Iranian Navy | News and Discussions

[Flotilla]

Fateh 2 is under trials and Fateh 3 and 4 are supposedly under construction

Have we any visual proof of a second Fateh?. We have seen a pressure hull at ISOICO, but AFAIK no fitting out the vessel.

Anyway I agree that more Fateh are needed. Any hyphotetical second and third submarine should be for refinning propulsion, sensors and livability (that last it is very important for long endurance missions) and a fourth could be a transitional ship for any new series (bigger and AIPs and even VLS for cruise/ballistic missiles). But it is too soon to talk about even third submarine. I am very dissapointed about the last member of Moudge family. The pace of navy construction it is simply unacceptable. And I am afraid navy submarines will follow same trend.

 

[Flotilla]

View attachment 24020

The new equipment in Sahand remarks the limit on the design of the Moudge family.
Missile launcher canisters are in a very high position, as well as the search and guidance system of the Kamand CIWS. You can see at the back of the mast the IRIN have repositioned the IR/EO guidance for the Fajr 27.

Moreover the illuminator radar for the Sayyad missiles are in a very high position (that should be the reason for moving afterwards the Fajr 27 IR/EO firing sensor). The position of all four equipment elevates dangerously the gravity center and makes it not seaworthy for blue water and oceanic navigation (specially in a rough stormy seas like atlantic ocean). In contrast you can see the efforts over Deylaman for keeping as much as possible a low position gravity point, specially when you see superestructure being shorter than Mowj and Sahand exemples, leaving more free deck at bow and stern.

As I previously defended any further Moudge should be based on Deylaman standard. And it is imperative to develop any larger class, capable of fitting a VLS and a gas turbine (electricity generation it is the core of a modern warship, not only for long range sensors, but for directed energy weapons like lasers).

Anyway the overall aspect of the Sahand it is really impressive. IRIN fitted long range air defense missiles over a corvette sized warship!!!!!!. 8 medium range anti ship cruise missiles makes it really war-capable and Fajr 27, CIWS and even light torpedoes makes the military power even larger that some western navy ships (including the failed LCS frigates).

Please note that only after 5 or 6 years the Sahand have achieved a FOC (full operational capabilty) with longe range air defense missiles, CIWS firing systems and Fajr-27 fire direction system. It is really unnaceptable.

 

[Flotilla]

if we take the photo of the model you published as possible, it is clear where an 8 cell VLS was installed, here behind the 76/62 Fajr-27.
Then it is to be evaluated whether it is possible on the real ship.

Yeah, even for small Navab systems, that should give two different anti aerial layer defense system (Sayyad-3 for long range) and Navab for short range defense. But I am really exceptic about that seeing the slow path of developments.

 

[tsunset]

ask General Khanzadi who promised VLS on Moudge not me

Where is this claim?

 

[Persian Gulf]

Where is this claim?

sigh. from 2019 (5 years ago):

https://www.tehrantimes.com/news/442292/Iranian-Navy-installing-VLS-on-two-destroyers

“The operations to install VLS on Dena and Damavand destroyers are underway, and the systems will be tested in the near future,” Mehr quoted Khanzadi as saying.

Referring to remarks by Leader of the Islamic Revolution who has insisted on enhancing defense capabilities in all areas, including the strategic marine sector, the rear admiral said such developments will not be limited to Damavand and Dena.

“All Navy destroyers will be equipped with the same system in the future.”

VLS is an advanced system for holding and firing missiles on mobile naval platforms, such as surface ships and submarines.

 

[tsunset]

sigh. from 2019 (5 years ago):

https://www.tehrantimes.com/news/442292/Iranian-Navy-installing-VLS-on-two-destroyers

“The operations to install VLS on Dena and Damavand destroyers are underway, and the systems will be tested in the near future,” Mehr quoted Khanzadi as saying.

Referring to remarks by Leader of the Islamic Revolution who has insisted on enhancing defense capabilities in all areas, including the strategic marine sector, the rear admiral said such developments will not be limited to Damavand and Dena.

“All Navy destroyers will be equipped with the same system in the future.”

VLS is an advanced system for holding and firing missiles on mobile naval platforms, such as surface ships and submarines.

The operations to install VLS on Dena and Damavand destroyers are underway, and the systems will be tested in the near future,” Mehr quoted Khanzadi as saying

They figured out it wasn't possible and made the current Sayyad launcher, there isn't any promise on making VLS on them, something which is impossible to achieve unless a new design is produced

All Navy destroyers will be equipped with the same system in the future.

Then they will be equipped with what was unveiled

such developments will not be limited to Damavand and Dena.

We should expect current ships being fitted with that and all new designs fitted with it or VLS, the times of 4 Ghadir and a 1 cannon + 2 guns are over

 

[Persian Gulf]

"The operations to install VLS on Dena and Damavand destroyers are underway"

“All Navy destroyers [i.e. rest of Moudge class] will be equipped with the same system [VLS] in the future.” (2019)

idk what nonsense you wrote but this is quite clear

 

[Hack-Hook]

if we take the photo of the model you published as possible, it is clear where an 8 cell VLS was installed, here behind the 76/62 Fajr-27.
Then it is to be evaluated whether it is possible on the real ship.

depend , that area is reserved for fajr-27 Ammo storage and auto loader
now I only seen that area in a movie from iran-iraq war time and the cannon was an original Oto-Melara
under the cannon there is a chamber it contain auto loader at the center , around it a stairway to access the cannon, then around the room is ammo for cannon that by hand are loaded into the auto loader.
I knew the canon on the deck is just tip of iceberg and the facility to support it is a lot larger than what you see. now again i say , i don't knew the exact configuration for fajr-27 so if its ammo storage is more toward the front rather than around the chamber below then its a possibility

