JF-17 - Updates, News & Discussion

[rafale]

Chairman Mao once said that when dealing with Third World countries, should not have a patronizing attitude. Don’t become a bad, arrogant middle-aged Chinese stereotype; Chinese people are not like that. This is a forum in Pakistan, and we are guests. According to traditional Chinese etiquette, we respect the hosts and should not casually critique the host while visiting.

brother, we are all here to discuss and learn. Michael adds good value to our discussions but also sometimes goes overboard. But please understand that most Pakistanis do not understand how Chinese state owned corporations or industrial giants work. How deals and business work. So we are all willing to learn more about it and that is where Chinese members can help us understand better.

 

[Trailer23]

Hey,
You must be 60 years old to call me to grow up.

@Dreamer very well may be 60 Years, as you have pointed, but with age comes wisdom & knowledge (gathered).

Ksa has multiple time revoked ties with qatar and israel relations are skeptic.

That remark is false. KSA (UAE, Bahrain and Egypt) cut ties once between 2017 & 2021. That all came to an end during the GCC Summit.

We muslims by never trust israel and so does ksa population.

...and yet you'd be surprised how many Muslim Nations recognise !srael and/or have Diplomatic Relations with them.

War can happen anytime and strategically f15 might have sanctions by us if these countries confront each other. Jf17, j10 and j31 for ksa should be future.

I'm not following what you're trying to convey.

How can we, or who are we to put Sanctions on F-15's of KSA?

Yes, WAR can happen anytime. Some of us have lived through it - and i'm not even referring to post 9/11 (War on Terror).

If you are under the illusion or delusion that KSA is interested in the JF-17, than i'll just repectfully tell you that you don't know what you're talking about and truly are a bit young.

This, "WE ARE MUSLIMS AND SHOULD STICK TOGTHER" stick is very cute in the form of a 'Nara'. But be practical and open your eyes. There are plenty of conflicts between brotherly nations - orchestrated by the West.

The chances of KSA opting for JF-17 & J-10's over F-15's & F-35 are just about same as Pakistan giving KSA a Loan.

Get a Reality Check & that is me being RESPECTFUL...

 

[Psyko70]

@Dreamer very well may be 60 Years, as you have pointed, but with age comes wisdom & knowledge (gathered).

That remark is false. KSA (UAE, Bahrain and Egypt) cut ties once between 2017 & 2021. That all came to an end during the GCC Summit.

...and yet you'd be surprised how many Muslim Nations recognise !srael and/or have Diplomatic Relations with them.

I'm not following what you're trying to convey.

How can we, or who are we to put Sanctions on F-15's of KSA?

Yes, WAR can happen anytime. Some of us have lived through it - and i'm not even referring to post 9/11 (War on Terror).

If you are under the illusion or delusion that KSA is interested in the JF-17, than i'll just repectfully tell you that you don't know what you're talking about and truly are a bit young.

This, "WE ARE MUSLIMS AND SHOULD STICK TOGTHER" stick is very cute in the form of a 'Nara'. But be practical and open your eyes. There are plenty of conflicts between brotherly nations - orchestrated by the West.

The chances of KSA opting for JF-17 & J-10's over F-15's & F-35 are just about same as Pakistan giving KSA a Loan.

Get a Reality Check & that is me being RESPECTFUL...

What I did to you? Why so much hate in tone ? Is defence forum only to bash others and insult others ? Did i started insulting someone or someone said something I defended it ? Show some humanity. That was not respectful it was just hate energy. Wisdom is when you discuss in peace and not use hateful speech to concey your thoughts.

That is not a reality check. the way tou talk then you have 0 concept of greater israel then.

Plus, israel is sworn enemy of islam and any country with muslim population is target of Israel. Even pakistan was once to be targetted by Israel for its nuke program. Maybe you need reality check. You are in ur own illusion or delusion to think that ksa wont face confrontation from israel in near future. Greater israel is threat for whole middle east and even turkey.

KSA will not always be in leadership that has ties with israel and when it comes to that usA will make sure to sanction usA produced armament bought by ksa. Why would I say f15 sanctions by pakistan its not even our product. You misunderstood.

Its KSA loss if they think sticking to america for armament is right choice.

Jf17 is right choice due to very strong ties of ksa and pakistan. A potent plane with vast variety of roles.

 

[AeronautIR]

I don't know if View attachment 172408 articles are considered as "Articles" at all. What is interesting are the comments by Members, that seem to vanish after 24hrs.

