aspect missiles against larger aircraft with BVR.
The result was that using numbers and tactics the smaller aircraft will prevail.

The same could be said for the JF-17 if paired with AEW where it can set up scenarios for winning against a superior aircraft but at the same time the other aircraft if flown by trained pilots will look to focus on its strengths.

However, put equal pilots in both jets 1v1 and a F-15SA with AIM-120Cs( lets say 6 of them) as a better chance of winning versus a JF-17 with PL-15s(2x).

 

[Psyko70]

Your assertion was invalid to begin with - JF-17 is not doing any replacement of SA nor is a comparable aircraft.

Primarily if you look at studies at ACEVAL/ AIMVAL from the 80s these were done by pushing in smaller fighters with all aspect missiles against larger aircraft with BVR.
The result was that using numbers and tactics the smaller aircraft will prevail.

The same could be said for the JF-17 if paired with AEW where it can set up scenarios for winning against a superior aircraft but at the same time the other aircraft if flown by trained pilots will look to focus on its strengths.

However, put equal pilots in both jets 1v1 and a F-15SA with AIM-120Cs( lets say 6 of them) as a better chance of winning versus a JF-17 with PL-15s(2x).

Yes sir I know. I never said replacement I am been misunderstood by members. I am just noting benefits of jf17 as it has vast roles for use.

I was comparing it against f15SA not directly but in a way that it has perks. Its capable to last a fight with favorable impression.

 

[Metal 0-1]

I am very confused where the JF-17 is supposed to compete with the 15SA? It is heavily outmatched in pretty much every regard except perhaps in certain parts of the WVR curve but that is moot considering 9x or even potentially PL-10 for JF-17s.

BVR the eagle will whomp JF-17s like baby seals but that depends on the stick aspect.
If the block-3 comes with PL-15 and paired with a good network. But at the end the larger aircraft with more missiles even if shorter ranged has a good chance because it can take lower PK but more shots versus the limited carrying capacity of a Block-3.

Be glad the fellows in Pakistan's east still haven't figured that out or how to even use such tactics beyond their academic publications.

Exactly JF-17 need enablers and numbers to survive

 

[Psyko70]

Your assertion was invalid to begin with - JF-17 is not doing any replacement of SA nor is a comparable aircraft.

Primarily if you look at studies at ACEVAL/ AIMVAL from the 80s these were done by pushing in smaller fighters with all aspect missiles against larger aircraft with BVR.
The result was that using numbers and tactics the smaller aircraft will prevail.

The same could be said for the JF-17 if paired with AEW where it can set up scenarios for winning against a superior aircraft but at the same time the other aircraft if flown by trained pilots will look to focus on its strengths.

However, put equal pilots in both jets 1v1 and a F-15SA with AIM-120Cs( lets say 6 of them) as a better chance of winning versus a JF-17 with PL-15s(2x).

Where JF-17 Block III STRUGGLES
1. High-altitude, long-range BVR

2. F-15SA radar + IRST sees first
More missiles
Better energy retention

3. 1v1 clean intercept
F-15SA designed to win these

4. Against F-15SA with AWACS dominance
Situational awareness gap widens

Sir I have mentioned here. As you can see. My posts were not read by the member completely I guess. I have also iterated that in packs it can do that. so If it has some ifs where it can go against f15 like fighter than KSA should field them in numbers for sanction free cheap fighter.

 

[Khansaheeb]

JF17 is sky rocketing in sales:

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[Khanivore]

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[lightning f57]

Another thing to add, not since the 70s/80s have we had a real "lightweight" fighter.

F-16, Gripen, Mirage 2000 and MIG-29 were more medium. No real true successor to F-5 and MIG-21/F-7 ever really materialised.

JF-17 is that plane.

Also Jf17 block 4 with stealth feature is must

Ok so lets play along for now with all these news reports of possible JF17 sales, I wonder can Pak integrate their and other weapons onto the Thunders or need approval from the Chinese? Because this could be a big selling point or not.

Likewise if Pak did work on a JX program and replicate the JF17 model, shared production with China/Turkey/ other friendly nation who is not restricting use of other weapons and kits from other countries it makes the jets more attractive as your not locked into a single ecosystem. Operators of JF17 then could transition to Iran 5th Gen version later.

I hope Pak is doing some long term planning to make any future project financial viable and sustainable.

 

[Khanivore]

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[Oscar]

Sir I have mentioned here. As you can see. My posts were not read by the member completely I guess. I have also iterated that in packs it can do that. so If it has some ifs where it can go against f15 like fighter than KSA should field them in numbers for sanction free cheap fighter.

That is the wrong question to ask and also perhaps best left to the Saudi specific JF-17 thread.
How about considering where RSAF will (if they "buy" them) deploy them?
What squadrons will be raised? Manned by whom? Where?

 

[Psyko70]

That is the wrong question to ask and also perhaps best left to the Saudi specific JF-17 thread.
How about considering where RSAF will (if they "buy" them) deploy them?
What squadrons will be raised? Manned by whom? Where

In my book it is write question and rest of questions you mentioned are also correct.

I definitely dont have answer for all of questions.

However,

In case of war. Ksa will be in weak position if ksa is fighting against the enemy that affects us interest or is ally to us. Then those f15 will show the shortcoming.
Jf17 wont. I Imagine ksa going against israel or other us interests with f15 and I dont see the advantage as enemy might be able to via us make them not do much.

 

[Oscar]

In my book it is write question and rest of questions you mentioned are also correct.

I definitely dont have answer for all of questions.

However,

In case of war. Ksa will be in weak position if ksa is fighting against the enemy that affects us interest or is ally to us. Then those f15 will show the shortcoming.
Jf17 wont. I Imagine ksa going against israel or other us interests with f15 and I dont see the advantage as enemy might be able to via us make them not do much.

That is a false assumption.
1. KSA may not ever be in conflict with Israel other than a far shot situation where Israel uses KSA airspace for a strike(as a show of force for regional messaging).

2. F-15s being used against Israel might have certain compromising situation but that doesnt mean they will be sitting ducks either. They also have Typhoons which you are discounting just because I think you want to hate on US equipment.

 

[Khanivore]

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[Cipher212]

Have you compared the specs of F-15E Strike Eagle radar even though it's Pulse Doppler but that thing is massive and will detect JF-17 and launch slammers way before JF-17 detects F-15E
APG-82(V)1 outclasses KLJ-7A in range, resolution, tracking capacity, EW resistance, and multitasking by a wide margin.

Was not expecting Saudis to have the full spec F-15E derived radars. Thought they'd be flying monkey models with the old pulse doppler radars.

Hence proved, capability of Arab Airforce is inversely proportional to its threat level towards Israel. This is known as Ghulam's Law