 

[tsunset]

"The operations to install VLS on Dena and Damavand destroyers are underway"

“All Navy destroyers [i.e. rest of Moudge class] will be equipped with the same system [VLS] in the future.” (2019)

idk what nonsense you wrote but this is quite clear

They figured out it wasn't possible and installed this instead, which nonsense? You take every word of Iran as a "promise"

 

[sahureka2]

depend , that area is reserved for fajr-27 Ammo storage and auto loader
now I only seen that area in a movie from iran-iraq war time and the cannon was an original Oto-Melara
under the cannon there is a chamber it contain auto loader at the center , around it a stairway to access the cannon, then around the room is ammo for cannon that by hand are loaded into the auto loader.
I knew the canon on the deck is just tip of iceberg and the facility to support it is a lot larger than what you see. now again i say , i don't knew the exact configuration for fajr-27 so if its ammo storage is more toward the front rather than around the chamber below then its a possibility

yes, true, but looking at the model of the ship, the VLS structure seems to be above deck, therefore it would not affect what is below the deck.
Now it would be necessary to evaluate whether the air defense missile in the video on the Twitter page I attach is compatible with the dimensions of that VLS structure

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[Hack-Hook]

yes, true, but looking at the model of the ship, the VLS structure seems to be above deck, therefore it would not affect what is below the deck.
Now it would be necessary to evaluate whether the air defense missile in the video on the Twitter page I attach is compatible with the dimensions of that VLS structure

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then they must be very short and wide missile

 

[Immortals]

Why wouldn't Iran use its nuclear program to make a nuclear powered submarine? Just aiming for it to be nuclear powered and capable of launching conventional and WMD ballistic missiles

That would require building a miniature nuclear reactor or engine with decaying nuclear matter on board. Easier said than done. And typically that’s for massive submarines.

Iran claimed years ago (maybe pre 2010) to have begun research into nuclear naval engines. Assuming 20 year r&d development path such a engine if it exists should appear sometime in 2030’s and be used to power future Iranian carriers and naval submarines.

 

[Immortals]

moving from 600 tons to 3000 tons makes no sense to me.

Makes perfect sense. The endurance of a 600 and 1200 ton submarine is low and mostly for PG waters. Not to mention the weapons package they carry is on the weaker side.

Iran is slowly trying to transition to a regional deeper water navy. That requires heavier submarines that can dive deeper and stay submerged longer with a SLBM capability.

if they take this long to build 600 ton Fateh

Fateh is a brand new design and it had design flaw in its first model. Basically when they did stress test dive depths during sea trials of intial model the hull took damage. That is all Iran has managed to say on the incident. Thus it had to go back to drawing board and redesign a hull with stronger materials.

and 1200-1500 ton Moudge class, I wonder how long they will take to build 3000 ton Besat and how outdated it will already be by then

Submarine technology doesn’t change that much. Hence why so many nuclear submarines are so old. A submarine can easily last 25 years with proper maintenance. Iran’s kilo subs are ~30 years old.

Typically submarines in Besat size take 7-10 years to build unless you are China and have massive naval shipyards.

Israel’s 3 new submarines that are successor class to Dolphin-II will take about 10 years to enter into service.

Thus I don’t expect to see Besat till 2030’s unless Iran started construction already.

 

[Immortals]

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[Hack-Hook]

Makes perfect sense. The endurance of a 600 and 1200 ton submarine is low and mostly for PG waters. Not to mention the weapons package they carry is on the weaker side.

Iran is slowly trying to transition to a regional deeper water navy. That requires heavier submarines that can dive deeper and stay submerged longer with a SLBM capability.

depend on your definition of low
a typr-209/1100 is a 1200ton submarine with endurance of 50 day and a surface range of 20000km and 15000km with snorkel and 700km completely submerged and only use battery also have a maximum depth of 500m
a type-206 is a 450 ton submarine with 31 day of endurance anda surface range of 8300km and 420km completely submerged and only use battery also have a maximum depth of 200+m

a 769 ton Norvegian k-class submarine can sail for 26900km and 232km submerged with help of batteries
french agosta class submarine have a range of 13000km
a 1500ton Swedish Gotland submarine is stated that can sail underwater for weeks , (in a war game in 2000 it managed to defeat Spanish naval unit then a french SSN and then a USA SSN, some month earlier the same sub remained undetected from all the vessels of NATO that participated in a war-game in mediteranean while in all of the war-game it was monitoring all the activities in 2005 another Gotland submarine in a war-game several round circled USS Ronald Reagan and then empty all of its torpedoes into it without the battle group could become aware of it's presence)

How One Tiny Swedish Submarine 'Sunk' a U.S. Aircraft Carrier

The fact that one could build or acquire three or four diesel submarines costing $500 to $800 million each for the price of a single nuclear submarine gives them undeniable appeal. Proponents argue that the United States could forward deploy diesel subs to bases in allied nations, without facing...

nationalinterest.org

so I won't hastily chalk out such submarines specially the ones that are more close to 1500t , they really can be dreadful, specially with modern AIP. they are the way to go , instead of 1 big submarine you'll have 4 smaller but more deadly submarine with several time the fire power. the doctrine of bigger is better is so cold war and is not in line with our asymmetric warfare doctrine