I took the liberty of taking a screenshot of the 9 Comments.

Clearly the individual who wrote this piece is frustrated that the JF-17 is getting so much attention by a number of Nations in less than a month and I suppose all that can be attributed to is the f-up of their: Operation Tandoor

I take it the Author is upset why no Nation (even a 3rd Class one like Armania and/or Philippines) is not interested in their TEJAs

How Pakistani-Origin Reporters Are Overselling the JF-17 Despite Its Poor Combat Record

View attachment 172409
Even their Ai-generated images suck (ass)​

View attachment 172410

Note: The Contents of the article aren't important as the Title itself is a dead give away. What's important are the views of some Indians that now coming to...

@RescueRanger @Oscar @AeronautIR @Areesh @Bilal @Dalit @Distant_Observer @Hakikat ve Hikmet @Maarkhoor @Master Chief @Mighty_Dragon_Strike @pwfi @r3alist @Reichmarshal @SiliconBit (silicon0000) @SteppeWolff @Starlord @TAC @TOPGUN @TopGun786 @Truth Seeker @UndercoverJIX @Vapnope @Vortex @Yasser76 @hasssanali8998

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[Psyko70]

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Very informative video. Learned some points from the video. Knowledge from pilots is always good hope we get more of his interviews.

I also hope our allies understand the value of jet that gives sanction free light fighter at low cost.

Maintenance friendly, low cost, vast capabilities is better than any fighter.

 

[Trailer23]

What I did to you?

For beginners... Poor Grammar, but that can be overlooked.

Why so much hate in tone ? Is defence forum only to bash others and insult others ? Did i started insulting someone or someone said something I defended it ? Show some humanity. That was not respectful it was just hate energy. Wisdom is when you discuss in peace and not use hateful speech to concey your thoughts.

Its not hate & it certainly isn't bashing or insulting. You may not have insulted anyone (directly), but you come off as someone that appears as a Door Salesman trying to sell the Islamic Fighter Jet against the Evil Jews better known as: !srael

You mentioned that KSA had multiple times revoked ties with Qatar. I respectfully corrected you.

You spoke about Muslim Nations being against one another, yet when I questioned if you were aware how many Muslim Nations recognised !srael - you did not get back on my answer. I'll give you a hint: Abraham Accords

That is not a reality check. the way tou talk then you have 0 concept of greater israel then.

Young man, I have a better understanding of "Greater Israel" - long before you were even concieved.

Plus, israel is sworn enemy of islam and any country with muslim population is target of Israel.

Great. Maybe you can put that on a Bumper Sticker & paste on Auto Rickshaws & Trucks all across Pakistan.

Even pakistan was once to be targetted by Israel for its nuke program.

Why thank you for that History lesson. I completely forgot that I actually lived through that era ...

You do know that "Greater Israel" only built the courage for that idea after: Operation Opera

You are in ur own illusion or delusion to think that ksa wont face confrontation from israel in near future. Greater israel is threat for whole middle east and even turkey.

KSA will not always be in leadership that has ties with israel and when it comes to that usA will make sure to sanction usA produced armament bought by ksa.

Okay Engineer Mirza...

Its KSA loss if they think sticking to america for armament is right choice.

You know..., I think its best we send you to KSA - to represent the Islamic Republic of Pakistan & the Islamic Brotherhood Nations

You are what the World has been waiting for this whole time.

Jf17 is right choice due to very strong ties of ksa and pakistan. A potent plane with vast variety of roles.

You know, even with your spelling errors - you'd be PERFECT for Pakistan Aeronautical Complex. Their brochures are already full of spelling mistakes. Atleast you can give them some new material to promote this "potent plane with vast variety of roles"

 

[Psyko70]

For beginners... Poor Grammar, but that can be overlooked.


Its not hate & it certainly isn't bashing or insulting. You may not have insulted anyone (directly), but you come off as someone that appears as a Door Salesman trying to sell the Islamic Fighter Jet against the Evil Jews better known as: !srael

You mentioned that KSA had multiple times revoked ties with Qatar. I respectfully corrected you.

You spoke about Muslim Nations being against one another, yet when I questioned if you were aware how many Muslim Nations recognised !srael - you did not get back on my answer. I'll give you a hint: Abraham Accords

Young man, I have a better understanding of "Greater Israel" - long before you were even concieved.


Great. Maybe you can put that on a Bumper Sticker & paste on Auto Rickshaws & Trucks all across Pakistan.


Why thank you for that History lesson. I completely forgot that I actually lived through that era ...

You do know that "Greater Israel" only built the courage for that idea after: Operation Opera


Okay Engineer Mirza...


You know..., I think its best we send you to KSA - to represent the Islamic Republic of Pakistan & the Islamic Brotherhood Nations

You are what the World has been waiting for this whole time.


You know, even with your spelling errors - you'd be PERFECT for Pakistan Aeronautical Complex. Their brochures are already full of spelling mistakes. Atleast you can give them some new material to promote this "potent plane with vast variety of roles"

Hey,

Apart from qatar and ksa relations on which I admit I was wrong. If it matters to you apologies for that i was wrong about it. But what else have I said that is wrong ?

English is not my mother tongue and writing on mobile is sometimes difficult. But I do my best to convey my views.

I am forum member since 2008 in defence.pk I can assure you im not that young nor old I have still to learn and I try to know as much as I can.

Iran iraq war, pak and afghan is example of muslims confronting in modern warfare also yemen issue. I know these and also algeria morocco these countries are muslim and have rivalry i know some. But its off topic. I simply ment what is good for future of ksa airforce. Its my firm belief ksa will have problem operating f15 against israel in future.

Why cant we talk about jf 17 for ksa. The thread is about jf17 fighter jet.

1. Is ksa free from threat from israel in future ?

2. Will f15 work as should against israel if it comes to that ?

3.Why there is no chance of israel against ksa in future ?

4. Wont jet like jf17 from a country who wont sanction it benefit ksa ?
Block 3 with aesa, pl15, awacs support, ashm role, aa role, a2g role, standoff role in 1 package.

Please ignore my post if you think its still silly reply to you.

@Dreamer i was wrong about ksa and qatar i have corrected that part. Apologies for that. I have no excuses it was a mistake i made.

 

[Trailer23]

Iran iraq war, pak and afghan is example of muslims confronting in modern warfare also yemen issue. I know these and also algeria morocco these countries are muslim and have rivalry i know some.

Iran-Iraq War is a thing of the past. It had more to do with Saddam than anything else.

PAK-Afghan... seriously?!! I don't even consider those nut jobs as Muslims.

And don't you dare even attempt to sell that 'Afghans are our Muslim Brothers' b.s. You're talking to someone who's spent time in Kabul - among them.

Morocco & Algeria have rivalry perhaps on the Soccer field, but are against one another on the basis of Land. One would imagine you would be familiar with the reason since you being from Pakistan outta be quite familiar to such a thing in relation to our good neighbor.

I simply ment what is good for future of ksa airforce. Its my firm belief ksa will have problem operating f15 against israel in future.

Why cant we talk about jf 17 for ksa. The thread is about jf17 fighter jet.

How about you let the Saudis' decide what is truly good for them.

You say, it is your 'firm belief ksa will have problem operating F-15's against !srael in the future...

Q. Why would KSA require to use them against !srael ?

You can stand in front of the mirror and have decent conversation with your reflection about why JF-17 is good for KSA.

1. Is ksa free from threat from israel in future ?

2. Will f15 work as should against israel if it comes to that ?

3.Why there is no chance of israel against ksa in future ?

4. Wont jet like jf17 from a country who wont sanction it benefit ksa ?
Block 3 with aesa, pl15, awacs support, ashm role, aa role, a2g role, standoff role in 1 package.

Ans 1. Not Certain which Threat you are referring to. That being said, !srael knows all to well, if it (ever) made the strategic mistake of attacking KSA, it would face the Wrath of every Muslim Nation on the Planet. One phone call by KSA & it will be lights out.

!srael knows the Holy Land is the Redline for ALL Muslims​

Oh & in case you're wondering, there isn't a damn thing Big Brother in Washington DC that is going to do to stop it.

Ans 2. Good Lord... What is your obsession with the Saudi F-15's & !srael?

Young man..., you would be surprised where an unmarked !sraeli Gov't Aircraft has landed in the dark nite & then parked at the far end of the Airport so that no one could notice its presence.

E-Yessss. If you're even ½ smart - you'll figure that out.

Ans 3. I highly recommend that you read Ans. 1 (again).

Ans 4. Good Lord. You make the JF-17 sound as if its the F-35. Oh wait, I forgot - KSA is already getting the F-35, so why would it bother entertaining the JF-17 Block III with all its Bells & Whistles?

Tell you what..., instaed of you trying to convince me or anyone here...

...why don't you write to the KSA's Ministery of Defence to give up on the idea of F-35's & go for the Block III !

The thread is about jf17 fighter jet.

Yes, the Thread is about JF-17.

But the whole JF-17 & Saudi Arabia conversation is merely about loaning our Jets to them. For which Operation...? I don't know, but I make a few guesses.

 

[m52k85]

At the business level, Factory 132 is also one of CATIC's suppliers.

PAF placed an order with PAC for the purchase of JF-17B3 aircraft.
PAC breaks down the order, manufactures some of the components itself, and places purchase orders for the remaining parts with CATIC.
CATIC broke down PAC's purchase order and placed separate purchase orders with different suppliers. For example, Factory 132 produces load-bearing structural parts, CETC produces radars, and the Air-to-Air Missile Institute produces PL-15E missiles, etc.

Factory 132 then placed purchase orders with raw material suppliers. The raw materials are then forged into JF-17 load-bearing structural components.​

CETC procures parts from different component suppliers and then assembles them into radars.​

The Air-to-Air Missile Institute procures parts from different component suppliers and then assembles them into PL-15E missiles.​

Some items are delivered to PAC centrally by CATIC. Other items can be delivered directly to PAC by the suppliers, but CATIC remains responsible for the business aspects of the transaction.

This is a vast industrial system. However, in China, only CATIC has a direct business relationship with PAC.
Other suppliers may know that the end customer is PAC, or they may only know CATIC; some suppliers may not even know that the products they manufacture are ultimately used in the JF-17 fighter jet. They manufacture a wide variety of products in their daily operations and do not work exclusively on projects related to the JF-17 aircraft.

Thanks, but that does not answer the question I asked: If factory 132 has moved on to more important projects, as you say, and is too busy with these new projects, then who will manufacture those load bearing structural components for future Jf-17B3 orders, which PAC can not due the various reason (e.g. cost of buying the heavy forges/ machines) you have already mentioned?

 

[SaadH]

This sloppy Telegraph article says Jf17 excelled against the Rafale but it was actually the J10/PL15 combo.

It excelled by not getting shot down by Rafales and was part of the hi-low mix that bested by a country mile a formidable 70 aircraft air armada thrown up by one of the biggest and best armed air forces in the world.

It didn't shoot down any Rafales but you can't understate the fact that it was part of the same air battle and came out unscathed unlike at least 4 maybe more Rafales.

 

[Jango007]

It excelled by not getting shot down by Rafales and was part of the hi-low mix that bested by a country mile a formidable 70 aircraft air armada thrown up by one of the biggest and best armed air forces in the world.

It didn't shoot down any Rafales but you can't understate the fact that it was part of the same air battle and came out unscathed unlike at least 4 maybe more Rafales.

Not to mention its heroic attack against S400 battery while facing some of the hmost heavily defended border both in the air and SAMs…

 

[Oscar]

I don't know if View attachment 172408 articles are considered as "Articles" at all. What is interesting are the comments by Members, that seem to vanish after 24hrs.

I took the liberty of taking a screenshot of the 9 Comments.

Clearly the individual who wrote this piece is frustrated that the JF-17 is getting so much attention by a number of Nations in less than a month and I suppose all that can be attributed to is the f-up of their: Operation Tandoor

I take it the Author is upset why no Nation (even a 3rd Class one like Armania and/or Philippines) is not interested in their TEJAs

How Pakistani-Origin Reporters Are Overselling the JF-17 Despite Its Poor Combat Record

View attachment 172409
Even their Ai-generated images suck (ass)​

View attachment 172410

Note: The Contents of the article aren't important as the Title itself is a dead give away. What's important are the views of some Indians that now coming to...

@RescueRanger @Oscar @AeronautIR @Areesh @Bilal @Dalit @Distant_Observer @Hakikat ve Hikmet @Maarkhoor @Master Chief @Mighty_Dragon_Strike @pwfi @r3alist @Reichmarshal @SiliconBit (silicon0000) @SteppeWolff @Starlord @TAC @TOPGUN @TopGun786 @Truth Seeker @UndercoverJIX @Vapnope @Vortex @Yasser76 @hasssanali8998

میں نے کہا تھا

برا لگے یا اچھا
ڈھیٹ اپنے گلے سے کھولتا ہوّا نیزہ گزر دیں گین مگر پاکستان کی کسی چیز کی تعریف نہ کریں گیں

جہاز تو دور کی بات ہے ۶۸ سال سے یہ پاکستانی کریکٹر کی تعریف کوئی طنز یا برائی لگائے بغیر بیان نہیں کر سکتے

انکا زہر جب سمجھ جاو گے تو اسرائیلی نفرت اور مکر کے ٹکر آنے لگے گی

 

[Tariq Habib Afridi]

Ans 1. Not Certain which Threat you are referring to. That being said, !srael knows all to well, if it (ever) made the strategic mistake of attacking KSA, it would face the Wrath of every Muslim Nation on the Planet. One phone call by KSA & it will be lights out.

!srael knows the Holy Land is the Redline for ALL Muslims​

Oh & in case you're wondering, there isn't a damn thing Big Brother in Washington DC that is going to do to stop it.

I was going to give the same explanation, but you summarized it well. No non‑Muslim state would attack Saudi Arabia unless all other Muslim states, along with their populations, were dealt with first.

 

[Psyko70]

Iran-Iraq War is a thing of the past. It had more to do with Saddam than anything else.

PAK-Afghan... seriously?!! I don't even consider those nut jobs as Muslims.

And don't you dare even attempt to sell that 'Afghans are our Muslim Brothers' b.s. You're talking to someone who's spent time in Kabul - among them.

Morocco & Algeria have rivalry perhaps on the Soccer field, but are against one another on the basis of Land. One would imagine you would be familiar with the reason since you being from Pakistan outta be quite familiar to such a thing in relation to our good neighbor.


How about you let the Saudis' decide what is truly good for them.

You say, it is your 'firm belief ksa will have problem operating F-15's against !srael in the future...

Q. Why would KSA require to use them against !srael ?

You can stand in front of the mirror and have decent conversation with your reflection about why JF-17 is good for KSA.


Ans 1. Not Certain which Threat you are referring to. That being said, !srael knows all to well, if it (ever) made the strategic mistake of attacking KSA, it would face the Wrath of every Muslim Nation on the Planet. One phone call by KSA & it will be lights out.

!srael knows the Holy Land is the Redline for ALL Muslims​

Oh & in case you're wondering, there isn't a damn thing Big Brother in Washington DC that is going to do to stop it.

Ans 2. Good Lord... What is your obsession with the Saudi F-15's & !srael?

Young man..., you would be surprised where an unmarked !sraeli Gov't Aircraft has landed in the dark nite & then parked at the far end of the Airport so that no one could notice its presence.

E-Yessss. If you're even ½ smart - you'll figure that out.

Ans 3. I highly recommend that you read Ans. 1 (again).

Ans 4. Good Lord. You make the JF-17 sound as if its the F-35. Oh wait, I forgot - KSA is already getting the F-35, so why would it bother entertaining the JF-17 Block III with all its Bells & Whistles?

Tell you what..., instaed of you trying to convince me or anyone here...

...why don't you write to the KSA's Ministery of Defence to give up on the idea of F-35's & go for the Block III !


Yes, the Thread is about JF-17.

But the whole JF-17 & Saudi Arabia conversation is merely about loaning our Jets to them. For which Operation...? I don't know, but I make a few guesses.

You are right. You summarized it well for me to grasp in end. Ill stop with worry of KSA and israel attacking it. You are write ksa wont be attacked. Ill take that back.

1. just 1 clarification otherwise it will be marked on me. I Think same about afghans as you do. So please dont assume about me. I just mentioned i know lil bit about muslim nations that fought each other so i mentioned afghan. Never considered them as brothers to pakistan.

 

[Michael]

Thanks, but that does not answer the question I asked: If factory 132 has moved on to more important projects, as you say, and is too busy with these new projects, then who will manufacture those load bearing structural components for future Jf-17B3 orders, which PAC can not due the various reason (e.g. cost of buying the heavy forges/ machines) you have already mentioned?

Currently, Factory 132 is actually responsible for manufacturing these load-bearing structural components.

1. PAC could purchase the relevant machinery, and Factory 132 would transfer the corresponding molds to PAC, allowing PAC to produce the parts itself. ------This is difficult. The machinery is expensive, and PAC's utilization efficiency would be low. The efficiency of these machines will only be realized when Pakistan's entire industrial system reaches a certain level of development.
2. PAC could adjust its procurement plan. Increase the quantity of parts purchased in each batch. This would allow Factory 132 to produce more parts after each mold change, which would then be delivered to PAC. ------ Changing molds on heavy machinery is a complex process, and when the associated time and labor costs are spread across more products, the cost per product will decrease accordingly.

The JF-17 subsystems are not only used in the JF-17 fighter jet project; they are also used in other products. Therefore, PAC's production situation does not affect these subsystems.